Can anyone come up with a name who they would rather see as manager or head coach of Arsenal rather than Arteta?
If no-one can then STFU.
Printable View
Can anyone come up with a name who they would rather see as manager or head coach of Arsenal rather than Arteta?
If no-one can then STFU.
Would it help you if the point was made for you using glove puppetsQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Get rid of Arteta, scrap the manager role, de-centralise the decision making process
No good comes when anyone be it Wenger or Arteta start a power grab and taking more responsibility for the running of the club themselves
If you can't come up with a name for his replacement then your whole argument is hollow.
Arteta will be staying for at least a year or two yet anyway.
Get over it.
Less Hollow than your head I fearQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Depends, if he finishes outside the top 4 he’s done. Tom Selleck won’t want the value of his cash cow to depreciate.
You still can't come up with a name!!!!!
How pathetic you are.
You live on here, you're obsessed with Arteta but you cannot think of anyone you want to replace him.
Get a fucking life you incredibly sad little man.
You forgot to end with Trust the ProcessQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
I actually tried to patiently explain to you why I don’t regard a name as relevant. Oh who would do a better job? It’s about changing the structure of the club so that the job Arteta has no longer exists. Then as I say even if we promoted from those amongst the current staff it wouldn’t be a big deal. You don’t agree clearly, you don’t have to….but please if you can’t comprehend don’t pretend like I’m being unreasonable
In theory, in what i envisage. Arteta could stay if he agreed to give up the role of manager and go back to being a head coach. And gave up the absolute power he had on deciding transfers and tactics…the scrapping of the inverted fullback and the Xhaka role would be non negotiable.
I don’t think he’d agree to this
Change the structure to whatever you like.
Give me a name who you want to be in charge?
Its very easy to say you want Arteta out but surely you have to come up with a name to replace him.
How is that so difficult for you to understand?
Someone, anyone, come up with a name.
Tell you what, earn your coaching badges and agree to the terms I’ve set out and I’ll name youQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Do you see the point I’m making.
So literally anyone who is qualified would do a better job than Arteta.
How stupid are you?
You need something else to occupy your time.
I don't have the time to spend arguing with you fucking idiots.
Don’t blame me for your limited thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Managers don’t have this magical power you ascribe to them, their ability to effect positive change is limited. Their ability to do damage with their ego however is limitless.
I don’t want any big names polluting things with their egos and galaxy brained tactics. We have the core of a very good team, we need an additional winger, a creative midfielder and a striker and to clear out some of the dead wood.
What we need is someone who works as part of a team and shares duties and responsibilities. No more square pegs in round holes, no more stubbornness. Just keep it simple
I’m sorry you can’t understand that and obsess about names as if it’s a fashion brand.
:gp::gp::gp: Mate, you've probably made the best chain of posts I've seen on GWEB for what feels like a generation and honestly you deserve to be GOATedQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Now I had accused our resident "sad little man" of subconsciously not wanting Arteta out, but the lack of proper responses to your post just reveals that a lot of us fans are guilty of the same offence....and TBH I have to include myself in this group too.
Now, there is something else I need to point out before trying to answer your question, which is that the way you are haranguing HCZ is almost a carbon copy of the way Letters (and other AW-forever members of yesteryears) use to come at anti-AW posters on this site, before he eventually changed his mind (oh and TBF he did the haranguing with a lot more finesse and less grunting than you are showing ATM :lol: ).
Anyway, I remember when having to give a name to Letters (or another AW-forever poster), among the options I mentioned at that time was Jurgen Klopp, and that was before Liverpool got interested (as I had been a fan of Dortmund in the 90s so I had kept following them for a bit). Obviously, he later joined Liverpool and we all know the story from there.
I also noticed Letters response to your "challenge" and I couldn't help but smile, as I do remember Zim replying to Letters in similar fashion (i.e. "naming names is not necessary") and getting beat downs like you are now dishing out :lol:
So back to your question, if we are really serious of getting rid, we should be discussing names by now. I mean look at the Hammers, it's only been about 2 months the fans realized they didn't like Julien's brand of football and straight away we started hearing whispers like Potter and even calls for Moysie's return!!
Imagine, this thread was started over 3 years ago and still we are struggling to name names. TBH its the same for most of goonerdom, we're really not ready to say goodbye to Arteta and I believe there are many reasons for that, though I still think "fear" trumps them all. Or what else could be keeping us this petrified when most of us freely admit we are not even enjoying the football yet we still can't clearly grab our balls and say "sayanora" to Arteta.
Anyway, if you asked this question anywhere fans are assembled, you are likely to get the same responses you are getting on here right now, which is zilch.
So to answer your question directly, I'd love us to at least try and sound out the hottest manager soon to be available, Alonso, and yes I know he is likely going to Madrid next season, but we've not even tried (sounds familiar right).
But yeah, he's likely off to Madrid, so that leaves me with my number one option. It's the same guy I wanted to take over from AW initially, the same guy I wanted to take over from Emery, and the same guy I still believe could take over from Arteta and give us Slot like results (i.e. win titles at the first time of asking, seeing as he has done that a few times already), Carlo Ancelotti.
He's not going to weaken our defence. He's not going to get into stupid spats with young players. He believes in strikers and the need to have good ones at your disposal. He's accustomed to managing young talents and not running them into the ground. He's also not going to want to stay here for an eternity making excuses as he's old enough to be looking for his last hurrah so we can learn to build and demand a proper culture of accountability from our future managers .... frankly IMO there is no coach in the world that has a better CV and is a better fit for us ATM, especially if we are serious about winning the EPL and the CL with this current team . I mean this is a proven winner, a guy that has almost as many top titles (as a player and manager) as we do as a club, and we're a 137 years old apparently!
But we could keep on the way we are going, Chaka Khaning Arteta with "Ain't Nobody Loves Me Better", while other clubs keep winning titles with coaches we never heard of and the occasional Ancelotti type managers.
Past my bedtime now, but hopefully others will point out their preferred options in the morning and this thread can be taken seriously again.
One more stat to leave us with, Arteta was appointed almost 5 years ago and out of the 91 other teams in the league at that time, 89 have changed their managers.
BTW, from that lot it's only Citeh and Brentford that have managers that have served longer than Arteta has with us.
To think that even Citeh fans have started whispering and we still can't name names.
I'm not saying naming names is irrelevant, but I don't think I personally have to know who would be better to think we should move on from Arteta. I'm not 100% sure I do think that although I'm leaning that way. To me the only relevant questions are:Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
1) Do we want to win a PL title or a CL? That's a big "yes" from me.
2) Is that a realistic ambition? Again, I'd say yes - we're one of the biggest clubs in the country and the whole point of the stadium move was to compete with the best in Europe.
3) Is Arteta the man to achieve that ambition?
Well that's a trickier one, isn't it? He's got no real pedigree at this level, he's never landed the biggest prizes for any club - although he's young so maybe that's unfair. And he's certainly taken us a long way. We were a shambles when he took over and now we are credible contenders. 2 seasons ago we fluffed our lines but I can forgive that as a title challenge wasn't expected. Last season we didn't fluff our lines, had we not been up against the utter machine that is City (who, let's face it, are cheats - morally if not legally), we'd have cruised to the title. The question is can Arteta get us over the line. Obviously we don't know for sure, this season is feeling like a slog so far but it actually did for the first half of last season. And we're actually in a pretty similar position to this time last year. Points wise it's exactly the same. We were 5 points off Liverpool this time last year - it's 6 this year and they have a game in hand. But they have harder games and a fixture pile up to come. They're surely going to wobble at some point. Whether we are the ones to capitalise remains to be seen. We'll have to assess things at the end of the season - another opinion I used to be routinely lambasted for in the dying days of the Wenger era, something which I always found irksome as it's so obviously correct that you assess things at the end of a season not in the middle of it! But if we don't win the title this year, if Liverpool are the ones to capitalise to City dropping off, then one would have to question whether Arteta is the man to get us over the finishing line. We've been the only side to push City in the last 2 years, last year we pushed them to the final day. If City drop off and Liverpool nip in then that would be massively frustrating.
The difference with Wenger was his record with us, he had been there and done it and landed us the biggest trophies. I was never "AW forever", but obviously that record made me more (and I'd concede too) patient with him. If someone says "Arteta out" then "well who in?" is the obvious next question. If someone thinks Arteta can't land us the biggest trophies then who can? It is a good question but it's not one I think someone has to have an answer for to hold the "Arteta out" opinion. With Wenger people were saying stupid things like "anyone would do better". It was obvious bollocks - although I think I was too patient with Wenger, I will never concede he was as bad as some of the idiots on here were claiming. His last season was his worst, we finished 6th. If that's the worst you do in 20 years then you can't be that bad. Emery showed that "anyone would be better" is bollocks. And that's another thing - Emery is clearly a good manager but for whatever reason it didn't work out with him at Arsenal. Maybe he wasn't given enough time, but it didn't seem to be a good fit.
TL;DR - I don't think having no ready made answer to "who in?" invalidates an "Arteta out" opinion. I am personally leaning towards Arteta out but obviously we'll have to see how this season pans out. And I continue to not really understand HCZ's weirdly personal reasons for wanting him out.
I often feel like I’m made to feel responsible for other people’s lack of basic comprehension. I’m not a teacher, what you fail to grasp is not on me.
Basically if I liked Arteta on a personal level, I’d be more inclined to give him leeway….before the last few years I arguably gave Wenger more leeway than he deserved.
Two years ago I said what I said about Arteta under the clearly wrong assumption that it was obvious. That somehow you didn’t need to be bombastic like Mourinho for people to know that you’re a cunt. But apparently people do need to be led by the nose.
Now the argument is, does it matter if he’s a cunt? Well no if he’s winning things. But if he’s not, I’m more inclined to find those thinks I dislike about him even more grating
Definitely don’t think names are needed if you are of the opinion that we need a change of coach. The people in charge take home millions to make these decisions.
It’s like saying we need to sign players, ok then, who? Plenty of players settle quickly and start delivering, sometimes players we’ve never heard of or players that we don’t rate. It’s doing nothing that will ultimately yield the same outcomes over and over.
Is there an echo in here? You don't know him on a personal level.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I mean, firstly he isn't one. That's just some weird Frank Grimes think you have against him because he folded his arms on a reality TV show or some nonsense like that.Quote:
Now the argument is, does it matter if he’s a cunt?
We are half way through the season. I wouldn't put any money on us landing a major trophy this year but half way through a season which has been very similar to the first half of last season is not a sensible point to judge a season. I'm leaning towards Arteta out on the basis that I'm not convinced he'll land us a PL or CL, but obviously May is the time to reassess that.Quote:
Well no if he’s winning things. But if he’s not
I don't know how I'll feel if we fall short again, but it's moot anyway as I don't think he's going anywhere unless we properly crash and burn.
Don’t be obtuse you know full well what I mean. Personal level as in the person’s personality. If you don’t understand how someone betrays their character and personality in what they say and how they say it…I don’t know frankly how you’ve got through life. Do you think if someone smiles that always means they are happy?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I wouldn’t mind if you just said “I don’t see what you’re seeing” or even “I don’t agree”.
Also there’s loads of strawmanning going on, the reason I don’t like him is because he’s a passive aggressive arrogant prick with no personality. Not because he folds his arms and can’t maintain eye contact….those were the physical cues I used as examples to suggest he wasn’t a people person (which I honestly think you need to be in that job) and perhaps evidence of him being on the autistic spectrum.
Honestly I’ve got to the age of 41, and I didn’t think it would need explaining that someone doesn’t need to be a scenery chewing ranter for someone to see there’s something not right about someone. Maybe if I was talking about Guardiola who has a lot of the same negative attributes in terms of being passive aggressive you’d have less trouble accepting it
Yes none of us (I assume) are experts in football across Europe and beyond to single out the best new manager (though I do agree with HCZ that we should revert to the 'head coach' model - making Arteta full manager was a big mistake).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I actually think Amorim will come good in the end at Man Ure and we need to be looking at people like that.
Letters is right, Arteta has done a lot of good things in terms of rebuilding trust and building a team cohesion, but maybe that's all he has for us and to actually be at the top, rather than also-rans, it’s now maybe someone else's job to add to that work
The trouble with Arteta is it's not a case of him gaining more experience, he's just so stubborn and cautious that I’m not sure that will ever change, at least not as long as he's here - ironically I could see him going elsewhere and using that shift to move himself on, but it’s happening too slowly here, if at all – he’s wedded to control and defensive players over attack and quick transition and it's making us turkeys.
I really think top four (and yes that is very important) is in real danger now, with Newcastle, Citeh, Forest and Chelsea at the very least genuine challengers to unseat us – losing CL would be a disaster, players like Saliba might go elsewhere and it would be harder to recruit, not to mention the loss of income.
For that reason, those who want Arteta to go should want us to do really badly from here on, as if we lose top four then the Kroenkes will take a long hard look at Arteta.
I don’t really want that bad run to happen though, because I’m an Arsenal fan and don’t want to see us lose game after game, but there’s a real danger of it now.
I think we’re about to hit a real dip but let’s see, Arsenal have pulled it out of the bag before, but some attacking recruits and a change of mindset from Arteta are crucial – the first has to be a real possibility, the second I fear not so much…
And the last point is academic. We all know that Arteta won’t be moved on unless we finish outside the top four, and I tend to think the teams below us will knee cap each other
But the whole discussion is academic. We aren’t predicting what we think will happen. We are saying what should happen
I think what are clearly Arteta’s negative personality traits…..most of all his monstrous ego are the reason for our failing. I think Guardiola is largely the reason why City went through that horrendous run.
We’ve spent a lot of money to indulge this behaviour. Why I think names are irrelevant is because I don’t think the coach is even that relevant a role. For Real Madrid, they won countless European cups even though the players despised Zidane.
With us, whilst I think the squad is good it’s not good enough to be left to its own devices and be over coached by an egomaniac. It’s not just about player positions, it’s about player temperaments. Any player with any hint of personality or character could not work for someone like Arteta because they’d find the atmosphere stifling. Saka is a good lad but he’s far too laidback to make a beef, Odegaard is a paper tiger. It’s all too easy to over coach them and erase any sense of individuality where players will step up, take personal responsibility and try and make something happen by themselves.
Arteta got rid of anyone with personality, except Xhaka and as I say he was a teacher's petQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/st...CrumbLaugh.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
If I understand you correctly, you don't like Arteta because he is arrogant; you link this arrogance to the superiority of Spanish people, and you are citing as an example of this an alleged state of denial in Spain over Franco. You deny my suggestion that any cultural feeling of superiority in Spain may (as it is in the UK), may be linked to it once being a powerful colonial power - a perfectly reasonable suggestion - by drawing a distinction between the UK - that had not had a direct military dictator (albeit that Cromwell's Protectorate comes close) and Spain. Yet unless you have issues with Germans; Italians; Chinese; many Africans etc who have also suffered dictatorship then I fail to see this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I also have issues with your suggestion that somehow all Spaniards are Franco apologists or deniers. I have lived there and while there is a sense of shame and maybe a traditional reluctance to think about the horrors of the Franco era (it only of course ended very recently in 1975) there are few who either admire or exonerate him. Further, just like in this country, where we have traditionally been in denial over our imperial brutality, this is changing with the modern generation.
Bloody hell - even for on here this is off on a tangent on a football thread :wacko:
The point is, whilst a bit of a generalisation a tendency for those from Iberia (both Portugal and Spain) to have an undeserved sense of smug superiority. And I’m invoking the country’s history to suggest that they have nothing particularly to be smug about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Germany and Italy had an internal reckoning about fascism in their countries, Spain is afraid to do so. That’s not saying the Spanish people support Franco…countless numbers of them are descendants of the victims of his regime. But they belong to a country that can’t be honest with itself about that time
Oliver Cromwell and the authoritarian Monarch were a thing long before universal suffrage. It’s not part of our modern history, and no I don’t think there is this smug superiority about being British. Both the right and the left seem to be in a non aggression pact to tear this country down. And the bellicose imbeciles have always been a minority, patriotism has always been seen as passé amongst the educated classes and working class patriotism snubbed and patronised.
I’ll grant you that this subject is going off at a tangent. It’s merely an observation and an observation you might find quite prevalent in South America who bore the brunt of Iberian superiority
I couldn't agree more mate. You have owned this thread. Further it is even a question of coming up with aspirational names, but looking at the likelihood that any managerial change would improve a team that is currently second in league and has been for the previous 2 seasons. Of course it's possible, but the overwhelming likelihood is that it wouldn't - at least before a few more years of turmoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Does this mean that Areta couldn't be improved on - no. Does it mean that if we fall short of a trophy again this season, the club should not think of a successor? No. But this developing trend of 'grass is greeener' links justified criticism of our manager's shortcomings with a pipe dream that (mostly un-named) saviours will finish the job he set out to do. It also ignores the obvious fact that Arteta remains one of the best managers around.
As you point out, unless we finish outside the top 4 this season, there's no chance of Arteta being sacked by the club, so misgivings or not, we need to get over it.
...and yet this could not have been evidenced any more clearly with the Brexit vote.Quote:
I don’t think there is this smug superiority about being British.
Our way of reckoning with our colonial past is to instill a sense of guilt in white skinned kids about it. I know full well about the East India Company, the British opium wars with China, what we did in Kenya and South Africa as well as the Bengali famine.
I don’t especially feel responsible for any of that, colonial brutality was very much a thing of its time. Then again If people of Indian or Bangladeshi abstraction curse Churchill…well I can’t say I blame them.
I think History should be taught without a moral loadstone, teach what was without trying to suggest we should feel some way about it.
You think? I can only assume you haven’t spoken to many leave voters thenQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
https://tribuna.com/en/news/arsenal-...ing-authority/
A few other blogs are carrying this story that the real reason Edu left was he couldn't stand that Arteta was getting too influential despite his lack of real success. Lets see what more comes out.
What I would say is that if fans don't clearly start showing discontent and start naming names we're going to struggle to push Arteta out, as we all agree that the Kronkes still don't get the culture and are only after the bottom line.
Without other independent minds on the board and the fans making a fuss, Arteta and stodgeball is going no where unless a car crash occurs, which realistically is not on the cards till Saka effs off or becomes ordinary.
You’re an intelligent guy (I know it’s relative to people on here, most of whom if a plastic bag was put over their heads would asphyxiate before working out to take it off) surely you can see how vapid and superficial an argument that is?Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Names don’t matter because Managers/Head coaches are functionaries or at least should be. If a squad is well assembled it largely manages itself. The idea of the manager being this mastermind Generalissimo is a very analogue one and exists only to keep the egos of men like Arteta inflated.
Other independent minds? That would suggest you have an independent mind and aren’t the classic example of the emptiest vessel making the most noise.Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
I’m sorry to be blunt, but you’re literally so incapable of clear thinking that you become immensely threatened by anyone who differs from you to the point where you have to accuse them of holding a polar opposite point of view. That’s not the thinking style of an independent mind. That’s of a braying chest beating tribalist
I am confused, did I get appointed on the board and miss the email :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
To simplify my post above, we can't really expect Arteta to sack himself nor the successor he names to take Edu's job, or can we... but please do go on being the rabid dog you've always been.
I wasn’t confused by your post, I simply had to point out that nothing qualifies you to describe yourself as an independent thinker (which I will admit that you inferred you were rather than explicitly stated)Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
As for Rabid Dog….did you have the mirrors in your house taken down?
Man, you have serious issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
How does one read that post and magically infer that it was about me calling myself an Independent thinker ..... anyway I appreciate the attention, but I really don't bat that way ;).
Also, like people keep suggesting, take a chill pill and read your diatribes, it's really like you're standing in the mirror trying to hurt yourself.
Ah, you had to put the mirror reference yourself :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Another ILT loading.
Do you suffer from selective memory ? Presumably you must not remember the Tantrums you threw over us not signing Mudryk or even the Rice deal taking too long. At least if I go off on one it’s about actual football results not the equivalent of collecting Panini stickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
You keep inferring that my posts are a form of verbal pugilism, but the fact is although I use this site a lot as a distraction it can be frustrating to me how slow people are to understand. I’m not one of these people that would have the patience to teach a chimp sign language, but that feels at time exactly what I’m expected to do.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/...uit-of-empire/Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
There is clearly a case to be made. Like everything there are counter arguments, but it's a persuasive argument to say that our exit from Europe was driven by voters' desire to 'making Britain great again'.
WTF did the initial post you referenced have to do with you or me??Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
My only guess is that what affects your mind is some sort of new sexual deviancy that is yet to be named, just like a replacement for Arteta ;)
If you don’t know what it had to do with you, maybe you shouldn’t have posted it….and go back to flinging faeces aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
I can only explain in so many ways, if you can’t make the bridge in understanding it’s really not my fault. I don’t suppose it’s anyones…it’s just that obviously in your case there was a cul de sac evolution went down
Sexual deviancy?. I don’t know anything about that. If you’re talking about yourself….usually it’s standard practice or was to castrate the intellectually feeble to stop them from procreating. So if you’re assuming that other men are coming on to you, maybe they were remiss when it came time to take away your nuts