Goodbye Sanga?

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

he is blinkered, that is one of his faults, one found in every successful person.

unfortunately for him he remains blinkered regarding the wrong things, so it has hurt him and the clubs progression terribly.

he has made mistakes and will continue as long as he is in charge, however, that does not equate to him not giving a damn.

it just means that he is outdated but from his perspective (and wrongly) he believes he is doing all the right things to change the mistakes. he is stuck in a loop of trying the same things that are no longer good enough but in his mind, he is trying his best.

whether that is good enough or not is open for debate but it is churlish to suggest he doesn't give a toss. actually, it is beyond ridiculous.

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I'm not saying he doesn't care about winning at all, but what's clear is unlike for the top manager's it's not the be all and end all.

His ideology is more important than winning for him, he won't win at all costs and that's partly why we are where we are. He stubborn like you say and won't change what he thinks is right, even if it's been shown not to work.

IMO that's not something someone desperate to win does.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Are you drunk?

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Fucksake its not even noon.

Yes.

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

what on earth are you on about? name me one person who is happy when things aren't going well? which player or manager thinks 'we arent playing well but im content'? for that reason its a piss poor argument. every manager, player and fan wants to win so using the antithesis to boost your wenger argument is a cop out. you say it's a baseless argument to state that wenger is content with not winning things but if anything, it's your statement that's baseless. your whole argument is based on wenger's emotion and antics on the touchline/press conferences. you have no quotes, no proof, and no reliable evidence to catalyse your argument. on the other hand, ItsMe is coming to a rational conclusion based on what has happened in the past- he's looking at quotes such as 'we need to improve defensively and add to our squad' and 'if song goes we will add defensively', but sees wenger doing nothing about it. that doesn't tell me he's a manager who thinks we can win trophies because he's identified a deficiency yet not acted upon it. a manager that is hell-bent on winning would improve such frailties.

ItsMe is perfectly right, during the past 7 years wenger has done very little to change the policy in order to stop the ongoing predicament we were in. its only recently that he's had a change of heart and decided to take a new direction, which only came about by default through players giving up on the project. its one thing being unhappy about losing but another doing something about it. the managers that want to win will do so at all costs. not even you can sit here and tell us that we have tried winning at all costs. we could have done much more. in fact, under your argument wenger is shown up as a huge hypocrite; he acknowledges we are not good enough - as evident by his emotions - yet does nothing about it. that's border line insanity. if you had cancer would you sit and cry about it all day then do nothing about it, or would you go to the doctors?

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Brilliant post.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Fucksake.

He knows exactly what he is doing, because he is doing the job that the owners of the cluib have asked of him. If he wasn't, he would no longer have a job.

In fact, he's doing a fucking blinding job if you look at it properly. Spends no money, get's champions league. That is fucking genius, and only a few managers could do that.

This is what the board want him to do. Who knows if his role will change, if and when we decide to spend more money (assuming incumbent on new sponsorship deals).

Winning shit, is what Wenger and all players want, but it is second priority on his job spec. It's so fucking clear it's untrue.

Make no mistake, any new manager coming in will be tasked with exactly the same.

We all fucking know we should be more ambitious than we have been. That goes without saying, but this delusional idea that it is all down to Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.

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I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't think there's many top managers who would sacrifice winning for finances.

Surely the whole point of being a manager is doing your best and trying to be the best their is at a big club it's about achieving success, if you stuck Ferguson in do you think he'd be happy just coming 3rd or 4th every season with nothing else to show for it? I doubt it very much and I'd think he'd either confront the owners or leave.

Wenger is happy with the current setup, winning isn't the be all and end all for him.

Wiltord's Winner, you completely contradicted yourself. The first half of your first paragraph stated how of course no-one would be happy with not being successful and then you said it's 'baseless' to state that wenger is content with not winning things when you'd just been arguing that no-one would be :lol:

Why hasn't Wenger done more to make us successful?
Maybe he's a stubborn fool, wanting to do things the 'right' way and not throw money around.
Maybe he's looking longer term for the club trying to get the stadium debt cleared as soon as possible.
Maybe the board are restricting him, pressuring him to turn a profit each year.
Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he's happy with how things are? Behave, you can see he does and to state that's the only possible reason for his policies is laughable.

Footballers are competitive, so are managers (many of whom, Wenger included, are ex-players). Most aren't happy to just collect the salary and not be successful. ItsMe argued that above when talking about Sagna but then argues the exact opposite about Wenger.

ItsMe is also wrong when he says we need a drastic change in policy. We don't. If we'd slumped into mid-table then yes, but actually we've been top 4 every single year, a couple of times flirted with the title and got to the latter stages of cup competitions on several occasions. I fancy us for a top 4 finish again this year. We are not a club in crisis. We don't need drastic changes.

No, Wenger hasn't tried winning at all costs. Had he done that he'd have bankrupted us. Has he done enough? Probably not. Could the only reason for that be because he's happy with a lack of success? No. Is that even a plausible reason? No.

http://www.hdart.co.uk/images/upload...ol_Mural_1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner

if you had cancer would you sit and cry about it all day then do nothing about it, or would you go to the doctors?

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If it were me, I'd have Wenger kick me in the nuts.

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Originally Posted by Letters

So you agree Wenger wouldn't be happy that we've not been successful then.
Cool :good:

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Obviously he would have liked to have won stuff, but despite not winning for 7 years he still seems pretty happy and defends/praises the teams achievements.

Can't see Ferguson/Mourinho or any other top manager praising 4th places every season.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

I'm not saying he doesn't care about winning at all, but what's clear is unlike for the top manager's it's not the be all and end all.

His ideology is more important than winning for him, he won't win at all costs and that's partly why we are where we are. He stubborn like you say and won't change what he thinks is right, even if it's been shown not to work.

IMO that's not something someone desperate to win does.

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it's someone who is completely blinkered.

put it this way, all of us believe we are complete experts about something or other. As time goes on, we’ll get even more stubborn about our knowledge and taking on advice, especially into our 60s.

That is the position wenger is in. He absolutely, truly believes what he is doing is the right thing for the club and in his stubbornness he is not listening or taking on outside help to change that course because he is convinced his way is 100% right.

I can only think of one other manager in his age group that continues to be successful and adapt to new ideas and that is ferguson – who as we know is a complete one off.

Wenger desperately wants to win, even just for the fact of throwing it all back in his critics faces to prove to them how wrong they were. He enjoys his salary and has become lost within the internal money game at the club but his desire to succeed is as high as ever i believe; the problem is he has set himself a course he cannot reverse and one he does not want to.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Wiltord's Winner, you completely contradicted yourself. The first half of your first paragraph stated how of course no-one would be happy with not being successful and then you said it's 'baseless' to state that wenger is content with not winning things when you'd just been arguing that no-one would be :lol:

Why hasn't Wenger done more to make us successful?
Maybe he's a stubborn fool, wanting to do things the 'right' way and not throw money around.
Maybe he's looking longer term for the club trying to get the stadium debt cleared as soon as possible.
Maybe the board are restricting him, pressuring him to turn a profit each year.
Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he's happy with how things are? Behave, you can see he does and to state that's the only possible reason for his policies is laughable.

Footballers are competitive, so are managers (many of whom, Wenger included, are ex-players). Most aren't happy to just collect the salary and not be successful. ItsMe argued that above when talking about Sagna but then argues the exact opposite about Wenger.

ItsMe is also wrong when he says we need a drastic change in policy. We don't. If we'd slumped into mid-table then yes, but actually we've been top 4 every single year, a couple of times flirted with the title and got to the latter stages of cup competitions on several occasions. I fancy us for a top 4 finish again this year. We are not a club in crisis. We don't need drastic changes.

No, Wenger hasn't tried winning at all costs. Had he done that he'd have bankrupted us. Has he done enough? Probably not. Could the only reason for that be because he's happy with a lack of success? No. Is that even a plausible reason? No.

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You idiotic bumbler :sulk: