Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

This piece seesaws a little but overall interesting to read. I hope he's wrong about Berta being completely subservient to Arteta, I'd been hoping that wouldn't be the case

https://www.le-grove.co.uk/p/arsenal...-around-a-king

---

Whilst he may have some good points, I don't necessarily agree that Berta is just gonna sit there and be a yes man to do Arteta's bidding.
No doubt he would have some assurances in place that he will have some say over the future direction the club will take.
Ultimately we want to win trophies and they have brought in, arguably, the best person to do that in terms of recruitment.

I think the article is overly negative and dismissive of the pros this appointment will bring. The game has changed on the transfer front for us now.

He also forgets to mention this (from the Athletic article)

Quote:

---

"It’s a testament to the attractiveness of Arsenal that even those candidates with concerns were prepared to explore the role."

---

So, they were not completely put off the idea of working under Arteta.
I also don't agree that a Sporting Director that is in charge of everything (including the manager) is the defacto, correct way to go about things either.
It's a 'it's not right or wrong' thing for me.

Yeah all fair, and I don't think it's a very consistent article but then it's just a fan thing

tbh I've only just been able to read the Athletic article itself

that said if it's true other candidates were put off by the level of Arteta's involvement with selection then that's maybe a concern

I'm not sure where I am whether a DOF should be fully above the coach but at the very least they should be equals

Anyway I see we're playing Spuds in a 'friendly' in Hong Kong this summer - I'd prefer it if we were playing a team of some kind of decent standing but there you go...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

Yeah all fair, and I don't think it's a very consistent article but then it's just a fan thing

tbh I've only just been able to read the Athletic article itself

that said if it's true other candidates were put off by the level of Arteta's involvement with selection then that's maybe a concern

I'm not sure where I am whether a DOF should be fully above the coach but at the very least they should be equals

---

I agree

24 years since Rocky passed.
How the utter fuck is it that long?

:rose:

RIP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

Anyway I see we're playing Spuds in a 'friendly' in Hong Kong this summer - I'd prefer it if we were playing a team of some kind of decent standing but there you go...

---

They're not even trying to hide any more that pre-season these days isn't about preparing for the new season, they're now nothing more then exercises in building fanbase and therefore generating income from various far-flung parts of the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

They're not even trying to hide any more that pre-season these days isn't about preparing for the new season, they're now nothing more then exercises in building fanbase and therefore generating income from various far-flung parts of the world.

---

It’s also nothing new, I think Wenger fought against it somewhat and that’s why for years we seemed to always have our pre-season in some obscure part of Austria.

But even under George Graham there were pre-season tours of the far east. Even then shirt sales and building a global fanbase was a thing….the addition was that it was also something of a holiday for the players to allow them to “let their hair down”.

But no such luck for current crop, I’m not saying making racial slurs to Thai hookers is a particularly nice thing to do….but I felt the reaction to the Leicester City pre season tour was over the top given that although prostitution is technically illegal it’s also a massive booming industry that operates in the grey area of the law.

Again not saying Arsenal players should be indulging in this vice, I’m just saying that a club of Arsenal’s standing means that every minute of the players time will be taken up either training, playing matches or doing some kind of highly scripted fan outreach

We were behind the curve for a decade with these tours because of Wenger stubbornly refusing to budge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

We were behind the curve for a decade with these tours because of Wenger stubbornly refusing to budge.

---

I remember at the time thinking he was being stubborn, now? I kind of think he was right

Now everyone is at it and the commercial benefits aren’t as important because of TV money exploding into another stratosphere. Back in the 00’s though where the club was a bit hamstrung with the stadium we definitely could have done better in this area.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/big-match

:lol:

Us :doh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

https://www.arsenal.com/news/big-match

:lol:

Us :doh:

---

Hmmm

I don’t think I’ve ever dated someone who was interested in football. I consider that a good thing, I try and avoid discussing football and politics with the ladies….largely because it’s where my contrarian streak comes out.

I remember doing speed dating once for a laugh, and woman who was more into me than me her was boasting how she’d done this before and asked this guy how he’d voted in the 2016 referendum and was pleased with herself when after he said he’d voted leave, he couldn’t explain why he had. Instead of turning the tables on her and getting her to explain why she’d voted remain (all vibes I could tell) I just said “oh right” and smiled.

I voted Remain but I remember refusing to tell people in my office which way I thought they should vote. And I find nothing more obnoxious, smug or an indication of a false sense of superiority than judging other people on how they vote.

This was someone who made a point of telling me that her closest friends were a gay couple, as if it was a badge of honour. And I remember thinking “do you like them for them, or do you like being the type of person who says my best friends are gay”. I also thought I bet they don’t return her phone calls :haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think I’ve ever dated someone who was interested in football. I consider that a good thing, I try and avoid discussing football and politics with the ladies….largely because it’s where my contrarian streak comes out.

---

You're shitting me!

Quote:

---

I remember doing speed dating once for a laugh, and woman who was more into me than me her was boasting how she’d done this before and asked this guy how he’d voted in the 2016 referendum and was pleased with herself when after he said he’d voted leave, he couldn’t explain why he had. Instead of turning the tables on her and getting her to explain why she’d voted remain (all vibes I could tell) I just said “oh right” and smiled.
I voted Remain but I remember refusing to tell people in my office which way I thought they should vote. And I find nothing more obnoxious, smug or an indication of a false sense of superiority than judging other people on how they vote.

---

I think it's valid to ask someone why they voted a certain way.
I also think it's valid to judge someone based on that reason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I think it's valid to ask someone why they voted a certain way.
I also think it's valid to judge someone based on that reason

---

Likewise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

You're shitting me!


I think it's valid to ask someone why they voted a certain way.
I also think it's valid to judge someone based on that reason

---

I don’t think it’s even valid to ask someone how they voted in the first place, if they volunteer the information fine but otherwise mind your fucking business.

People who voted Remain or voted Leave, you can tell with many of them it’s less about understanding the issue than about trying to communicate a certain cultural vibe. I find that people no matter what side they are on, who judge other people on how they vote are a) not particularly very bright, you don’t have to agree with something in order to understand it b) you wonder how actually wedded to democracy they are when they think there’s a correct and incorrect option to vote for.


If the bloke had gone on about voting leave and had put the woman on the spot about why she voted Remain, he’d have been the prick in my view. And that’s why I decided not to give her a taste of her own medicine

Ultimately I find I have more respect for people who told me (volunteered the information, rather than me asking them) that they didn’t feel they knew enough to make such a decision. Far wiser to admit what you don’t know than to pretend you know, act superior because you think you’re one of the smart people and thumb your nose at others

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think it’s even valid to ask someone how they voted in the first place

---

Of course it is. It's equally valid for them to decline to answer.

Quote:

---

I find that people no matter what side they are on, who judge other people on how they vote are

---

I'm more interested in why people voted a certain way.
If you voted to leave because you don't like all them foreigners and a bus told you to then you're an idiot.
If you voted to remain because you thought the sky would fall in if we left then you're also an idiot.

Quote:

---

Ultimately I find I have more respect for people who told me (volunteered the information, rather than me asking them) that they didn’t feel they knew enough to make such a decision.

---

That is actually most people. Which is why there shouldn't have been a referendum, IMO.
Or at least not a vague "shall we stay where we are or shall we move house" one, when there was no indication of where we were moving to. One said said it was a shack with no roof, the other said it was a mansion in the sunlit uplands. Neither were true.

If you read Tim Shipman’s book on Brexit All out War, Cameron nor Osbourne wanted a referendum either…but basically the backbench Tories had made it clear that he should have called for a referendum on the signing of the Lisbon Treaty when leader of the opposition and that failure to call a referendum would result in a leadership challenge (which he’d probably lose)

I think it was probably inevitable anyway, given that had a referendum not been promised I think the Tories wouldn’t have got a majority (albeit slim) in 2015, and both Labour and the Tories would have lost seats to UKIP.

This was a time of increased nationalism including the SNP taking almost every seat in Scotland (the SNP might regard themselves as socially progressive, but the proposition of independence was much the same as Brexit)


So whilst i tend to agree in principle that especially given we are a representative democracy, that referendum was both unnecessary and unwise. I don’t think there was any getting away from one.

You can ask someone what colour underwear they are wearing, but it’s kind of bad form. I see it the same with asking people how they voted, unless you’re conducting a survey for an exit poll. You have to ask yourself why you need to know, ultimately if people want to tell you how they voted they will tell you. I look at it from the counsellors perspective, if you ask a client a deeply personal question are they really volunteering that information freely or do they feel like because of the power imbalance that they feel they have to answer.

I voted Remain, and I suspect if we entered a worm hole that took us back to 2016 I’d vote the same way again (although similarly whilst I’d probably vote to rejoin the single market, I wouldn’t vote to rejoin the EU)

Politics has always been more tribal than policy based anyway. Back in the 1950s my maternal grandmother told her husband she was voting Labour but secretly voted Tory. It wasn’t until the fraying of the post war consensus that there was that much difference between the parties. When Churchill got back in, in 1951 he did not overturn any of the changes the Atlee government brought in (it’s not widely known but even if the Tories had been elected in 1945 it’s likely there would still have been a National Health service as there was a white paper about such a plan).
It was really more a case of this far and no further…that and differences over social policy. The Tories were in the main still pro capital punishment, where as Labour was becoming increasingly more abolitionist (and they were in tune with public opinion which was against it from the mid 50s onward)

Being a working class Tory was about patriotism, and the left of Labour to this day still misunderstands the pull of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Whilst he may have some good points, I don't necessarily agree that Berta is just gonna sit there and be a yes man to do Arteta's bidding.
No doubt he would have some assurances in place that he will have some say over the future direction the club will take.
Ultimately we want to win trophies and they have brought in, arguably, the best person to do that in terms of recruitment.

I think the article is overly negative and dismissive of the pros this appointment will bring. The game has changed on the transfer front for us now.

He also forgets to mention this (from the Athletic article)


So, they were not completely put off the idea of working under Arteta.
I also don't agree that a Sporting Director that is in charge of everything (including the manager) is the defacto, correct way to go about things either.
It's a 'it's not right or wrong' thing for me.

---

What puts the article in perspective is that Le Grove is a big Arteta cheerleader so on the surface at least for him to be concerned about this appointment because of the power it gives Arteta is certainly interesting.

However it’s not like he’s ever been uncritical of Arteta, he clearly feels that Arteta does not seem to deal well with Load management. But equally I think he’s also concerned about replicating a situation that we were in in Wenger’s last ten years which was essentially a power grab and that KSE are ok with this happening again because it means they can take a more hands off approach (which makes sense when you consider that to them Arsenal is a financial asset rather than a sporting project).

As for the evidence for these fears, I simply don’t know….i don’t know the type of working relationship he had with Diego Simeone at Atletico, I don’t know the reason why Berta left the club. I also don’t know whether Le Grove has hard evidence that other prospective candidates turned down Arsenal because of the setup they were being asked to work under (but equally it wouldn’t surprise me given what went before under Wenger)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

You're shitting me!


I think it's valid to ask someone why they voted a certain way.
I also think it's valid to judge someone based on that reason

---

What's the point when usually the person asking the question will instantly disagree with the answer no matter what it is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t think it’s even valid to ask someone how they voted in the first place, if they volunteer the information fine but otherwise mind your fucking business.

People who voted Remain or voted Leave, you can tell with many of them it’s less about understanding the issue than about trying to communicate a certain cultural vibe. I find that people no matter what side they are on, who judge other people on how they vote are a) not particularly very bright, you don’t have to agree with something in order to understand it b) you wonder how actually wedded to democracy they are when they think there’s a correct and incorrect option to vote for.


If the bloke had gone on about voting leave and had put the woman on the spot about why she voted Remain, he’d have been the prick in my view. And that’s why I decided not to give her a taste of her own medicine

Ultimately I find I have more respect for people who told me (volunteered the information, rather than me asking them) that they didn’t feel they knew enough to make such a decision. Far wiser to admit what you don’t know than to pretend you know, act superior because you think you’re one of the smart people and thumb your nose at others

---

I didn't vote as I was not sure myself.

Whilst I understood and liked the idea of leaving the EU, I was never entirely sure anyone in our government would have the ability and competency to actually implement it properly - seems like I was right on the money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

You can ask someone what colour underwear they are wearing, but it’s kind of bad form. I see it the same with asking people how they voted, unless you’re conducting a survey for an exit poll.

---

It's about the context of the conversation. I don't think it's an inherently rude thing to ask but doing so out of the blue would be a bit weird.
A bit like the whole "where are you really from" thing. Certain "right on" people seem to think that's inherently rude. I disagree. Well, maybe if you ask it like that it is.
But in the context of getting to know someone asking about someone's origin - especially if you detect an accent - is pretty reasonable.

I don't regard any of this as "deeply personal" and there is no "power imbalance" in the context of two people getting to know each other.
But if people decline to answer then that's their prerogative. Secret ballot and all that.

Quote:

---

Politics has always been more tribal than policy based anyway.

---

Still very true in the US, I think it's less so here than it used to be. I have voted different ways over time, I don't see myself as deeply affiliated with any party.
Probably closest to the Lib Dems but till we have a more proportional system (i.e. never) there's no point in voting for them round my way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

What puts the article in perspective is that Le Grove is a big Arteta cheerleader so on the surface at least for him to be concerned about this appointment because of the power it gives Arteta is certainly interesting.

However it’s not like he’s ever been uncritical of Arteta, he clearly feels that Arteta does not seem to deal well with Load management. But equally I think he’s also concerned about replicating a situation that we were in in Wenger’s last ten years which was essentially a power grab and that KSE are ok with this happening again because it means they can take a more hands off approach (which makes sense when you consider that to them Arsenal is a financial asset rather than a sporting project).

As for the evidence for these fears, I simply don’t know….i don’t know the type of working relationship he had with Diego Simeone at Atletico, I don’t know the reason why Berta left the club. I also don’t know whether Le Grove has hard evidence that other prospective candidates turned down Arsenal because of the setup they were being asked to work under (but equally it wouldn’t surprise me given what went before under Wenger)

---

Yes some of the comments below the article have questioned the same thing - he is being somewhat contradictive based on his opinion of Arteta.

I agree that no manager should be too powerful, like Wenger was back in the day. It had it's plus points of course, but the negatives far outweigh those.
I'm just not sure the approach of being concerned with this appointment is a valid one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

What's the point when usually the person asking the question will instantly disagree with the answer no matter what it is?

---

I don't think that's necessarily the case. There are reasons for voting a certain way which are more valid than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Yes some of the comments below the article have questioned the same thing - he is being somewhat contradictive based on his opinion of Arteta.

I agree that no manager should be too powerful, like Wenger was back in the day. It had it's plus points of course, but the negatives far outweigh those.
I'm just not sure the approach of being concerned with this appointment is a valid one.

---

True, my concern with Berta is that Joao Felix was signed under his stewardship.

Overall it would be interesting to see at signings from the Portuguese league into the premier league over the past two decades to see how they’ve worked out. A mixed bag at best….Chelsea did ok with the players Mourinho signed from Porto but these were his players that he won the champions league with.

I’d be interested to know if Amorim showed any interest in signing Gyokeres and if not, would it simply be a case of budgetary restraints

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I don't think that's necessarily the case. There are reasons for voting a certain way which are more valid than others.

---

People vote the way they do because of their thoughts & opinion's on the subject matter which corresponds to it.
In no way is a vote ever more valid one way over the other.

That would suggest there is a 'right or wrong' vote - which is a dictatorship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

It's about the context of the conversation. I don't think it's an inherently rude thing to ask but doing so out of the blue would be a bit weird.
A bit like the whole "where are you really from" thing. Certain "right on" people seem to think that's inherently rude. I disagree. Well, maybe if you ask it like that it is.
But in the context of getting to know someone asking about someone's origin - especially if you detect an accent - is pretty reasonable.

I don't regard any of this as "deeply personal" and there is no "power imbalance" in the context of two people getting to know each other.
But if people decline to answer then that's their prerogative. Secret ballot and all that.


Still very true in the US, I think it's less so here than it used to be. I have voted different ways over time, I don't see myself as deeply affiliated with any party.
Probably closest to the Lib Dems but till we have a more proportional system (i.e. never) there's no point in voting for them round my way.

---

The point is there is a power imbalance or perceived one in counsellor-client relationships, therefore direct questions tend to be discouraged because a) who’s benefit is it for and b) would the client have volunteered that information had they not been asked.

I’m not saying asking that question denotes a power imbalance, what I’m saying is maybe consider why you want to know. Have they said something that makes you think they voted a certain way and therefore are you trying to confirm your own beliefs. Imagine you liked the person before asking them that question, would how they answer significantly change that initial reaction to them?


As for Britain and Tribal politics, Brexit is the biggest example of Tribal politics existing of course it all happened after the referendum. But how many people claimed they voted Remain as a method of displaying their virtue. And why? Because people like to pretend they are good people whilst being arseholes to other people. And it has to be said, take away the headbangers on the leave side….and the level of contempt and vitriol directed at people for voting the wrong way in the referendum was largely one way traffic.
This was one big giant sulk and it made me ashamed to associate with such people. I wasn’t happy with the result, I wanted to avoid a no deal Brexit but when it was finally done and dusted with, I moved on and people with no skin in the game other than learning that the country wasn’t quite this quaint Richard Curtis fantasy they imagined it to be still seethed with resentment, and instead of looking at why they lost….preferred to treat people who disagreed with them as the dirt under their feet.
That’s what tribalism does, makes you feel like part of an important community, you end up outsourcing your opinions to ones that are deemed acceptable by that community and you have an outgroup to despise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

People vote the way they do because of their thoughts & opinion's on the subject matter which corresponds to it.
In no way is a vote ever more valid one way over the other.

That would suggest there is a 'right or wrong' vote - which is a dictatorship.

---

:gp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

People vote the way they do because of their thoughts & opinion's on the subject matter which corresponds to it.
In no way is a vote ever more valid one way over the other.

That would suggest there is a 'right or wrong' vote - which is a dictatorship.

---

I think there are some issues where right and wrong is pretty clear.
I don't think Brexit is one of them, it is complicated.
But there are definitely better and worse ways of arriving at a decision.

Carefully researching the issue, the history of the EU, our relationship with it, the benefits and drawbacks of membership, arriving at a conclusion: good.
Believing a bus or a coin-flip: bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The point is there is a power imbalance or perceived one in counsellor-client relationships

---

Well sure, but that's not the context I'm talking about. I'm just talking about a conversation between two people.

Quote:

---

what I’m saying is maybe consider why you want to know.

---

I just think understanding how people arrive at decisions or beliefs is inherently interesting. It tells you something about the person.

Quote:

---

the level of contempt and vitriol directed at people for voting the wrong way in the referendum was largely one way traffic.

---

Well, of course it was. The losing side were butt-hurt. And the result meant a big change in the country, the other result wouldn't have meant any change.
But I agree the level of it was an over-reaction, that's the modern internet-fuelled world for you.

The Brexit vote was incredibly divisive, the tribalism I was talking about is a set of Labour voters and a set of Conservative voters. I don't think that's anywhere near as entrenched in this country as in the US with the Republicans and Democrats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I think there are some issues where right and wrong is pretty clear.
I don't think Brexit is one of them, it is complicated.
But there are definitely better and worse ways of arriving at a decision.

Carefully researching the issue, the history of the EU, our relationship with it, the benefits and drawbacks of membership, arriving at a conclusion: good.
Believing a bus or a coin-flip: bad.

---

Right and Wrong is still placing a heavy moral imperative on the issue

Is it more desirable to be informed on an issue than uninformed yeah. But I’m not sure I follow the right or wrong binary

Ultimately it comes down to how much time you have to study an issue. To get an informed and objective view of the EU warts and all…that to paraphrase Oscar Wilde would take too many evenings. I know operationally how the EU works, I know it’s history, I know our history within the organisation when it went from being the European Coal and Steel community to the EEC/EC (also known as the common market) to its reorganisation as the EU in the early 1990s.

Like any monolithic bureaucracy, it’s slow to adapt and ultimately its stated end goal is a single European state. I don’t regard this as a sinister thing in of itself but I think it’s a rather untenable goal. Even if for no better reason than that economic inequality and global harmonisation are inextricably linked in perception and in some ways in fact.

I think greater centralisation of authority often causes more problems than it solves. Certain shared regulations, pooling of resources etc is fine but in many senses the movement of people is to greater autonomy and independence rather than being subsumed into one vast entity

If you believe what is written on a bus, how much of that is your fault for being credulous and how much of that is it the fault of a system that doesn’t have tighter regulations on what can and cannot be claimed by campaigns.


The problem is with the 350 million (the net contribution was more about 200-250 million) is that it was misleading rather than an outright lie (with the exception of the figure). It’s not what it says but what it doesn’t say, that the contributions we paid in often came back in the form of subsidies.

The 350 million number would also represent about 10% of our current weekly NHS spending, which would be a helpful weekly addition. I think ultimately you have to argue that blaming people for believing something that was misleading and manipulative, isn’t quite the same as believing you’ve won the Spanish lottery or you’re the sole beneficiary of the will of an exiled Afghan prince.

As for the tribal divide between Republicans and Democrats in the US, it doesn’t really exist…not in the partisan way you’re thinking.

It’s largely what used to be a divide between Conservatives and Liberals and what has now become Right Wing populists and Progressives (conservatives aren’t really conservative anymore and liberals sure as hell aren’t liberal)

A lot of lefty progressives don’t really like The Democrat party just as a lot of the left in this country don’t like Labour

I think because of Trump there’s probably more direct affinity between right wingers and the GOP, but the GOP is largely a cult of personality, thus why it seems to me at least implausible that Trumpism survives Trump because it’s not a coherent political philosophy…it’s largely defined and unified by who they hate or to be specific otherise.

It’s also why Trump is flirting with a third term (I think it’s partly trolling but his ego and narcissism is far too vast not to entertain the idea), and in terms of Republican politics Trump is the only show in town.

Just in case you need to start preparing for the festivities, Thursday will be St Totteringham's Day if Spurs fail to beat Chelsea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Just in case you need to start preparing for the festivities, Thursday will be St Totteringham's Day if Spurs fail to beat Chelsea.

---

So what you’re saying is St Totteringham’s day will be on April 3rd ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

So what you’re saying is St Totteringham’s day will be on April 3rd ?

---

Yes. Yes it will :lol:

Something for the spuds to celebrate :haha: https://shewore.com/2025/04/02/celeb...a-london-club/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dazthegooner

Something for the spuds to celebrate :haha: https://shewore.com/2025/04/02/celeb...a-london-club/

---

I didn't know that about their only being in London since 1965 - and they've got the cheek to tell us to go back to Woolwich, they should eff off back to Middlesex

Gabriel out for the rest of the season with hammy injury. :(

https://i.ibb.co/My94fxg1/St-Totteringham.jpg