Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:lol: Hill Wood is part of reason why we're in this shit. He booted Dein from the Board, advised the Board to sell their remaining shares to Kroenke once Jabba came on the scene and then Lady Nine and Richard Carr left because of PHW.

He cares for his investment and own survival.

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Again my point was to look at it relatively, Hill Wood booted Dein from the club because he recommended Kroenke in the first place and Hill Wood refused to countenance giving him a place on the board. Fiszman also sold his shares to KSE before he died, because he mistakenly believed he was doing the right thing because he represented less of a risk to the club's stability than Usmanov.
I think they were wrong to sell their shares but Hill Wood himself owned a very nominal amount of shares and didn't massively financially benefit from Kroenke's majority ownership. Was he the best owner ever, no like i say he was an old Tory fart whose grandfather took on the club as blue chip stock, certainly wasn't open to change said of Kroenke "we don't want his kind here" but compared to an absentee owner who purely looks upon Arsenal as just another asset in his collection, PHW was preferable.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Brian Reade making the point that I've been making for ages and get slated for, Wenger of course is a prevaricating ninny totally out of touch with the modern game but he's served for a long time as a useful lightning rod for those at the top. I fail to understand how anyone can think it could be any other way and that this old dinosaur is a tyrant who everyone is too afraid to challenge, he is kept on because it's useful for the purposes of Kroenke et al to keep him on.
I think people slam me more of our frustration because they want to believe things will get better when Wenger eventually leaves, but realistically they won't. This is the kind of club we are now, Kroenke is going nowhere and even when he croaks it will pass on to his sons.

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I personally think it's a bit of both TBH, I think the mess we are in is because both the board and Wenger are in complete agreement over our flawed recruitment policy, it's not just that though is it, Wenger is in complete control of the Technical side so is a "law to himself", it all starts and ends with him, he's in complete control and is questioned by nobody.

In regards to our recruitment policy Wenger isn't forced "not to buy", the issue isn't even that he needs to spend irresponsibly, he just chooses to use this argument as a deflection tactic, it's straw man and quite frankly ridiculous TBH.

No amount of excuse making by Wenger about his reluctance to recruit will wash with me, he's leaving holes in the squad every single season and it's negligent, he's basically not doing his job properly and needs to be called out on it until he addresses it. If he feels buying players like Rob Holding resolves issues in the team/squad then I'm cool with that if these signings deliver and immediately improve our team, but until I/we see tangible evidence that his recruitment policy is successful then people have every right to question him.

I'm actually quite bored of the whole thing, he won't listen, anybody who dares to question his methods is marked down as "stupid" or "easily influenced", we are all wrong to even dare to suggest he should improve the team by paying the "market rate" to buy players who are better than what we have.

Wenger is pretty much on his own crusade with his issues with the market. The market won't change just for him.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again my point was to look at it relatively, Hill Wood booted Dein from the club because he recommended Kroenke in the first place and Hill Wood refused to countenance giving him a place on the board. Fiszman also sold his shares to KSE before he died, because he mistakenly believed he was doing the right thing because he represented less of a risk to the club's stability than Usmanov.
I think they were wrong to sell their shares but Hill Wood himself owned a very nominal amount of shares and didn't massively financially benefit from Kroenke's majority ownership. Was he the best owner ever, no like i say he was an old Tory fart whose grandfather took on the club as blue chip stock, certainly wasn't open to change said of Kroenke "we don't want his kind here" but compared to an absentee owner who purely looks upon Arsenal as just another asset in his collection, PHW was preferable.

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I'm looking at it relatively and PHW sparked our demise.

It goes back to the question of why we built the stadium in the first place and what was the intention? Dein invited Stan so he could invest from the outside and we’d share Wembley stadium instead of building a new one. Why? Maybe he didn’t want to see us suffer for 10 years on the football pitch. I don’t know if that was the smart business move or how that would have worked out but there are footballing reasons behind that. He may have saw what was about to occur.

What were PHW’s reasons for wanting the stadium? Stan has his shares but his association with Dein means he’s frozen out. So the pair go their separate ways. PHW stepped in and welcomed Stan on to the Board. Why and how? Dein called upon Stan to be an outside investor and back the club on the field with his money but now PHW has got in his ear and Stan’s now on the Board after saying he wasn’t welcome. Again, how and why? I suspect the self-sustaining model PHW pitched had Stan skipping and shouting ‘yeeha’ after picturing the money rolling in. I don’t know but I suspect it’s possible.

Why has PHW sat comfortably with the way the club has been run under Kroenke? You have scorn for Stan but nothing for the man that invited him to the house and most likely pitched the idea and vision? Lady Nina has said she regrets selling her shares to Kroenke and wants Dein and Usmanov to run things. Pretty shocking. So she feels mislead and is unhappy about the club but PHW isn’t. Why?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I'm looking at it relatively and PHW sparked our demise.

It goes back to the question of why we built the stadium in the first place and what was the intention? Dein invited Stan so he could invest from the outside and we’d share Wembley stadium instead of building a new one. Why? Maybe he didn’t want to see us suffer for 10 years on the football pitch. I don’t know if that was the smart business move or how that would have worked out but there are footballing reasons behind that. He may have saw what was about to occur.

What were PHW’s reasons for wanting the stadium? Stan has his shares but his association with Dein means he’s frozen out. So the pair go their separate ways. PHW stepped in and welcomed Stan on to the Board. Why and how? Dein called upon Stan to be an outside investor and back the club on the field with his money but now PHW has got in his ear and Stan’s now on the Board after saying he wasn’t welcome. Again, how and why? I suspect the self-sustaining model PHW pitched had Stan skipping and shouting ‘yeeha’ after picturing the money rolling in. I don’t know but I suspect it’s possible.

Why has PHW sat comfortably with the way the club has been run under Kroenke? You have scorn for Stan but nothing for the man that invited him to the house and most likely pitched the idea and vision? Lady Nina has said she regrets selling her shares to Kroenke and wants Dein and Usmanov to run things. Pretty shocking. So she feels mislead and is unhappy about the club but PHW isn’t. Why?

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You do realise Kroenke didn't get involved in Arsenal until 2007 where he bought up shares that were sold by ITV....we'd moved into the Emirates stadium long before Kroenke had any involvement at the club so i don't get the first part of your statement.

Plus would you really want Arsenal playing at Wembley so far away from Islington?. I think it was one of those instances where Dein was wrong. We were right to build the stadium, just think there has been a total failure to build upon it.

PHW has stayed quiet about the state of the club since he stepped aside, so hard to know what he thinks. You seem to think i am defending him, but first of all there is no comparison between him and Kroenke because PHW was never the owner as we never had an owner at Arsenal before Kroenke, and Hill Wood was as i've repeated a remote old fart who was totally out of touch for the modern era of football...but yes on balance i think he had the interests of the club more at heart than Kroenke does, he was a merchant banker so no doubt money was more important to him than football but during the days of Highbury there was at least a connection between him and the manager and the players.

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Originally Posted by selassie

I personally think it's a bit of both TBH, I think the mess we are in is because both the board and Wenger are in complete agreement over our flawed recruitment policy, it's not just that though is it, Wenger is in complete control of the Technical side so is a "law to himself", it all starts and ends with him, he's in complete control and is questioned by nobody.

In regards to our recruitment policy Wenger isn't forced "not to buy", the issue isn't even that he needs to spend irresponsibly, he just chooses to use this argument as a deflection tactic, it's straw man and quite frankly ridiculous TBH.

No amount of excuse making by Wenger about his reluctance to recruit will wash with me, he's leaving holes in the squad every single season and it's negligent, he's basically not doing his job properly and needs to be called out on it until he addresses it. If he feels buying players like Rob Holding resolves issues in the team/squad then I'm cool with that if these signings deliver and immediately improve our team, but until I/we see tangible evidence that his recruitment policy is successful then people have every right to question him.

I'm actually quite bored of the whole thing, he won't listen, anybody who dares to question his methods is marked down as "stupid" or "easily influenced", we are all wrong to even dare to suggest he should improve the team by paying the "market rate" to buy players who are better than what we have.

Wenger is pretty much on his own crusade with his issues with the market. The market won't change just for him.

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I don't disagree with anything you have said about Wenger, but that's not the point....he's an employee.....unless he is blackmailing someone to stay in charge he isn't unsackable.....the fact that no-one has looked to get rid of him shows that they are happy with how he's performing and therefore those are the people who are to blame.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

Prepare yourself for a world of disappointment.

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Why would I need to do that :lol:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:lol: Hill Wood is part of reason why we're in this shit. He booted Dein from the Board, advised the Board to sell their remaining shares to Kroenke once Jabba came on the scene and then Lady Nine and Richard Carr left because of PHW.

He cares for his investment and own survival.

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PHW was another horrible little man, I remember people supporting him when I was calling him up for what he was.

We seem to have had a few pompous guys like him at the club who think they are above everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You do realise Kroenke didn't get involved in Arsenal until 2007 where he bought up shares that were sold by ITV....we'd moved into the Emirates stadium long before Kroenke had any involvement at the club so i don't get the first part of your statement.

Plus would you really want Arsenal playing at Wembley so far away from Islington?. I think it was one of those instances where Dein was wrong. We were right to build the stadium, just think there has been a total failure to build upon it.

PHW has stayed quiet about the state of the club since he stepped aside, so hard to know what he thinks. You seem to think i am defending him, but first of all there is no comparison between him and Kroenke because PHW was never the owner as we never had an owner at Arsenal before Kroenke, and Hill Wood was as i've repeated a remote old fart who was totally out of touch for the modern era of football...but yes on balance i think he had the interests of the club more at heart than Kroenke does, he was a merchant banker so no doubt money was more important to him than football but during the days of Highbury there was at least a connection between him and the manager and the players.

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Why is 2007 and when Kroenke got involved relevant to my post?

It boils down to two opposing ideologies on Board at Arsenal. Dein wanted outside investment, PHW wanted a self sustaining model. My post above is about how Stan was introduced to the club in the first place and how he's seemed to switch from Dein's agenda over to PHW's.

The Wembley vs Emirates stadium question is irrelevant as well. We don't know how that would have turned out but since you say this club is screwed under current conditions draw your own conclusions.

Is this not a defence of PHW over Stan? :lol: You were making a case that he cared for the club more than Stan. How? Because he inherited it? How does he have the clubs best interest at heart when he's invited Stan to the Board and has no intention of letting Wenger go. He's happy with the way things are run here. That quote I posted was from December 2014. That's after he's stepped aside as Chairmen and he only stepped aside because of health issues.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqcjjLjWgAAFhi-.jpg

https://twitter.com/ArsenalEmployee/...21459594317824

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Why is 2007 and when Kroenke got involved relevant to my post?

It boils down to two opposing ideologies on Board at Arsenal. Dein wanted outside investment, PHW wanted a self sustaining model. My post above is about how Stan was introduced to the club in the first place and how he's seemed to switch from Dein's agenda over to PHW's.

The Wembley vs Emirates stadium question is irrelevant as well. We don't know how that would have turned out but since you say this club is screwed under current conditions draw your own conclusions.

Is this not a defence of PHW over Stan? :lol: You were making a case that he cared for the club more than Stan. How? Because he inherited it? How does he have the clubs best interest at heart when he's invited Stan to the Board and has no intention of letting Wenger go. He's happy with the way things are run here. That quote I posted was from December 2014. That's after he's stepped aside as Chairmen and he only stepped aside because of health issues.

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I don't necessarily think Dein was ever opposed to the self-sustainability model....even when seeking outside investment i don't think he was looking for a sugar daddy who would make all our signings for us, he was looking for someone to give us the means to expand and Kroenke certainly didn't change his mind as that is always how he's run sporting enterprises.

The point i am making is that Hill Wood was wrong to persuade the board to sell to Kroenke and his attitude about it now obviously shows that he is still out of touch, but the point is as chairman he had a demonstrably more hands on relationship with the club than the current majority share holder. I never denied it was a defence of Hill Wood over Kroenke it's abundantly clear that whilst i am not overly fond of either of them, i prefer the former to the latter.

Again a hypothetical, but do you think Kroenke would have cared enough to remove Bruce Rioch from his job for not being ambitious enough?

A lot of people thought the stadium was the way forward and in that sense Dein was the one dissenting voice, were all of those individuals...including Ken Friar, Danny Fiszman et all just totally obsessed with money?.

"Dein invited Stan so he could invest from the outside and we’d share Wembley stadium instead of building a new one"

Those are your words which suggests that Kroenke's involvement pre-dates the move to the Emirates, i was thinking unless you knew something i didn't that, that was an error on your part.