Are you new here?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
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Are you new here?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
That one comment seemed real, even though you were lying about so much other stuff.Quote:
I’m jaded by it all.
I can work wit that snippet although it would be too much effort to o so right now. There's so much to cover before we could reach level ground.
Still fishing for fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Seriously, the amount of abuse Letters cops on here is ridiculous and unnecessary. He never says anything that outrageously unreasonable, yet seems to regularly face outright hostility. Sometimes it may be a little facetious or reductive, but as he says, he's jaded by Arsenal (and football), so coming from that perspective, it's understandable that extremely in depth analysis may not be the focus.
Continuing to blame Wenger for everything that's gone wrong at the club certainly seems more extreme and unnuanced.
Anyway, we've always got Twitter for random abuse and intolerance of opinions.
FUCK YOU - I hope you took that in the way it was meant. Which is as bad as you think it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsi
Fucking sycophant. Grow a set.
Yeah cos a man who spent 20 years here will have no lingering effect just 3 years after he left. Totally logical. Many of the stupid players we have here today were bought by him. Yet he isnt to blame for anything. If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point. Dont forget HE brought Arteta here. A walking clusterfuck of a player, before wenger bought his even worse clone called Xhaka.Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsi
Well that’s 2 lies back to back. In a previous post in this thread I admitted some things I got wrong. And it was a lot longer than 6 months. But I was certainly late to the party - that’s one of the things I have admitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I was right about some things and wrong about others.Quote:
Yet still espouses the notion that he was right becuae the next 3 hires didnt fix the rot that set in as far back at 2008 in my mind.
I have outlined that in this thread too :shrug:
The rest of your post is just an ad hominem attack. As Gary has suggested, if you can’t respond to what is being said then yes, don’t bother responding :good:
cricketsi :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
(But no, I wasn’t)
I dont respond thats just it. So the ad hominen is the best you will get....Damn! Ive responded
It's not bad at all, just unnecessary. Abusing random people on the internet is the norm, I get that, but it would be nice if it was a little less normalised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Of course there's plenty that's his legacy, but I personally think the board and structures that should have existed (or should have existed) above him are more deserving of our ongoing ire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
It wasn’t aimed specifically at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
You have been here long enough to appreciate that Cripps and Zim are probably rolling there eyes wondering where you were when they needed you the most..... :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsi
Honestly, I can't help but laugh on the hypocrisy in full display...but yeah Letters is a big boy and the resident bully, he'll be ok.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
don't expect the world's biggest conspiracy theorist to believe that for a second, it's obviousy all another plot by the lizard people to get at him, because of course that's their whole aim in life... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
Which is fair. But some of the people saying this are the ones who were saying that any new manager would do better pretty much immediatelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
:shrug:
How do you define proper?Quote:
If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point.
The manager we got might not have been a Klopp, but he’s won about a million Europa Leagues in a row (good of him to take a year off when he was with us <_<).
And actually, his first season with us did show some promise, it looked like a decent enough base to build on. It all went to shit after that.
##Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
:blink:Quote:
and the resident bully
Just seen some match stats. We had 1 shot, not on target. And 0 corners :lol: :doh:
Technically Arteta is the first manager we had since Wenger left. Emery was the coach. Who couldn't get the players he wanted and got saddled with Pepe when he asked for Zaha. Arteta was given free reign after winning g the FA cup and we have seen the expensive tripe he has brought in.
You do yourself no favours on here. Never analyse the game the players bought or even the new managers who might come in. Your sole purpose it seems is to seek vindication for Wenger being sacked even though you agreed he stayed too long in the end. Who does that?. Who seeks to be right when over a decade he has vociferously defended the man who kept bringing us lower and lower.
I really don’t follow football enough to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I even didn’t bring him up in this thread. I was just responding to someone who did :shrug:Quote:
Your sole purpose it seems is to seek vindication for Wenger.
Let's start by dealing with the facts, Arteta is a novice, he is learning on the job at what was previously one of the biggest and most important clubs in the country. Arteta has been given a very sizeable budget and plenty of time to shape the team. He has failed, the first half of last season was enough cause for concern, our current predicament is shameful. Arteta has absolutely no credit left, he can't turn this around because he doesn't have the experience or know how, he also shouldn't be given a penny more to spend. His position is untenable IMO, he has to go now.
You know what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I’d just like it to stop - including comments like yours that I’ve just quoted.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I think that’s something we can pretty much all agree on.
It always felt like a gamble but I was willing to give him a go. He talks a good game, I basically quite like him. But he feels massively out of his depth.
Is that actually true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Xhaka was signed by Wenger (but Arteta extended his contract lets not forget), Elneny & Kolisinac seem to be on the way out. Chambers & holding were also wenger signings as well as Auba & Lacazette but their contracts extended by other managers not Wenger.
Bellerin came through the youth academy was a a brilliant player up until his ACL injury (i cant remember if that was Wenger last season or emery first) but he has gone backwards since wenger left.
However, Luiz, Willian, Pepe, Partey, tieney, Cedric, Mari, Saliba, white, odegard, cellabos, torriera, all signed after wenger. Cant be blamed on him & some of those players are good so should be playing well if managed properly. Luiz was rubbish yet Arteta decided to extend his contract, less said about willian.
Even sides like Burnley, Norwich etc who fight relegation look like they have a structure in place. Their players are not hte best yet they look solid in defence at times & coherent in attack. Arsenal do not. How can sides like that look more organised than us be blamed on wenger? It is solely on the manager and his lack of ability
You must have missed the part where Im blaming Arteta for being a crap manager and keeping the crap players that existed before him and not selling the ones who could be sold and giving them new contracts plus buying even more crap players. What i dont accept is that Wenger had little to do with this. Hope that clears it up for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Clearly there were a few issues with Wenger in his last few years but he still finished in European places & won fa cup in 2017. Since then, the side has just fallen to new lows each season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Perhaps structurally there are some issues but things that cannot be blamed on wenger are:
- lack of structure & tactics during games
- extending contracts of people like Luiz or buying willian
- managing to take a golden boot winner to couldn’t hit a barn door in space of year
- losing three games in a row with piss poor management
Most of these players didnt play under Wenger, and anyway it was 3 years ago, the club has spent millions since he left on players who should be good enough for European football. Partey, odegard, torriea etc but have been so poorly managed they have made no impact.
How can we keep blaming wenger for these shocking performances?
by the way, this thread ought really to be called 'By when will Arteta be sacked?' :sulk:
Wenger started it and the people who are in charge now have finished it.
It’s all collective, this club has been on a slippery slope for a very long time. The blame game is meaningless, there are a whole host of people equally responsible for this mess. A football club that has lost all ambition and sight of what is important.
You really do wonder who at the club cares a jot about it, who there has any emotional connection - i suppose Edu and Arteta might as former players but they're just kids, no-one in the club management or ownership gets itQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
As for the players the kids care, but the older players are c***s like Kola and Xhaka or jaded like Laca and Auba
Look how Abramovic runs Chelski, he knows what he and the fans want and he gets it done - yes they've more money than us but we've a bunch of really promising young players and we should sack Arteta right now and get a good established manager in
Another loser and this club really will be finished, wr've got one more chance at this or it's decades in the wilderness for us
By all accounts Xhaka was ready to leave yet somehow he’s ended up with a new deal. We’ve been trying to flog Kola for probably a year but he’s in the starting 11 against the champions. Spent 30m on a CB who isn’t deemed worthy enough of the squad and sent on loan for 2 years.
It’s difficult to fathom what’s going on at this club. Run by absolute fucking donuts.
Though the blame for today's shitstorm is all down to Arteta with his medicore abilities, we're not going to solve the fundamental problems with Arsenal when we can't be objective and look at how/who laid the foundation for this lack of shame and the generally uncompetitive nature we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
AW's biggest sin was trying to redefine the wheel, or more plainly, selling to goonerdom a new definition of what "success" is for our football club.
After the invincibles, the only thing that mattered to him was Europe, he was the first manager in the EPL to stop taking the league seriously and look at it as only a vehicle to qualifying for the CL.... his first major redefinition of "success" in AFC lexicon.
Then with the rise of Chelsea and other moneybags in football, he started coming up with the crap that any success they had was tainted because they bought it while teams like us had always achieved ours by "doing things the right way", a blatant factual lie.
He then doubled down on his CL lunacy, by then selling to us that winning domestic trophies were not important and that finishing top 2 (which later became top 4 ) every year was like winning a trophy. If there is a single statement I can blame for killing Aresnal FC, it was this one.
Then other rubbish like project youth would be the only way to secure our future, over-30 players have little value (go tell Messi and Ronaldo that) and so much other self serving crap.
In fact for so long all of us kept believing that the only success that would make sense was for us to win the CL with team youth playing a poor man's version of Barcalike football that AW had gotten a craze over....anything else, even a domestic treble would mean nothing to us.
I remember being so ashamed of our 2005 FA cup victory, mainly because we were second best to Man U for the whole game and literally just defended the whole thing out. Anytime I remember some of the crap I said that day and for months later, I feel so ashamed that I as a grown man was also one of the gullible gooners AW had infected with his narcisim.
The fact remains, that to be successful in sport, you need to compete and the true definition of competing is giving it ALL YOU HAVE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE and never imposing pseudo morals on yourself or tying your hands behind your back with any silly restrictions.
We were NEVER a poor club so we should have never acted as one... NEVER.
Spending money and achieving success in sport have always been intertwined.
Have you asked yourself why a country like the USA dominates competitive athletics. Lets take sprinting for the sake of this discussion and call it a black sport.
USA has only 40M black people, while Africa has over a billion, yet USA has dominated something as basic as sprinting for almost 80 years now. Or do we really think the fastest black people were all shipped to the USA?
We were NEVER Barcelona, we should have never tried to play like them. I mean English football has its own strengths and we were the poster boy for it at a particular time.
Tippy tappy never even dominated the CL, as Barca still got beaten more than enough times, especially by a Chelsea who became the true heirs of the early AW style.
I could go on and on, but I'm getting tired.
Our psyche as a sporting competitive club is broken and we all know who broke it.
I mean how can we, as proud gooners, be discussing if sacking a manager who has ZERO goals in 3 games and a -9 goal difference is worth it ?
A Rookie who has no documented history of success? Come on guys, what top club would stand for this kind of crap
Nah, it's a fair cop. You are random in terms of the amount of times I talk to you. So I apologise. You just took fire because you stood in front of the target.Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsi
You're so wrong about Letters though. Maybe because you aren't here much you don't see what he is. Either way, wrong target, misplaced fire, sorry about that.
So coy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You're right. I'll stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t
Do me a favour though. Behind the scenes, could you ask the main instigator to have a think about his participation here? You know what I mean.
The whole style of Wengerball which killed the club and is in direct contrast to the football that won us titles is down to one man. The cotton wool players. Down to one man. The stupid mismanagement of contracts, putting the privileged interests of pampered players above the requirements of the club. Down to one man. The awful failure to recognise the steady decline and the willingness to cover it all up with bullshit, the speciality of one man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Nothing has changed since because the very foundations of the club were destroyed.
By one man.
That's about it, on the head. One man baked second best status into a top club. And a second best attitude in competitive eventually means last place.Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
It's so weird that some people just can't see what happened in front of their eyes and will always find an alternative reality to dwell in.
I’ll always have time for Wenger - the man served up the best Arsenal sides and the best football I’ll probably ever see - but he 100% played his part in where we find ourselves now. For me, by far his biggest sin was the disastrous “socialist” wage structure he implemented - we’re still counting the cost of that today. If it were just the decline in coaching and standards that he oversaw then I think we could have bounced back from that pretty quickly on the playing side. What we haven’t been able to do is free ourselves from his bloated, overpaid squad. Everyone who comes in is stuck with the same group of problem players, and every year that goes by they give less of a F and get harder to motivate. By the time they get to their final years they’re not even pretending to be interested.
Let’s be honest, all of the stuff about the second best attitude comes from the owners. Sure, Wenger sowed the seed, but the Kroenkes allowed it. They were happy with it. Why was the manager even allowed to define what success looked like for the club? Of course he’s going to say that whatever he’s achieved is good enough and that he’s hit his targets if you let him mark his own paper. Where were the owners? Where was the the CEO / MD? Don’t forget, we had a 10 month period after Edelman left where we didn’t have anyone running the club at all! That should tell you everything you need to know about KSE’s expectations. Where was the DoF? We didn’t even have one of those under Wenger because he didn’t want one! Again, why was that even the manager’s choice? Of course he’s going to veto the creation of a role that oversees his and holds him to account.
And now Wenger’s gone we’re making all the same mistakes again. The owners are absent. The CEO is a ghost. The TD has been humiliated and demoted and is basically a glorified scout. And the manager is once again being allowed to decide and define everything.
I’ve lost any hope of the Kroenke’s selling up, but can we at least hire a proper CEO? I’m sure Vinnai is a very nice man - he seems affable enough - but he got grifted by a fake Chinese car company ffs! This is the man we decided should be running the club! Seriously, what does he even do? I think he’s stuck his head above the parapet twice since he took the role: once to proudly announce that he was promoting Arteta to manager (and effectively hobbling the TD at the same time) - slow clap for that; and once to get on his knees and apologise for trying to fuck over the whole of football with the ESL.
Give us that at least, KSE - a decent CEO who can then appoint a decent TD / DoF, and reset that role to sit above the manager’s again. Do that and you can fuck off to your half a million acre ranch in peace.
Let’s not forget Edu and what a disaster he’s been. Seems like a shady crook along with his circle of pals who’ve got their dirty hands on the club.
Fair play, you guys totally called it about Arteta. He initially impressed me in his first 8 months, and I’ve tried to be fair with him since then - give him the benefit of the doubt when I’ve seen legitimate reasons that have caused legitimate problems - but these team selections are fucking killing me now, they’re absolutely killing me!
He lost me after Villarreal, but even then I left a door open for him - with a good preseason and his own players he could have won me back. What we’ve seen so far this season has been an absolute disgrace though. It’s not the results - I could have seen us losing any of those games, and I think most of us had mentally written off at least two of them - but I really have been taken aback by how unprepared we look.
His press conference before Brentford was shocking - first game of the season and he literally sucked all of the energy and all of the belief out of the team. We should have been buzzing, even with the news about Auba and Laca! And since then it’s just been really, really basic, obvious team selection errors. Not matching up Chelsea with 3 at the back. Playing Kolasinac and Cedric and Xhaka as our only defensive midfielder against City! Fuck me.
The absolute best case scenario for him here is that he’s gone full Mourinho and is deliberately tanking our lineups to make an unnecessary point about not getting all of the players he wanted. But even that just makes him a petulant, sulky, reckless child instead of a novice who is in way over his head - neither is a good look, and both should result in an immediate P45. Unfortunately I think we’re stuck with him for a while yet.
This is the big worry isn’t it? Who do we trust to hire Arteta’s replacement? The guy who holidays with our disgraced former Head of Football and a super agent? The guy who signed us up to a sponsorship deal with a fake car company? The owners? Maybe we could ask Arteta’s buddy, Mertesacker?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars