Ozil - Do we need him?

the issue is more about the style of football for me, and without question the tippety tappety style of football was introduced by Wenger to facilitate Fabregas to begin with and has rather taken on a life of it's own since his departure.

When Fabregas got into the first team there is no doubt that the players around him were superior, but frankly at the same time he was often playing with dross like Denilson or an out of form Diaby or Alex Song who was often inconsistent.

I also think Fabregas went missing just as frequently in the big games, but the issue was like with Ozil and Sanchez is the emphasis placed on them to singularly perform well in these games and went the players around them are not performing it's going to have a drain on their own performance.

I personally don't see a great deal of difference between the two players, I personally prefer watching Ozil although I equally enjoyed watching Fabregas at his best.

But there is no doubt that building a team around Fabregas was the focal point for us adopting the tikka takka approach in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn

I can understand why you don't want to continue. You were the one who was laughed out of the room with your whole, "luxury player", thing. This isn't about who the best player is, it's just another of your digs at Ozil. As is the bullshit about him not taking enough heat for missing chances in the last game. Look in the match thread, the heat was delivered in real time. The only person not judging Ozil evenly is yourself. And I won't be acknowledging that Cesc played in a shitter team anytime soon, because it's not the case. You are focusing on the individuals as the sole criteria for what makes a decent team. There's a lot more to it than that. The type of football we play now is dire and has been declining steadily with the only discernible uptick in years coming from the "luxury" player Ozil and the guy he's struck up a great relationship with on the pitch, Alexis. These are quality players, the real deal. So you don't like Ozil, fine. We get it. Your opinion has no bearing on reality but you are entitled to have it.

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I'll continue with someone that knows what they're talking about at least. The threads been going on long enough and I haven't shied away from it. It was an unpopular opinion but as things progress, people start to catch on. It’s people deflecting attention away from Ozil that annoys me. At first, scoring goals weren’t part of a role of an attacking midfielder and we’d get a lot more out of him with a better striker….etc. Has there been a massive improvement from Ozil since Giroud has gone out of the team?

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Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn

Wouldn't really matter. There's a catalogue of potential managers out there who would do the job. Sack them if they are no good. The point of getting rid of Wenger is to end the seemingly endless nothingness, to bring something, anything, to shake things up and remind everyone that the goal of the game is not to be rich, above average also-rans.

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Big Sam Arghhh. At least he'd teach the players how to counter with impunity. Punch that is...

We may end up on a merry-go-round of managers.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

the issue is more about the style of football for me, and without question the tippety tappety style of football was introduced by Wenger to facilitate Fabregas to begin with and has rather taken on a life of it's own since his departure.

When Fabregas got into the first team there is no doubt that the players around him were superior, but frankly at the same time he was often playing with dross like Denilson or an out of form Diaby or Alex Song who was often inconsistent.

I also think Fabregas went missing just as frequently in the big games, but the issue was like with Ozil and Sanchez is the emphasis placed on them to singularly perform well in these games and went the players around them are not performing it's going to have a drain on their own performance.

I personally don't see a great deal of difference between the two players, I personally prefer watching Ozil although I equally enjoyed watching Fabregas at his best.

But there is no doubt that building a team around Fabregas was the focal point for us adopting the tikka takka approach in the first place.

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Fabregas was the tool that allowed Wenger to go down that route. But Wenger was going there anyway, by one means or another. Fabregas is gone. Wenger is as committed as ever to this non-football. He thought he was revolutionising the game again. But all he was doing was throwing away a formula that worked for us and was so perfectly suited to the league we play in. It's the old cliche, but power, pace, directness, our still unrivalled ability to terrorise an opponent on their own corners and be up their end slotting the ball in the next 15 seconds later. Pass, move, pass, move, pass, move, goal. The very opposite of what we play now, except on those rare occasions where we do inject a bit of pace, do become a bit more direct. When we do this we are transformed and these are what we call our decent performances and, no surprise, they coincide with our decent results. I think yes, for sure, having Fabregas was a big encouragement. But not having him wouldn't have prevented Wenger going off on this idiotic path. He's all but destroyed his legacy in the process. And he absolutely will not admit he's been wrong and is still wrong.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

If you'd asked me who i said was more pivotal earlier in the year i'd have said Ozil, but tuesday night shows how pivotal that Sanchez is to our attacking play he has his markers chasing shadows and frees up so much space for those around him that he becomes invaluable to us.

Ozil's passing and vision is second to none in my view, but this is can be rather limited against sides who will spend the entire game doing all they can to close us down and deny us space. Ozil's ability to find players and assists are exceptional, but he is not providing many assists currently. I'd rather lose neither of them i think they perform together brilliantly and i think add a player like Lucas Perez into the mix we have an attack which bamboozles defences with it's trickery.

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This is where we agree on Ozil, Herb. That's your response to Fakeyank some weeks back.

I wouldn't go as far as saying Ozil's passing and vision is second to none, but it's up there.

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Originally Posted by Goonermerree

Big Sam Arghhh. At least he'd teach the players how to counter with impunity. Punch that is...

We may end up on a merry-go-round of managers.

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Does it matter? Are we that desperate to keep on being second best, third best, fourth best and never really getting close to the big prizes. Are we so keen to keep on seeing these lethargic performances, to keep falling at the vital hurdles? So what if we finished fifth, sixth, seventh? What's the difference except cash? And there's really not much difference in the cash now either, you get a fortune for being relegated. But you have to take a risk to make some progress because there's no progress possible under Wenger.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I'll continue with someone that knows what they're talking about at least. The threads been going on long enough and I haven't shied away from it. It was an unpopular opinion but as things progress, people start to catch on. It’s people deflecting attention away from Ozil that annoys me. At first, scoring goals weren’t part of a role of an attacking midfielder and we’d get a lot more out of him with a better striker….etc. Has there been a massive improvement from Ozil since Giroud has gone out of the team?

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Yes, I forgot you were so knowledgable. You can tell from your expert analysis of Ozil. No doubt, it's an unpopular opinion but it's also a ridiculous one. We don't just need Ozil for what he brings on the pitch, we need him for the prestige of the club. If we are supposed to be part of this elite group then we need players of this quality to back up such a claim. Because we sure as hell aren't winning the trophies that warrant our inclusion in that bracket. And just who is "catching on" to this anti-Ozil agenda? Nobody I can see. You get fans grumbling about him after a loss and then worshipping him after a win, that's normal. But that's hardly the same thing as concluding we don't need him at all. And yes, we've been getting more out of him since we've installed a better (I'd say proper) striker up front. There's a very promising relationship developing with Alexis and these two are a cut above anything else we have out there. That's why I said we need to add quality this January. The more we add the more we'll get from Ozil and Alexis.

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Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn

Yes, I forgot you were so knowledgable. You can tell from your expert analysis of Ozil. No doubt, it's an unpopular opinion but it's also a ridiculous one. We don't just need Ozil for what he brings on the pitch, we need him for the prestige of the club. If we are supposed to be part of this elite group then we need players of this quality to back up such a claim. Because we sure as hell aren't winning the trophies that warrant our inclusion in that bracket. And just who is "catching on" to this anti-Ozil agenda? Nobody I can see. You get fans grumbling about him after a loss and then worshipping him after a win, that's normal. But that's hardly the same thing as concluding we don't need him at all. And yes, we've been getting more out of him since we've installed a better (I'd say proper) striker up front. There's a very promising relationship developing with Alexis and these two are a cut above anything else we have out there. That's why I said we need to add quality this January. The more we add the more we'll get from Ozil and Alexis.

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You only have to go on Twitter. Been seeing it on the blogs. Even Arsenal Fan TV. :lol:

Caught this one and he has a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPE9SGLg89A

http://le-grove.co.uk/2016/12/08/mes...er/#more-22633

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So the newspapers are dropping Ozil numbers like the more stupid the number, the more likely people are to click the article?

No. Damn. Way.

Mesut Ozil is apparently chasing e450,000 per week to stay at Arsenal. Now, from where I’m looking, when you’re asking a club like Arsenal for that sort of money, you’re basically saying you’d like to go elsewhere. It’s like your partner asking what you’d like for breakfast and you saying a better attitude and their best friend for one night only.

I have my doubts that’s what he’s asking for, it’s not even an aggressive starting point for negotiations. Bayern wouldn’t pay that for him and outside that, I’m struggling to see who’d take him. Would Madrid pay him that? I’m pretty sure that Gareth Bale isn’t anywhere near that and he’s kind of the new best player in the world elect. Outside those two, who could afford it or would want to?

I know it’s super untrendy to say, but I love Ozil, I’m just not sure he’s quite the consistent world beater he could be. He has it all, bar the edge… do you know what I mean? Someone rightly pointed out in the comments the other day that if he does as much running as Sanchez, he’s not doing it right, because his impact isn’t anywhere near what the Chilean offers.

Sure, he pulls people out of position, passes like a demon and posesses voodoo like magic, but look… Carlo A preferred Di Maria to Ozil because he had a character more suited to Madrid.

“It’s true, that maybe Di Maria has less quality than Özil but on a profile of dynamism, character and help to the team I preferred Di Maria.”

Carlo is one of the greats of management. Up there with the best. I totally get what he’s saying there. It’s not like he’s comparing Thierry Henry to Ray Parlour there, he’s comparing two great players and saying he prefers one because of character traits. So I’m not saying I don’t love Ozil, I’m not saying he doesn’t wow me, I’m just saying I’d like to feel his presence more often and I’d like not to have to search for it in the big games.

Until he offers that up, he’s not in the £384,000 p/w category.

Now Sanchez. Well, if he can maintain this streak, he’s pushing himself right up there with the best. So he might be worth pushing the boat out for.

I just wonder how the coach will deal with Theo when he comes knocking for the same.

NO I DON’T, JUST KIDDING.

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Also, as per usual, as these contract talks rage on and if Ozil doesn't sign a new deal, I'm sure opinions will change. That shouldn't be the case but that's how it goes.

Hmmm.....Why is he building an argument on a premise he doesn't really think is likely to be true? And okay Ancelotti preferred Di Maria at a time.....so what?....