Who Will Win The League - 2

My opinion is of that we don't have the mentality to fight for a title throughout the duration of the season. The players take a large part of the blame in this but so does Wenger, he's the one who has been in charge of numerous Arsenal sides over the past 12 years that he built, all of these teams have collapsed in title challenges irrespective of the opposition.

Of course we do win "pressure" games, we win more games than we lose but the facts are that Wenger led Arsenal teams collapse in title races, it's not a conspiracy, the facts are there for us all to see.

We can dissect all the key matches season by season and honestly I don't really know what the root cause is, but there is something inherently wrong with the teams Wenger builds and the mentality within these teams because irrespective of personnel, Wenger led teams collapse in title races.

I think Leicester are proving that if anything the influence that a manager has on a team is becoming more and more negligible, I think what you said about Wenger relying on his players to perform with relatively minimal input is true but I think it's very true of Ranieri.
And ironic that a man who has if anything has been poor at many of the clubs he has managed (Valencia, Roma, Monaco, Greece etc) will probably end up surpassing the historical achievements of many club managers in the history of the English game by performing the miraculous feat of winning the title with a club like Leicester City.
I don't think Leicester are multi faceted tactically but the players work harder than any other team in the league and it's more of an indicator of the players taking responsibility for their own performance.
In that respect has Wenger chosen the wrong players....obviously he has because although the players are technically talented they do not have the same industry as their opposite numbers at other clubs.

But with the exception of a few players like Okazaki this is Nigel Pearsons team not Ranieris, and whilst I'm not in anyway impugning Ranieri I think his contribution has been to sensibly take a back step and let the team perform without too much input from him.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The problem is you take such an absolutist view that you may yourself seem ridiculous when presented with counter examples

Do we ultimately show mental weakness under pressure and that contributes to us not winning a league title in 12 years? Yes of course but as Letters point out there are times we do perform under pressure but we don't do it consistently because we are a confidence team where one defeat tends to have knock on effect that it doesn't have for other teams.

Beating Leicester in February especially getting a goal in final knockings showed the ability to get a result under pressure however this was followed up by a collapse which shows our utter inconsistency, and yes I'd agree we only perform consistently when under less pressure.

Leicester will win the title because apart from a slight wobble post Xmas they have shown fantastic consistency.

Does that make Claudio Ranieri superior to Wenger?? Not really just wise enough to inherit Nigel Pearsons blueprint and not tinker with it too much.

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So is Nigel Pearson superior to Wenger? :unsure:

Consistency and pressure go hand in hand when your in the title race. It's all to do with our mentality as a team and Sanchez alluded to this issue when he was being critical of our performances.

The point I'm making is that people talk about leadership in teams as if one player is responsible, but I'd argue that a captains role is as negligible as a managers

Well Leicesters form this season is a continuation of what Pearson acheived with that run of form that got them free from relegation by a confortable margin.

Leicester have proved that a team is more than the sum of its parts and it's that collective responsibility to chase down, to talk to eachother to run and run is arguably been as much as an asset to them as the respective form of Vardy and Mahrez

Wenger has opted for a team that relys on the technical ability of individuals and when that doesn't work there is little else left.

Who is a better manager is an ephemeral question, of course this season Ranieri has outperformed Wenger just as he has many other coaches.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think Leicester are proving that if anything the influence that a manager has on a team is becoming more and more negligible, I think what you said about Wenger relying on his players to perform with relatively minimal input is true but I think it's very true of Ranieri.
And ironic that a man who has if anything has been poor at many of the clubs he has managed (Valencia, Roma, Monaco, Greece etc) will probably end up surpassing the historical achievements of many club managers in the history of the English game by performing the miraculous feat of winning the title with a club like Leicester City.
I don't think Leicester are multi faceted tactically but the players work harder than any other team in the league and it's more of an indicator of the players taking responsibility for their own performance.
In that respect has Wenger chosen the wrong players....obviously he has because although the players are technically talented they do not have the same industry as their opposite numbers at other clubs.

But with the exception of a few players like Okazaki this is Nigel Pearsons team not Ranieris, and whilst I'm not in anyway impugning Ranieri I think his contribution has been to sensibly take a back step and let the team perform without too much input from him.

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Nah it's not really Pearson's team, Ranieri has brought in Fuchs & Kante & restored Drinkwater and Vardy to the starting line up, that's a third of the team. Of course Pearson set the blueprint and Leicester finished last season very strongly to stay up, but it's disrespectful to discredit Ranieri and say that he hasn't had the influence and it's not his team. Sure he listened to them at the start of the season and to an extent let them do the organising but he's very much a part of their success, without Kante, Drinkwater and Vardy they would be halfway down the table...if that.

I think Ranieri is given a hard time, he pretty much built that Chelsea side that was successful under Mourinho, the core was already there and they were Ranieiri signings. He did the same at Juve too and did relatively well at Monaco considering he was up against PSG. He's had a mixed career but he's a decent enough coach and has won trophies before, admittedly he's never won a top division title up until now.

I'm not impugning Ranieri at all, I think he's done a great job but the argumemt I'm making is that he's taken a laisse faire approach in the same way Wenger has and allowed his team to perform as a unit without tactical tweaking.

I think he's had a positive influence in the same way someone so irrascible and arguably a bit disturbed like Nigel Pearson couldn't have.

Ranieri has given them the freedom to perform as a unit, Wenger does the same but largely what we have superior to Leicester in individual ability is lacking in a team mentality, which is Wengers fault as he hasn't bought the kind of players to function as a unit.

I wonder with a few more players coming through the youth setup, like Hector and Iwobi, and if he makes it back, Wilshere, will give the team more passion and drive. This isnt a bashing of foreign players, but players that grow up through the club might have more feel for it. It takes a mix, but a few more with a deep passion might help us. Im still one that thinks a leader on the pitch is important, I think certain players can drive a team on. Im not sure any of our current crop are captain material. Adams was, Viera was. I also think a captain does need to be vocal, and a players others can look too and be shouted at by! This needs a certain type of player, one all the others respect.

I think it's fair to say Leicester have merely carried on from the blueprint set last season, but it's the nerves of steel where Ranieri has earned his money. You'd expect a squad largely made up of journeymen and average players to get a nosebleed but they've relished the challenge. Compare that to Wenger's teams who just freeze up whenever winning the title becomes a realistic possibility.

Burden of expectation, I suppose.

Even a finish in the top 4 would have been a massive success for Leicester. It's just been a perfect storm for them. No European distraction, settled squad, bit of magic in Mahrez.

I found it interesting that Wenger said after one of our recent wins we've proved our mental strength or something along those lines, ignoring the collapse that took place before it.

There's really no hope for him, rather than accepting we've just not been good enough and will need to look at things in the summer he's still maintaining that people were wrong and we do have mental strength and can deal with the pressure of winning a title, you just can't ever move forward if you don't recognise the problems/weaknesses which is why every season with him in charge will end in the same way.