When will Arteta be sacked by

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Originally Posted by Mac76

:gp:

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https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/st...CrumbLaugh.jpg

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Thanks mate, but I preferred the way it was before.

Also, I think naming names does help speedup ending our relationship with Arteta. Its the same reason I (and everyone else) knows Anceloti is leaving Madrid this summer despite having a contract till 2026, it because Alonso's name keeps coming up over and over again.

Also, look at it like a proper relationship, its always easier for you to breakup and move on when you are certain of who is waiting in the wings. Also if your partner had self-respect and started hearing rumours, they'd drop you like a bad habit.....or mends their ways if they are the really desperate type.

Anyway, the philanderer wins in both situations :)

Probably why Madrid has been so successful.

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Fair enough, whist I understand where you are coming from, it's not the be all, end all of the point of the matter. I just think it's a response used by fans against other fans to mask the issue at the time rather than all fans collectively acknowledging that there is a problem.

I would take Zidane personally as Ancelotti is getting on a bit now.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

That and as I’ve repeatedly stated, it’s reductive and misses the point

The point I feel is not that Arteta has missed out on the title because he’s tactically inadequate, it’s because he is risk adverse, egomaniacal and needs to control things.

Liverpool I can only think every day that their fans must pinch themselves in disbelief that not only have City collapsed but that we stalled on the grid. I cannot imagine any of the fan base felt confident when the greatest coach that club has had since Bob Paisley decided to call it quits, but then again we know Leicester City fans felt in 2015 that it was more likely that they’d be battling relegation than fighting for the title…strange things can happen.

I know I’ve dismissed the role of coach but I think there’s just no way I’d have been as dismissive of Liverpool if Klopp was there even with the squad that Salah, Jota and Van Dijk aside isn’t that impressive.

But still though, even with the HUGE drag factor of Arteta I did expect when the Rodri news dropped on 23rd September that as long as Arteta didn’t try to interfere we’d be champions in May. I think that sense of certainty dissipated a week or so later when I saw the team we put out against Southampton. It was clear to me that Arteta would interfere with almost capricious stupidity.

I was hoping I was wrong, but the Liverpool game, the Newcastle game (the away game not the league cup game I don’t care about nothing trophies) the Fulham game, the Everton game, The Brighton game. That’s 11 points that have been flushed down the shitter because of his hubris, his stubbornness and his incompetence.

I want him gone because to fail so spectacularly when we might never have a better chance to win the league again for a long time has to have consequences. Obviously he didn’t do it out of malice, but if you make a major mistake at work that costs the company millions it’s only fair that your job should be forfeit

So for me it’s less about who will take us forward and more about Justice.

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Whilst I understand and agree with those points to an extent, I would say the ending is where we differ.

I am more concerned with how we will improve going forward, ultimately being successful as a club and start winning trophies again.

Surely you looking for 'justice' is chasing a morality construct rather than a sporting one?

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Whilst I understand and agree with those points to an extent, I would say the ending is where we differ.

I am more concerned with how we will improve going forward, ultimately being successful as a club and start winning trophies again.

Surely you looking for 'justice' is chasing a morality construct rather than a sporting one?

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I want us clearly to do well going forward and I think Arteta is a barrier to that


What I’m saying is additional to that, failure has to have consequences. Even in criminal law people are liable for neglect.

And when a club doesn’t punish this failure, it’s telling us it’s ok it doesn’t matter. When it’s not ok

But then again I accept that this is all very Ernst Stavro Blofeld “this organisation does not tolerate failure” with all that entails - being kicked in the leg with poison tipped spiked shoes, being electrocuted by a booby trapped chair or stepping over a bridge that collapses half way across and falling into a swimming pool full of piranhas.

And whilst in the back of my mind these are all amusing ideas. I can’t rationally say Arteta actually deserves such an elaborate fate

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I want us clearly to do well going forward and I think Arteta is a barrier to that


What I’m saying is additional to that, failure has to have consequences. Even in criminal law people are liable for neglect.

And when a club doesn’t punish this failure, it’s telling us it’s ok it doesn’t matter. When it’s not ok

But then again I accept that this is all very Ernst Stavro Blofeld “this organisation does not tolerate failure” with all that entails - being kicked in the leg with poison tipped spiked shoes, being electrocuted by a booby trapped chair or stepping over a bridge that collapses half way across and falling into a swimming pool full of piranhas.

And whilst in the back of my mind these are all amusing ideas. I can’t rationally say Arteta actually deserves such an elaborate fate

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We probably don't have the budget for all those ideas of punishment anyway :)

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

We probably don't have the budget for all those ideas of punishment anyway :)

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The upkeep of Piranha fish alone…

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I want us clearly to do well going forward and I think Arteta is a barrier to that


What I’m saying is additional to that, failure has to have consequences. Even in criminal law people are liable for neglect.

And when a club doesn’t punish this failure, it’s telling us it’s ok it doesn’t matter. When it’s not ok

But then again I accept that this is all very Ernst Stavro Blofeld “this organisation does not tolerate failure” with all that entails - being kicked in the leg with poison tipped spiked shoes, being electrocuted by a booby trapped chair or stepping over a bridge that collapses half way across and falling into a swimming pool full of piranhas.

And whilst in the back of my mind these are all amusing ideas. I can’t rationally say Arteta actually deserves such an elaborate fate

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People saying that Arteta has 'failed' to date are in my view being hysterical. Coming 2nd by 2 points last season against what was then arguably the best team in the world is not failure. This season is not, as yet, a failure.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The upkeep of Piranha fish alone…

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Exactly, and a bridge that collapses half way...... urgh the sheer mechanics and maintenance!

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Originally Posted by IBK

People saying that Arteta has 'failed' to date are in my view being hysterical. Coming 2nd by 2 points last season against what was then arguably the best team in the world is not failure. This season is not, as yet, a failure.

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I use the word failure very specifically to this season. Now I could be guilty of providing a post mortem far too soon. But I don’t think anyone realistically is expecting us to win the title now. We have of course the more favourable fixtures but we have horrendous injuries, attackers that are not performing and I’ve seen nothing that suggests we are learning from mistakes.

I leave the figurative fellatio being done on Liverpool to others. I specifically stated that 23rd September and the news that Rodri would be out for the season was our green light to win the title in May. There’s no guarantees in life, but in my view was more than an aspiration it was an expectation. Not that we could win the title but that we should win the title.


The past two seasons and what we did or didn’t achieve then isn’t relevant to me. It’s what we’ve failed to do this season

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Originally Posted by IBK

People saying that Arteta has 'failed' to date are in my view being hysterical. Coming 2nd by 2 points last season against what was then arguably the best team in the world is not failure. This season is not, as yet, a failure.

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Agreed. I don't think Arteta has failed so far. I guess the question in my mind is can he get us over the line? That's the bit I'm struggling with, this season is feeling like a slog. That said as I've noted elsewhere, we were actually in a very similar position at this point last season, so...
I'm not convinced Arteta can land us the biggest trophies but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Agreed. I don't think Arteta has failed so far. I guess the question in my mind is can he get us over the line? That's the bit I'm struggling with, this season is feeling like a slog. That said as I've noted elsewhere, we were actually in a very similar position at this point last season, so...
I'm not convinced Arteta can land us the biggest trophies but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

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It’s not completely set in stone, but in my view failure to win the title is failure with a capital F. And whilst I haven’t fully conceded the title race as over, I am figuratively in the process of drafting a concession speech

Which I guess would make me a better person than Donald Trump in 2020

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Which I guess would make me a better person than Donald Trump in 2020

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That's the lowest bar since the one on the Titanic.

It is hard to see past Liverpool, but...as we've noted we've got the easier fixtures, they are surely going to have a wobble at some point. They're a Salah injury or dip in form away from that.
It ain't over till it's over #Rocky.

I’m thinking It Ain’t over till it’s over by Lenny Kravitz, which always for me feels like a tacit admission that it is in fact over….and just waiting confirmation

Bye.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Bye.

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Bye.

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Are you going somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Bye.

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I’m imagining that was said in a Snake from the Simpsons voice

Anyway what id do if i was Kroenke and actually cared about the club

Get my idiot son on the next available Red Eye flight to London (if he’s not there already) and tell him to summon Arteta in tomorrow morning at London Colney, to tell him his contract has been terminated and that he has precisely one hour to pack up his stuff, say his goodbyes and get off the premises before he’s escorted off by security.

Then I’m bringing Rosicky (or someone like that) in as a caretaker for the rest of the season pending a search for a long term replacement.

I would instruct that if possible Nelson and Vieira are recalled from loan (Nelson might have the first touch of Lenny from Of Mice and Men but we need bodies at the moment) and a striker located and fees and wages sorted within the next three days (won’t be in time to play Spurs but get the guy here and registered for the Villa game).

On a personal level, I’d have the club stop playing that atrocious poorly written cringe my spine out song prior to matches. And have Win re-homed, because a training ground is a place of work not a petting zoo.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Anyway what id do if i was Kroenke and actually cared about the club

Get my idiot son on the next available Red Eye flight to London (if he’s not there already) and tell him to summon Arteta in tomorrow morning at London Colney, to tell him his contract has been terminated and that he has precisely one hour to pack up his stuff, say his goodbyes and get off the premises before he’s escorted off by security.

Then I’m bringing Rosicky (or someone like that) in as a caretaker for the rest of the season pending a search for a long term replacement.

I would instruct that if possible Nelson and Vieira are recalled from loan (Nelson might have the first touch of Lenny from Of Mice and Men but we need bodies at the moment) and a striker located and fees and wages sorted within the next three days (won’t be in time to play Spurs but get the guy here and registered for the Villa game).

On a personal level, I’d have the club stop playing that atrocious poorly written cringe my spine out song prior to matches. And have Win re-homed, because a training ground is a place of work not a petting zoo.

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Brilliant!! :clap:

Arteta will be here a dozen years and wont win anything of value. Told you that 5 years ago. We will hopefully live to see the back of this clown. There is no there, there. Club leading the fans on a road to nowhere as always

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Arteta will be here a dozen years and wont win anything of value. Told you that 5 years ago. We will hopefully live to see the back of this clown. There is no there, there. Club leading the fans on a road to nowhere as always

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:lol: A very high percentage of managers fail anyway, and Arteta hasn’t been manager anywhere else, he had no pedigree at this level. You don’t get any spidey sense points for that “prediction”.
Overall he’s done pretty well. He’s made us into genuine contenders. We are the only side to have even challenged City for the last 2 seasons and last year we pushed them to the last day. We got 89 points, our second best in the PL, only one point off The Invincibles. Arteta hasn’t been the abject failure you presumably predicted.
That said, it seems increasingly clear that Arteta isn’t going to get us over the line. I bear him no ill will, but we do need to move on from him. Although I agree we probably won’t.

I know that I am always guilty of bringing up this thread after we have been embarrassed by a mid table team. However, how long will the Krankees put up with Arteta? £750m spent and one FA cup. It's just not good enough.

I simultaneously think that Arteta should be sacked for not winning us the title this season - or at the very least making Liverpool work for it - and think that this isn't all his fault. He made some comments which sounded like he was somewhat frustrated at our lack of transfer dealings in January, this isn't all on him.
But enough of it is to make me think he should go. I don't think he's going to land us a big trophy.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I simultaneously think that Arteta should be sacked for not winning us the title this season - or at the very least making Liverpool work for it - and think that this isn't all his fault. He made some comments which sounded like he was somewhat frustrated at our lack of transfer dealings in January, this isn't all on him.
But enough of it is to make me think he should go. I don't think he's going to land us a big trophy.

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The summer window is on him and he let Auba go without replacing him, unless you consider Sterling as a replacement. Even then, he had from the summer to January to plan for the interim window. Yetit seemed we were scrabbling around at the last minute to sign Watkins. It's a bit like a guy driving towards a brick wall at speed but only taking action when the car hits the wall.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The summer window is on him

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Is it, though?
I don't know the answer to that, but I thought that was Edu's job.
I'm sure Arteta gets to input into it, but he's not the one making the deals. This is not like back in the day when Fergie or Wenger would talk to someone directly, I'm not sure it works like that any more.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is it, though?
I don't know the answer to that, but I thought that was Edu's job.
I'm sure Arteta gets to input into it, but he's not the one making the deals. This is not like back in the day when Fergie or Wenger would talk to someone directly, I'm not sure it works like that any more.

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It starts with the manager, he's got to build the squad. Edu and the executives aren't going to buy and sell players off their own backs, the primary consideration will be what the manager tells them he needs. There will be other considerations, like the finances, willingness of transfer targets to join, personal terms, etc, but it all starts with the manager. How did we end up with Sterling? The only way you can let Arteta off the hook for that one is if he was demanding a top quality forward but the people responsible refused. You could say they couldn't get anyone regardless of how hard they tried, but we used that excuse in the January window.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is it, though?
I don't know the answer to that, but I thought that was Edu's job.
I'm sure Arteta gets to input into it, but he's not the one making the deals. This is not like back in the day when Fergie or Wenger would talk to someone directly, I'm not sure it works like that any more.

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Well by all accounts it was Edu & Arteta that were responsible for transfer targets.

I dont think that a point at Forest last night was a terrible result considering we have no strikers.

However, we need to keep an eye out over our shoulder for the pack chasing top four.

If we fail there, Arteta will certainly be gone in the summer.

I'm not sure you're right there mate. Arteta will (rightly) point to the injuries we have suffered as a reason, and I don't think there is any appetite from the owners or board to sack him whatever happens.

I think we will still make top four, given that we start getting players back next month. Even if we get draws in our next 4 games - that should still be enough.

I think we are 'stuck' with Arteta for another season...but if he fails to win the silverware next season, I think he will probably walk.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

I dont think that a point at Forest last night was a terrible result considering we have no strikers.

However, we need to keep an eye out over our shoulder for the pack chasing top four.

If we fail there, Arteta will certainly be gone in the summer.

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It wasn’t a bad result and we actually played fairly well all things considered. This is because we are still a good team and despite being incredibly underwhelming all season we have remained tough to beat and sit a comfortable 2nd.

Without a forward line though, there’s little chance of winning most games no matter how well we play and because of this I’m not certain about top 4 yet.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

It wasn’t a bad result and we actually played fairly well all things considered. This is because we are still a good team and despite being incredibly underwhelming all season we have remained tough to beat and sit a comfortable 2nd.

Without a forward line though, there’s little chance of winning most games no matter how well we play.

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This is what I’ve been saying all day, and I’m treated like I’ve been treading dog shit into the carpet in peoples living rooms

I even tried being nice. For all the good it did me :lol:

I want Arteta to go because I don’t like him, I would say he’s passive aggressive but he’s been more plain aggressive in interviews of late when interviewers dare ask him if it’s just possible that lack of strikers might be contributing to our lack of goals. What a prick, he’s bare minimum partly responsible for this state of affairs…no point getting aggy with others for pointing to your own failings.

But I think barring a calamity we will qualify for the champions league next season, we still have very good players and we are only a few attacking signings and yes a very tactical tweaks away from being a team that can compete for the premier league and champions league. If I’m Stan Kroenke I’m probably not going to be making waves this summer.

But the patience of the fan base is not eternal, if we waste this summer like last summer and we have another season like this one. They will demand his head and although as I believe Mac has pointed out that there’s a large number of match going fans who will attend rain or shine (and I think that’s definitely true) I think there’s definitely a good chance another large group of fans will vote with their feet (especially if there is a season ticket hike and promises from the club turn out to be empty).

He’s not quite on thin ice, but the permafrost is diminishing

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Originally Posted by IBK

I'm not sure you're right there mate. Arteta will (rightly) point to the injuries we have suffered as a reason, and I don't think there is any appetite from the owners or board to sack him whatever happens.

I think we will still make top four, given that we start getting players back next month. Even if we get draws in our next 4 games - that should still be enough.

I think we are 'stuck' with Arteta for another season...but if he fails to win the silverware next season, I think he will probably walk.

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I don't believe Arteta's ego will allow him to voluntarily leave us under any condition that doesn't recognise he has been a success. What I mean is, he'd only leave us if he feels he has achieved what he came for and won a significant trophy with us, or a better job came calling.

Now IMO, the only team that could offer the latter to him based on his current achievements, and also fits the description of being "above us" is Citeh, and that's only if Pep walks, which is becoming more and more likely (Pep won't be sacked). The problem with this is that Citeh might be in the Championship by then due to the penalties they are likely to face.

So in short, I don't see any scenario where Arteta walks voluntarily, at this rate he'll need to be pushed out like Wenger.... in fact, that empty "over my dead body" line really felt deja vuish to me..... it was probably sent to him in their WhatsApp group :lol:

In fairness to Arteta (and I’ve no reason to be) I don’t think any manager would walk voluntarily. Most instances where a manager leaves the club by his own volition, it’s by “mutual consent” where an informal agreement is made where by the coach wavers the money he’d be owed for the rest of his contract in exchange for a one time pay off or there are personal reasons.

So yes you’re right, I don’t think Arteta will walk unless there’s an imminent offer from another club

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

that empty "over my dead body" line really felt deja vuish to me..... it was probably sent to him in their WhatsApp group :lol:

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that made me cringe, it's pathetic and will just make people laugh, a childish defiance that has no basis in reality, he should have said 'it's tough but we'll ceretainly keep fighting for every point' or something, just to show he does actually live on planet Earth

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Originally Posted by Mac76

that made me cringe, it's pathetic and will just make people laugh, a childish defiance that has no basis in reality, he should have said 'it's tough but we'll ceretainly keep fighting for every point' or something, just to show he does actually live on planet Earth

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Hmmm time for Comical Arteta t-shirts or is that reference too old for the kids ?

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

In fairness to Arteta (and I’ve no reason to be) I don’t think any manager would walk voluntarily. Most instances where a manager leaves the club by his own volition, it’s by “mutual consent” where an informal agreement is made where by the coach wavers the money he’d be owed for the rest of his contract in exchange for a one time pay off or there are personal reasons.

So yes you’re right, I don’t think Arteta will walk unless there’s an imminent offer from another club

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I think you are being overly generous to him in your first few lines.

I am a bit old school, and believe any manager that has real ties to a club and claims to be accepted like "family" should actually repay fans back by walking when he realises he can't give them what they want consistently.

I mean like when Liverpool was a dominant force and their coaches were from within, most of them seemed to resign at the top when they felt they couldn't take the pressure or simply got tired of winning.

Then we've got King Kev, who resigned from Newcastle twice. The first after unsuccessful title challenges (which he should really have won TBH) and the second time immediately after a transfer window when the board signed a player without his approval.

Probably I'm still a football romantic, but I believe if you've got cult status at a club because of either what you did for them in the past or current successes you've had with them, you owe it to the fanbase and more importantly yourself to leave when deep down you know you did your best and its clearly not good enough to achieve what people realistically expect.

When I think about it, maybe it more of a foreign thing where you refuse to go until you are sacked, I mean Mourinho had the same failing as Wenger in both his spells at Chelsea.

However I really do believe Pep will leave on his own volition just like Klop did to protect his cult status (and probably because he knows deep down, it's better for the club).

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I think you are being overtly generous to him in your first few lines.

I am a bit old school, and believe any manager that has real ties to a club and claims to be accepted like "family" should actually repay fans back by walking when he realises he can't give them what they want consistently.

I mean like when Liverpool was a dominant force and their coaches were from within, most of them seemed to resign at the top when they felt they couldn't take the pressure or simply got tired of winning.

Then we've got King Kev, who resigned from Newcastle twice. The first after unsuccessful title challenges (which he should really have won TBH) and the second time immediately after a transfer window when the board signed a player without his approval.

Probably I'm still a football romantic, but I believe if you've got cult status at a club because of either what you did for them in the past or current successes you've had with them, you owe it to the fanbase and more importantly yourself to leave when deep down you know you did your best and its clearly not good enough to achieve what people realistically expect.

When I think about it, maybe it more of a foreign thing where you refuse to go until you are sacked, I mean Mourinho had the same failing as Wenger in both his spells at Chelsea.

However I really do believe Pep will leave on his own volition just like Klop did to protect his cult status (and probably because he knows deep down, it's better for the club).

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What’s it Wenger once said to an interviewer tongue in cheek, in response to something cynical his Arsenal side had done during a game


“I don’t say you are too romantic but you are romantic”

Man he stayed too long, but I genuinely liked and still do like the guy

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

What’s it Wenger once said to an interviewer tongue in cheek, in response to something cynical his Arsenal side had done during a game


“I don’t say you are too romantic but you are romantic”

Man he stayed too long, but I genuinely liked and still do like the guy

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We all do, no matter what he did, he's family, and no one can get away with saying anything less.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

We all do, no matter what he did, he's family, and no one can get away with saying anything less.

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I have no doubt even if he wins the title with us, Arteta won’t garner the same fondness as Wenger. Frankly he could win more than Wenger and that would be the case.

A bit like how Federer and Nadal will be more loved by Tennis fans than Djokovic even though Djokovic has the most grand slams

But, I’m also pretty sure that looking back in hindsight we probably won’t feel the animus and frustration. It’s like how every current prime minister is the worst prime minister ever.

This season will be forgiven if he comes good next season, but I think as IBK said he’s gonna have to come good. Because the general fan base that have been more patient with him than you, I or others have been……their patience isn’t inexhaustible.