i agree, if you look at Odegaard, he started with us looking really fresh and able to create things but he's now been completely neutered and that has to be Arteta micro-managing him into a boxQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
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i agree, if you look at Odegaard, he started with us looking really fresh and able to create things but he's now been completely neutered and that has to be Arteta micro-managing him into a boxQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
i'm not such a fan - if people are going to say it's easy for Pep to do well at Citeh and Barca, doesn't the same apply to Zidane at Real?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
:good:Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
I am genuinely worried for us right now for the exact reason you raise there: who do we trust to make the next appointment? Vinnai? A man who got grifted by a fake Chinese car company and didn’t have the integrity to resign after the ESL fiasco. Edu? a TD with worrying links to a super agent, who needs to share his role with a manager because he’s either not up to it or isn’t trusted. The board, aka Stan, Josh, Tim Lewis and Lord Harris? Because that’s it - that right there is the entire leadership structure of this club! And if KSE are genuinely considering selling then they’re not going to give any kind of shit about fixing it. Terrifying.
Honestly, I’d love to believe that we’ve been planning ahead for this, and already have a carefully considered list of candidates drawn up, but I think we all know that the approach to finding a new coach is going to be to pick up the phone to as many agents as possible and see who they can send us.
No doubt Arteta will be in charge in next season. I don’t even think he’s under any pressure or being held to account if I’m honest. That speaks volumes to the absolute mess at executive level.
I suspect next season will be make or break for him with the fans back, he’s been very lucky to avoid that heat from the fans. I imagine he will be gone by Christmas if it’s a repeat of this seasons start.
I don’t see much prospect of a coaching change until fans are back in numbers.
When they are, it will get very ugly because the only change we are likely to see will be that forced by the fan base.
100% he overthinks things. You can hear it with some of the things he says, like a couple of days ago when he suggested that Martinelli works better with a passer like Xhaka behind him at LB?! Sure, if you have a clever runner and potential goal-scorer like Martinelli, then supply will be an advantage, but you can’t allow your thinking to become so siloed that that’s the only option you see. And I think he does that a lot - he’s so focussed on combination-play that he’s become a little obsessed with complimentary pairings, and ends up constantly tinkering with the side to adapt to absentees...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I wonder if the club are quickly rethinking their stance on allowing 10k fans back for hte final game of the season.
Could be a bloodbath :lol:
It starts at the very top, with Stan and family in charge there will be no accountability for the employees below them, they (Stan & Co) simply don't and won't give a shit unless the club starts losing money.
The team selection, tactics and performance are a reflection of the manager. We all saw what happened last night, the players don't appear to believe in what Arteta's trying to do and the performance highlighted that.
I like Arteta as a person but it was a massive risk taking on a manager who had never managed any team, never mind a club like Arsenal.
Where this will all end I have no idea, what I do know is that unless Arsenal is owned by someone who actually cares for what Arsenal stands for as a club, it's ambitions and it's fan then nothing will change.
The executive structure should be CEO (Vinnai) > Technical Director (Edu) > Manager (Arteta), but can you honestly see Vinnai or Edu standing up to Arteta? He's clearly the dominant voice out of the three. The first moves we make have to be upgrading those first two - until we have someone competent at the top any manager we bring in will be totally free to call the shots with no standards, accountability or opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
If Arteta survives the summer then the start of next season is going to be really ugly. Anything less than a fast start and the fans will be on him straightaway, and, given the sheer number of personnel changes we're looking at, that fast start seems massively unlikely...
You can actually understand it from the perspective of Arsenal heirarchy why Arteta won't be sacked. Firstly it was their call to appoint him and make him manager - and I reckon Arteta was in the frame even when Emery was appointed. They will be reluctant to admit their error, and trash their investment in him. Second - the club is in a shit storm from top to bottom. In a perverse way I can see why retaining Arteta at least prevents yet further instability. Lastly, I'm not surprised that they, like the manager, have no plan B, and I'm not sure who could be recruited that would not also present a risk in terms of lack of experience managing at the 'top level' (parentheses deliberate), or what 'top manager' would want to preside over a declining club with no European Football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72
They will figure that he can't do worse than he has done this season, and gamble further on him pulling us back into Europa league contention next season with some Summer recruitment.
What is deeply worrying, apart from the obvious issues with Arteta from the outside, are the noises from within the club that he has established a set up of similarly crap or inexperienced coaches that only dance to the manager's tune, and that certain players are deeply disenchanted with him.
It is so typically Arsenal to ignore the clear evidence that Arteta is out of his depth and continue hoping for a miracle that wont come. Bad times. :sulk:
The recruitment even with European football has been terrible, so god knows what kind of trash we’re going to waste money on this summer.
I hope the fans who turn up to the Brighton game tear this lot apart.
Arteta won't be sacked because everyone above him is either clueless or untrustworthy when it comes to footballing decisions.
First step has to be getting someone like a Rangnik (suggestions welcome) into Edu's role - then you actually have a fighting chance of making the correct coaching appointments and recruiting useful players.
That probably wouldn't happen in time to make any decision on Arteta before the season started, even if we got the ball rolling now, but I'd certainly use that appointment (and this disastrous campaign) as justification to bust him back down to head coach again - there really is no need for a "manager" if the guy doing Edu's job is competent, nor do we want one. Aside from the fact that we don't want the guy running the team to have that much power, it just creates too many conflicts and grievances with contract situations - the coach should be utterly removed from that side of things so he can maintain his relationship with the players.
Or just don't turn up at all - that would send a really powerful message after a year of being kept away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Or join me watching Brentford FC :)Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
They are building a new stadium and everything! What could go wrong?............oh yeah :(
They’ll probably still announce an audience of 59k+Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
Look! Do you want a world class stadium or a world class team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
You can't have both, greedy! :sulk:
Building the stadium was absolutely the right thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
There's nothing good left at the club. A handful of young players, maybe, but they'll be ruined or they'll leave.
As with anything touched by vulture capitals, everything good is eventually consumed. It's not just down to Arsenal. The PL, Sky, the FA, the media, the owners, the players, government and ESPECIALLY the fans have all contributed to this. The reason for playing the game has been ripped out and replaced with the profit motive - nothing else. Even in chavland and Manchester the ultimate goal is personal gain for the owners. And the fans are moaning now, but they all signed up for the Sky subscriptions and tuned in on transfer day to worship the transfer clock.
The answer, in football terms, is so simple it's painful. Put the kids in and let them play, win, lose or draw. These kids aren't old enough to be fully jaded and compromised yet. They'll still remember what it took to even get a shot. That's what we need to harness. The enthusiasm and, to a degree, the naivety. The older players don't give a fuck. They are just turning up to the office and going through the motions, and it has been like that for years. There's no penalty if they don't pay it back on the pitch for those horrific wages they feel entitled to. They'll sit on their arse if need be, why should they care? They earn stupid amounts whether they play or not.
You let people like Kroenke into the game and the outcome is inevitable.
In a business sense yes, we had to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
And the fact we are so poor right now isn't because of The Emirates, we'd be equally mediocre were we still at Highbury.
It does feel like we lost the soul of the club a bit but I guess businesses don't have souls, so... :(
In a business sense. And therein lies the death of football. You take something that's exhilarating and try to make it more based on financials alone. You can't put the culture and experiences linked to Highbury on a spreadsheet, but you can make a crude and vulgar calculation and say that all the success (tangibles and intangibles) that attracted 40K people into the seats and a waiting list of 20-30K day-trippers translates to higher profits. Sensible, in financial terms. But when you then make the new stadium the very centre of existence for the club, as we did, everything else takes a back seat. The stadium was one of the factors that made Arsenal less. Plenty of clubs do okay with 40K stadiums. There was never any hope of the levels of investment that would have filled up an 80K stadium on CL final night (like Real or Barca), so the whole stadium project was about paying bums on seats and profits, rather than a footballing progression for the club. Maybe that was not the intention, but that's how it worked out. Pretty sure it was the intention though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Quote:
on that being Smith Rowe's first of many Premier League goals...
It says a lot in terms of where we are. He's having an incredible season ever since he started to play in December. But he's scoring his first Premier League goal. An incredible season for a No 10 of Arsenal means he needs to score 15 goals and give 10 assists. Then you are right up there with the top guys in Europe and in the league. He's got the ability to do it but he hasn't done it. We need to stay calm with him, give him the right support and step by step I think he will be getting there.
on Willian scoring his first Arsenal goal...
Willian has done it in the past, that's the big difference. He's done it for many years and has achieved everything in the game. Somehow this season we haven't managed to get the best out of him. He had some spells where we could see highlights of things he can do and today was a good example of that.
What the fuck is Arteta thinking? ESR has probably been one of our best players but Arteta decides to talk him down yet with Willian, who has been shit all season, its ok because he’s done it in the past.
Yes, strange comment about ESR who has been consistently excellent, one of the few positives from the season. If I was ESR that wouldn't exactly make me feel appreciated.
It’s not hte first time Arteta has said something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
When Pepe got his red card against Leeds, Arteta went ballistic in the media at him (it was a stupid red card so at the time, i could understand the anger) but then 3 days later Xhaka gets an even stupider red card and Arteta says nothing in the media.
It just plays into the idea he has favourites
If you want those kind of no.10 stats from him then maybe play him as a 10 consistently, and stop relegating him to LW to accommodate a loanee or have him fill in as a false 9 when there’s actual strikers available?
Also, just a thought, but maybe play him with strikers who can actually score if you want more assists from him, and strikers that he can play off if you want more goals?
he's a shocking manager and needs o go
if they leave him in charge you can forget about next season
in theory next season could be a real opportunity - with no European football we could focus on the league and on building a proper game plan and getting players used to their positions with time to coach in between.
leave Arteta there and we can look forward to bad results, a sacking mid-season and then a new manager trying to effect repairs while trying, most likely, to stave off relegation...
Couldn’t resist defending his big hope Willian could he. His continued involvement and poor form is one of the reasons our season never got going.
Arteta can do one and take this bum with him.
They're not sacking him - if it was seriously on anyone's agenda then they would have done it after the EL exit. Why keep him around for another 4 meaningless games when you could get the ball rolling straightaway? There's no plan there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
i know, i have literally zero hope it will happen, this club is rudderless, overseen by fools and f****dQuote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Maybe the protests against Kroenke should be extended to Arteta and Edu fuck it ALL of them!
The protests probably need to turn on Vinnai and Edu if we want any kind of immediate change. KSE won’t be swayed by any demands to sell - they’ll do whatever they want in their own time - and there’s not much point in sacking Arteta until there’s someone in place who’s actually qualified (and trustworthy enough) to hire his replacement. Focus on those two and the Kroenkes might actually give it to us as a compromise...
Poch! :ninja:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
no thanks, things are bad enough alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Poch is a massive upgrade on what we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
a moaning, overrated, face-you-want-to-punch spud reject?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
like i said, no thanks
Has he been sacked already?
No at Arsenal we like our wounds to fester till gangrene has just about set in....even then we will wait to see if there will be a miraculous upturn in the putrid sore.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible