Ozil - Do we need him?

I don't think we'll win it either and the Everton result was a setback but those will happen. They happen in any season. The question remains, for me, whether we will react.
A win at City will be a perfect response, not holding my breath but I live in hope!

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again i agree (and made the point about half hour ago). I think the tika takka system is a kind of death by a thousand cuts and it can be frustrating to watch. I do think however that actually when we do score or look good more often than not it's more a mixture of pace and direct passing (the way for instance we took west ham and basel apart on the counter attack). It's not to say short passing movements don't work for us as well (the best example i can think of is the second goal against chelsea which was pure tikka takka). But often when we are pressed we regress to short sideways passing and keep ball which has very little in the way of penetration....employing pace on the wings has given us a bit more dimension though.

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I just caught that. We’re on the same page. The system we play now comes back to the days we had Cesc. It’s beautiful to watch when you’re facing another attacking team but when teams park the bus and you’ve got players that just want to play it safe, it gets boring and easy to defend against.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I just caught that. We’re on the same page. The system we play now comes back to the days we had Cesc. It’s beautiful to watch when you’re facing another attacking team but when teams park the bus and you’ve got players that just want to play it safe, it gets boring and easy to defend against.

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I think this is why our away results are often as good if not better than our home ones. The home teams are obligated to have a go and that plans int our hands. Most teams will come to the Emirates hoping for a point and that can frustrate us.

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Originally Posted by Goonermerree

Maybe if we played with a bit more pace, we could have beaten Everton, then we would be second and only 3 points behind Chelsea. It's important to keep on their tails. I don't think we'll win the league, but it would be nice to give a good challenge.

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That's all I want to see, a proper challenge of substance and if we miss out then so be it. We'll see what happens in the spring but I doubt we have the consistency to get close enough to 1st to pounce on any slip ups. We're too flakey.

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Originally Posted by selassie

I'll probably get slaughtered for this but I agree PnG.

Ozil is a great player but when the battle is on and things get a little physical he goes into hiding. Cesc wasn't ever like that.

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My man! :cheers: You shouldn't get slaughtered.

We could have won that game against Everton too. Ozil misses a sitter but I hear nothing from NQ and others. It goes back to Wenger not stepping up his game. It's fine margins. The players have to step their game up also. I have no doubt, as Blink said, if it were Theo or Iwobi, add Ox as well, they'd have been marked out for far more criticism.

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Originally Posted by Letters to Santa

I think this is why our away results are often as good if not better than our home ones. The home teams are obligated to have a go and that plans int our hands. Most teams will come to the Emirates hoping for a point and that can frustrate us.

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You’re right. I remember there was a time when we’d all prefer the big games because we knew teams would attack us and space behind would be left. But I also think the key to us playing well is passing quickly and staying mobile. We also need more players to take risks and actually dribble through players to move a marker. It's partly why I rate Sanchez so much and glad he's playing as striker. The hat trick he scored against West Ham is an example. The way he took each goal and fought to make that extra space to get his shot off. We've missed that. We need some others to start doing the same.

Ozil has the ability to jink and move past players in a similar way so it pisses me off when we're struggling for a goal and I see him play a first time pass back to someone else and then just jog off. Show some initiative and take more responsibility. If he loses the ball in that moment or it doesn't work, fine. But put yourself out there and don't hide. I remember Nasri would do something similar and it would piss me off because he was also good with the ball at his feet. Not everyone has that sort of technique so I don't expect it from all but those that do should try everything in their tool box when we're looking desperate.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

On that statement alone, you shouldn't talk. That whole 'tippy tappy' saying comes from our poor implementation of Barca's tika tika system. We changed from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 because of Cesc.

We've had discussions about this before and you have no idea what we're doing half the time. It's 'tippy tappy' when we lose or haven't scored yet but if we carve a team open with our passes, you talk as if there has been a change in tactics. :doh:

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Let's roll this back to where it all begins - your constant paddling to get out of your anti-Ozil stance that you thought had legs until he picked up his game and became invaluable to the team. But you can't admit that so you are going to defend this, "Do we need him, luxury player", bullshit by all means possible. The latest pass is Cesc. Cesc was a better player. Well no he wasn't. Not in a million years. No in terms of technical ability. Not in terms of vision. Not in terms of intelligence. Cesc was better at putting it about and that's about all. Cesc was a more industrial player, but Ozil doesn't need to be because his brain works a lot better. Both good players of course, no argument there. But it's not even a matter of opinion who is the superior player. It's just a matter of watching Ozil play and the answer is there. You can't see through your bias that has developed from what was probably innocent frustration when Ozil was perceived (because it wasn't true) of not delivering -those were the silly "stealing a living" comments from a jealous media. I guess you fell for that.

As for tippy tappy. That wasn't built all about Cesc. He was integral to it, but our style, tactics, transfer policy all changed as Wenger became more out of touch with the leage he was playing in and his arrogance increased as he sought his next big revolution in England, Barca-lite. It never arrived of course because in the PL it's fine to kick opponents off the ball. Wenger is blind to this for whatever reason. But to say it was all about Cesc. Rubbish. It was all about Wenger. And if you brought Cesc back into the mire we are swimming in now he'd be just as fucked as the rest of them, watching that static front line, watching the open guy running towards him rather than running into space, having to try to make something from a whole bag of negatives, all done at a snail's pace. Ozil and Alexis are all that stand between us and pure nothingness. You swap either of these two for Cesc and you are 100% fucked. You'd probably do it just to sign off on your Ozil agenda, but you'd see the results soon enough and it wouldn't be pretty.

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Originally Posted by Goonermerree

Who would you want in?

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Wouldn't really matter. There's a catalogue of potential managers out there who would do the job. Sack them if they are no good. The point of getting rid of Wenger is to end the seemingly endless nothingness, to bring something, anything, to shake things up and remind everyone that the goal of the game is not to be rich, above average also-rans.

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Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn

Let's roll this back to where it all begins - your constant paddling to get out of your anti-Ozil stance that you thought had legs until he picked up his game and became invaluable to the team. But you can't admit that so you are going to defend this, "Do we need him, luxury player", bullshit by all means possible. The latest pass is Cesc. Cesc was a better player. Well no he wasn't. Not in a million years. No in terms of technical ability. Not in terms of vision. Not in terms of intelligence. Cesc was better at putting it about and that's about all. Cesc was a more industrial player, but Ozil doesn't need to be because his brain works a lot better. Both good players of course, no argument there. But it's not even a matter of opinion who is the superior player. It's just a matter of watching Ozil play and the answer is there. You can't see through your bias that has developed from what was probably innocent frustration when Ozil was perceived (because it wasn't true) of not delivering -those were the silly "stealing a living" comments from a jealous media. I guess you fell for that.

As for tippy tappy. That wasn't built all about Cesc. He was integral to it, but our style, tactics, transfer policy all changed as Wenger became more out of touch with the leage he was playing in and his arrogance increased as he sought his next big revolution in England, Barca-lite. It never arrived of course because in the PL it's fine to kick opponents off the ball. Wenger is blind to this for whatever reason. But to say it was all about Cesc. Rubbish. It was all about Wenger. And if you brought Cesc back into the mire we are swimming in now he'd be just as fucked as the rest of them, watching that static front line, watching the open guy running towards him rather than running into space, having to try to make something from a whole bag of negatives, all done at a snail's pace. Ozil and Alexis are all that stand between us and pure nothingness. You swap either of these two for Cesc and you are 100% fucked. You'd probably do it just to sign off on your Ozil agenda, but you'd see the results soon enough and it wouldn't be pretty.

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You can keep trying to pick apart my agenda by painting it as an 'anti Ozil' stance but we'd have a much better conversation if you focused on football or read up on what's going on. This will go nowhere fast. When you can't even acknowledged that Cesc played in a much shitter team...or even that we changed from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 to play to his strengths, I don't think it's worth continuing.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You can keep trying to pick apart my agenda by painting it as an 'anti Ozil' stance but we'd have a much better conversation if you focused on football or read up on what's going on. This will go nowhere fast. When you can't even acknowledged that Cesc played in a much shitter team...or even that we changed from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 to play to his strengths, I don't think it's worth continuing.

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I can understand why you don't want to continue. You were the one who was laughed out of the room with your whole, "luxury player", thing. This isn't about who the best player is, it's just another of your digs at Ozil. As is the bullshit about him not taking enough heat for missing chances in the last game. Look in the match thread, the heat was delivered in real time. The only person not judging Ozil evenly is yourself. And I won't be acknowledging that Cesc played in a shitter team anytime soon, because it's not the case. You are focusing on the individuals as the sole criteria for what makes a decent team. There's a lot more to it than that. The type of football we play now is dire and has been declining steadily with the only discernible uptick in years coming from the "luxury" player Ozil and the guy he's struck up a great relationship with on the pitch, Alexis. These are quality players, the real deal. So you don't like Ozil, fine. We get it. Your opinion has no bearing on reality but you are entitled to have it.