Good Bye RVP!

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Originally Posted by BOBN

you do know cesc was a defensive midfielder for barca youth yes? his hero is guardiola remember.

only season cesc looked competent in there was when he had flamini doing the work for 2 men (how tall was flamini btw? how tall was makalele?)

a central midfielder who cant do his fair share of defensive work or "compete physically" is useless to me, thats part of the reason im saying hes overrated, duh! theres never been a great CM who couldnt and there never will be


hang on, youre the one complaining about wenger moving him out of his best position and all that rubbish now youre telling me he should be allowed to focus on getting forward?

so let me get this straight, in the hurly-burly premier league you expected our manager to forsake a player who was prepared to graft/add solidarity and allow cesc to clog up valuable space in the engine room of the midfield so they he can spray his shytty little balls about? this is what you expected wenger to continue doing? and people wonder why we never won anything with cesc in the team, lol.

ps. xavi for one is a much harder worker than cesc so yes he could cut it in a midfield 2 with anyone, and hes done so before.

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He’s a deep laying playmaker, but he’s not a defensive midfielder. His job isn’t to protect the back and to sit. The role of the defensive midfielder has evolved over the years and the Spanish have always had deep laying central mid players that set up play. As for your Flamini example, his defensive attributes outweigh his attack. He contributes more defending then he does attacking. He’s short, but he has the engine to keep running and but tackles in.

You have very narrow mind when it comes to player positions and duties. You know the difference between a striker like Henry and Bergkamp right? Or a RVP and Hernandez or Berbatov? Same goes for centre back partnerships. The Merts and Kosienly combo works because they have different ways of defending and their styles complement each other. That’s how football works. It’s the same in the middle of the park. Cesc isn’t suited to playing in a 4-4-2 formation. Not with the combos we’ve seen.

Also, in a 4-3-3, with the players we had and how we started to struggle to move the ball around, it would have been better to play him further back with someone like Rosicky, Nasri or Wilshere ahead of him and Song holding behind him. Denilson was weak on offence and defence. You can have a CB that does his fair share of defensive work, but in this day and age, you need one player to focus fully on defending and not cross too far over the half way line when attacking. There is a balance. If we had someone to focus on defence and someone that was comfortable picking out passes and keeping the ball moving then I’d say it’s okay to move Cesc that forward. It’s what they’re doing at Barca because he has Xavi and Iniesta behind him and they can pick out his runs, while Busquets is behind all of them playing a more defensive role.

Besides the middle of the park, we had many things wrong with the squad. It lacked balance on the flanks as well. Check out what other teams are doing and you’ll see the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

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We'll have to agree to disagree there, mate. I didn't say Cesc played crap. Neither did I say that he didn't try. He is one of the world's best MF's and he was always going to offer more than many of our mediocre players. He is also pretty professional. But for me it was blatantly obvious from more or less the get go last season that his heart wasn't in it. He was way below what he was capable of and it didn't take a rocket scientist even at the time - let alone with hindsight - to figure out why. I think that his lack of commitment to the club was part of the reason why we imploded and I think that ultimately he stabbed us in the back.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Also, in a 4-3-3, with the players we had and how we started to struggle to move the ball around, it would have been better to play him further back with someone like Rosicky, Nasri or Wilshere ahead of him and Song holding behind him.

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nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

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Originally Posted by BOBN

nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

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Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.

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did he really say that?

he did you know :lol: :gp: this fraud got called out on his headless-chickenness within 6 weeks. just shows how clueless the average fan is really (how many arsenal fans called him the best midfielder in the world while he was here?)

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Originally Posted by BOBN

nope, you cant expect one man (song) to do the entire defensive work of the midfield. its fantasy.

a vertical line of 3 in midfield? too much FM dude.

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Who said anything about a vertical line?

Look at how Barca play.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/...diola-tactics/

In fact, check out that site and watch how a few other teams play and balance out their midfield. Not saying Cesc shouldn't defend, but you're talking about two lightweight players in a 4-4-2 formation. We'd never stand a chance. Every player has to chip in when it comes to defending but when it comes to attack you have to at least have one player that sits back on the half way line and covers just in case a move breaks down. That’s why teams are playing 5 man midfields these days.

We can go on and on about this, but it's just best to check out zonal marking look how other teams operate. Our balance was totally off back then. Right now, our central mid isn't working all that well, but we finally have quick wingers moving the ball forward and creating chances so we're not creating that much from the centre anymore. The way Song is picking out passes to our forwards is what I expect to see from Arteta and Ramsey. Xavi does it for Barca all the time. It's the sort of balance we should have had ages ago.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Guardiola: "Cesc is our least static midfielder, he goes forward a lot. That can cause disorganization, but he's working hard to adapt."

Cesc :lol:

Infecting imbalance since 2006.

Jk. Good player but glad he's gone.

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I blame his boss. You've seen the way Song goes too far forward in some games and the way Wenger gives Ramsey and co the freedom to move all over the place. Same goes for the Nasri and Arshavin have been managed. Wenger gives his players too much freedom.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I blame his boss. You've seen the way Song goes too far forward in some games and the way Wenger gives Ramsey and co the freedom to move all over the place. Same goes for the Nasri and Arshavin have been managed. Wenger gives his players too much freedom.

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Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.

I don't know about arshavin really...I just think it's more to do with him rather than management...just doesn't have the hunger. Irony, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Actually I remember a thread ages ago where I was saying Song was a limited player going forward and you and JF (I think) were saying he is very good at it. Right now, I fully concede that point - Song needs to go forward because he's actually pretty damn good as a creative player. I think what we have now is solid - arteta, Ramsey and song seem to be attacking and defending equally.

I don't know about arshavin really...I just think it's more to do with him rather than management...just doesn't have the hunger. Irony, IMO.

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I'd agree with that. What makes me think its a motivation thing with Arshavin is that while almost all our other players seem to have improved with a better balance to the team, there's been no real transformation from him.

Re Song - Arteta sitting deeper allows Song to get forward to far less suicidal effect than last season. In fact IMO Arsteta is very much the unsung Song hero of our current rennaisance.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Who said anything about a vertical line?

Look at how Barca play.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/11/...diola-tactics/

In fact, check out that site and watch how a few other teams play and balance out their midfield. Not saying Cesc shouldn't defend, but you're talking about two lightweight players in a 4-4-2 formation. We'd never stand a chance. Every player has to chip in when it comes to defending but when it comes to attack you have to at least have one player that sits back on the half way line and covers just in case a move breaks down. That’s why teams are playing 5 man midfields these days.

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so who sat back when united flew out the traps earlier this season with anderson and cleverly in the middle? there was no designated player, it was just two midfielders willing and able to do their fair share. if cesc was unable to do that then that tells you all you need to know.

"don't kid yourselves, it's a very simple game football" - Roy Keane