Summer transfer joy and happiness

Lucas Perez is bound for Arsenal comeback this summer as he looks to turn around his career | ✍ @jamesbenge https://t.co/2MVRNa0ycX

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Originally Posted by rodders

Seems to me Wenger's situation needs to be resolved so the new man if there is one has an input into departures

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This is the key. Nobody should be coming in, nobody should be going out. Not until Wenger is gone. He has to go or else all of this will be just another summer of fuck-ups.

I don't know why he hasn't been sacked already after such a shambles of a season, on the back of so many other crap seasons. It's fast becoming the greatest mystery in the universe.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Where I would go some way to agreeing with Zim is that I think Wenger became somewhat indifferent to Jack a few years ago. I don't know why precisely and don't need to go into it too much, but I think to an extent he just lost faith and let go of the ideals he held in the 'British core of which Wilshere was arguably the centrepiece of'.

Allowing him to go to Bournemouth demonstrated this indifference and the fact Wilshere both sought and enacted it shows his own feelings were not too dissimilar. If we are setting a precedent with Wilshere fine......but I don't think that is really what we are trying to do here and feel he has been treated differently to other members of the squad which is essentially where his grievance probably stems from. Unfortunately, football is not the realm of the fair and 90k a week standard is still a lot of money. I'll accept the clubs stance but I do feel they should be more flexible. Not out of solely a sense of fairness or being 'just', but for some of the reasons MO has alluded to. He is genuinely an Arsenal boy, a talented Arsenal boy at that and one that would prefer to play for us than not.....unlike most of the rest of them who are simply biding their time and many of whom aren't good enough for where we want to be anyway.

Xhaka is a terrible signing, Ramsey has almost as many injury issues as Wilshere and is yet to sign his deal, Elneny isn't progressive enough and Maitland-Niles isn't being tried out in midfield anyway and there is little transfer talk of us with other midfielders. We flogged our only defensive midfielder a couple months ago to top it too.

It's not saying that much this year but after Ozil and Monreal, Wilshere has probably been the most consistent performer in a horrible season too.

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I hear you and think Wilshere is a good player as he is right now with the potential to be better. But my stance on the wage bill has always been that it's too high and I've always thought we gave too much too soon for most of these players, even the ones I like and wanted to stay at the club. By paying too much too soon, we've boxed ourselves into a corner and we're forced to make hard decisions. Pay these kids around £80k-90k too soon, the next contract you're looking at will be around £100k - £120k the minimum. That's the sort of money where you're not a promising player. That's delivery money. You better deliver the performances on the pitch with that salary or you're out.

I don't think it's just Jack being singled out either. We gambled on Theo, gave him the wages and he didn't live up to the billing and Wenger started looking at him in a different light. He was shown the exit quite quickly and for the first time we saw some public criticism of Theo on his defending and indecision on what position he wants to play. We cut our loses with Gibbs. We're close to cutting the cord on Jenksinon and Chambers. We thought long and hard about offering Ox a new deal and allowed him to get down to his last year. When we finally made an offer, Ox said 'no thanks' and went to Liverpool. For less money! It doesn't look like it's just Jack.

Jack going to Bournemouth is what probably soured the relationship with Wenger. The day he was dropped from the England squad, Jack was desperate to play and decided to move away from Arsenal, his boyhood club. I really like Wilshere. Country should mean more than Club but the fact that he'd up an leave Arsenal to pursue his own agenda must have earned him the side eye from Wenger. I really like Jack and want him to stay but he has to decide what's more important to him. The pay cut story stings a little, but if I were to find out that he wants to earn the same amount of money as the top earners, the narrative changes. I'd definitely start questioning his loyalty to the club. It shouldn't come to that but when money is the only barrier to him staying or going, I can't really stand on him being Arsenal through and through. Heck, I was just saying earlier today that Giroud left for the money and London lifestyle instead of the footballing reasons. To Chelsea of all clubs. He should get more stick for that. If Jack leaves for another club because he doesn't like the contract offer, what does that say about him?

It's not a great situation. I hope he signs the deal. I think it's important we keep players like Jack but it's a two way street.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I hear you and think Wilshere is a good player as he is right now with the potential to be better. But my stance on the wage bill has always been that it's too high and I've always thought we gave too much too soon for most of these players, even the ones I like and wanted to stay at the club. By paying too much too soon, we've boxed ourselves into a corner and we're forced to make hard decisions. Pay these kids around £80k-90k too soon, the next contract you're looking at will be around £100k - £120k the minimum. That's the sort of money where you're not a promising player. That's delivery money. You better deliver the performances on the pitch with that salary or you're out.

I don't think it's just Jack being singled out either. We gambled on Theo, gave him the wages and he didn't live up to the billing and Wenger started looking at him in a different light. He was shown the exit quite quickly and for the first time we saw some public criticism of Theo on his defending and indecision on what position he wants to play. We cut our loses with Gibbs. We're close to cutting the cord on Jenksinon and Chambers. We thought long and hard about offering Ox a new deal and allowed him to get down to his last year. When we finally made an offer, Ox said 'no thanks' and went to Liverpool. For less money! It doesn't look like it's just Jack.

Jack going to Bournemouth is what probably soured the relationship with Wenger. The day he was dropped from the England squad, Jack was desperate to play and decided to move away from Arsenal, his boyhood club. I really like Wilshere. Country should mean more than Club but the fact that he'd up an leave Arsenal to pursue his own agenda must have earned him the side eye from Wenger. I really like Jack and want him to stay but he has to decide what's more important to him. The pay cut story stings a little, but if I were to find out that he wants to earn the same amount of money as the top earners, the narrative changes. I'd definitely start questioning his loyalty to the club. It shouldn't come to that but when money is the only barrier to him staying or going, I can't really stand on him being Arsenal through and through. Heck, I was just saying earlier today that Giroud left for the money and London lifestyle instead of the footballing reasons. To Chelsea of all clubs. He should get more stick for that. If Jack leaves for another club because he doesn't like the contract offer, what does that say about him?

It's not a great situation. I hope he signs the deal. I think it's important we keep players like Jack but it's a two way street.

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:gp:

I’m with you on this. I like Jack, I like the fact he is one of our own and despite his problems with injuries over the years he has come back and delivered decent performances this season.

If we had a plethora of quality options in Central Midfield I wouldn’t be so bothered over the Jack contract situation, we haven’t though and as it stands right now Jack is more than good enough to start for us and is a quality squad / rotation player.

It’s all very well us putting on some principled stance over contract renewals of our existing players but if we don’t have ready made replacements or upgrades lined up then we are just shooting ourselves in the foot.

As it stands, Central Midfield is a major concern for me, the last thing we should be doing is weakening it!

If Wilshere left Arsenal I'd be confident he'll achieve nothing in his career like Walcott, reckon he's vastly overrated and has been hyped something chronic, even at Bournemouth last season he was nothing special before he got injured again, the reality is he's not delivered anything in hs career apart from the odd decent performance (which any player can do), he's been OK this season but let's be honest we've been awful so any half decent performance would stand out.

Incidentally, he's got injured again and won't be playing for England against Holland and may not play against Italy, now there's a surprise! :lol:

For me if he leaves I won't be fussed, I don't think he has the discipline or attitude to make it at the top level, he's definitely not grounded enough for someone who hasn't achieved anything, if he's only interested in momey then let him move, he needs to show some loyalty IMO after years of us carrying him on big wages, like I said he can earn more than he does now if he stays fit and performs, trouble is he's not interested, he wants his guaranteed basic for the easy life, so there's no pressure for him to actually perform on the pitch. Our CM is rubbish with or without him in the team tbh, we need to start again there.

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Originally Posted by Vieira

Lucas Perez is bound for Arsenal comeback this summer as he looks to turn around his career | ✍ @jamesbenge https://t.co/2MVRNa0ycX

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i must admit, i thought we'd sold him outright, but either way does he really want to be frozen out by Wenger a second time?

he could do better than that surely - I thought he looked good on teh odd occasion he actually played, but Wenger won't give him any chances so he'd be better off going elsewhere i'd have thought

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I hear you and think Wilshere is a good player as he is right now with the potential to be better. But my stance on the wage bill has always been that it's too high and I've always thought we gave too much too soon for most of these players, even the ones I like and wanted to stay at the club. By paying too much too soon, we've boxed ourselves into a corner and we're forced to make hard decisions. Pay these kids around £80k-90k too soon, the next contract you're looking at will be around £100k - £120k the minimum. That's the sort of money where you're not a promising player. That's delivery money. You better deliver the performances on the pitch with that salary or you're out.

I don't think it's just Jack being singled out either. We gambled on Theo, gave him the wages and he didn't live up to the billing and Wenger started looking at him in a different light. He was shown the exit quite quickly and for the first time we saw some public criticism of Theo on his defending and indecision on what position he wants to play. We cut our loses with Gibbs. We're close to cutting the cord on Jenksinon and Chambers. We thought long and hard about offering Ox a new deal and allowed him to get down to his last year. When we finally made an offer, Ox said 'no thanks' and went to Liverpool. For less money! It doesn't look like it's just Jack.

Jack going to Bournemouth is what probably soured the relationship with Wenger. The day he was dropped from the England squad, Jack was desperate to play and decided to move away from Arsenal, his boyhood club. I really like Wilshere. Country should mean more than Club but the fact that he'd up an leave Arsenal to pursue his own agenda must have earned him the side eye from Wenger. I really like Jack and want him to stay but he has to decide what's more important to him. The pay cut story stings a little, but if I were to find out that he wants to earn the same amount of money as the top earners, the narrative changes. I'd definitely start questioning his loyalty to the club. It shouldn't come to that but when money is the only barrier to him staying or going, I can't really stand on him being Arsenal through and through. Heck, I was just saying earlier today that Giroud left for the money and London lifestyle instead of the footballing reasons. To Chelsea of all clubs. He should get more stick for that. If Jack leaves for another club because he doesn't like the contract offer, what does that say about him?

It's not a great situation. I hope he signs the deal. I think it's important we keep players like Jack but it's a two way street.

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I think it was more than just going to Bournemouth though. Wenger is one of the best managers at not holding a grudge and putting his feelings aside when it comes to his own players. As I think you have pointed out in a previous post...he has welcomed back Flamini with open arms amongst others in the past despite the way he left and losing him in his prime.

Not sure if it was just something behind the scenes or just one of those things....maybe we'll find out one day in the fabled 'book' but until then we can endlessly speculate for years to come!

I hope he signs too, but it looks like he is well prepared to leave and not just calling out bluff.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I think it was more than just going to Bournemouth though. Wenger is one of the best managers at not holding a grudge and putting his feelings aside when it comes to his own players. As I think you have pointed out in a previous post...he has welcomed back Flamini with open arms amongst others in the past despite the way he left and losing him in his prime.

Not sure if it was just something behind the scenes or just one of those things....maybe we'll find out one day in the fabled 'book' but until then we can endlessly speculate for years to come!

I hope he signs too, but it looks like he is well prepared to leave and not just calling out bluff.

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Vieira made the point about Flamini being welcomed back. But I responded to that. Wenger would never have welcomed Flamini back if he wasn't available on a free transfer and training with us. He'll put aside a grudge if it's a cheap deal. But when it came to having the opportunity to bring Cesc back and pair him with Ozil, he rejected the moves.

Besides the Bournemouth move, Jack was caught smoking and partying on two separate occasions in one season. Wenger has a limit and will get rid of you if you keep taking the piss. Look how quickly Theo was taken out of the first team after his public comments. Chesney was given the boot for smoking in the showers and wasn't recalled from loan. Gibbs is another one shown the door quite quickly...

I hope Jack stays but it's really down to him. He's not in a good position and after picking up ankther injury whilst on England duty, he better hope the Arsenal offer is still on the table.

Something doesn't add up with this Wilshere situation. This is a guy that gives players with a broken back contracts.

Jack is his little pet. He's invested so much time and effort in him, and now he's supposedly had enough of him? It just doesn't make sense. There has to be more to it.

I don't think Arsenal will rescind the offer...but yes his position certainly isn't strengthened by a timely injury that could actually work in our favour.#

Re: Vieira's last comment. I think he has been indifferent to Jack for some time. He was a similar way with Coquelin too before he had a stormer....then when that ended, Wenger was indifferent to him again.