Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford - Wenger Out

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

Has Paddy actually said that?

Jesus, I'm losing so much respect for him. The guy's cut his strings with the club to chase money with the Sheikhs and now he wants to lecture us? It's ludicrous for the likes of him and Beckham, sitting in their ivory towers, detached from the day to day going ons and the emotional drain it is to support Arsenal, to preach about how we should behave towards Wenger.

I mean the stuff at the Stoke train station last year was clearly too far, just yelling profanities and vile abuse is vulgar but a banner which says "Arsene, Thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye" is pretty respectful and conveys what most fans think now.

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unfortunately so: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...-a6931811.html

Recent headlines from Vieira. Picked Jose as his most influential club and said he was disappointed with Wenger and club for not offering him a role at the club. I won't even dig out the stories of the flirting with Real Madrid and disrespect before he left.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...ne-Wenger.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...-10217909.html

These players are really taking the piss. The disrespect I've heard from this guy and yet he's pointing the finger at the fans. Fuck em all. Arsenal died at Highbury. This is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Not entirely convinced to be honest, other clubs have signed top players without being in the CL, it's more about ambition and the manager and how much you'll pay.

Man U won't have a problem signing top players for example, neither will Chelsea.

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It definitely helps sign and retain players. If we were to drop out for a season we'd probably be ok because of our long history of qualifying but as Utd have found you can spend a lot of money trying to buy your way back in and still fail.
Top 4 shouldn't be a 'thing' but it is and its importance is recognised - just look at the money clubs have spent trying to get in there.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

I feel completely jaded and have felt for some time now. I've been pretty quiet and passive when watching, both at the ground or whenever I can be bothered to watch on TV.

But when Welbeck missed that chance in injury time, I went fucking apoplectic like I haven't done in ages - about anything.

Why?

Because even though I've told myself over and over that I can't be bothered and I don't really care, subconsciously, I clearly do.

It is the curse of the fan.

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:lol:

:gp:

I was the same. I'm nowhere near as bothered as I was but at some level I still do care.

:ilt:

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I would say that anyone who accepts mediocrity is the person who wants to see Arsenal lose. You don't need to cheer for a loss to want a loss. All you need to do is accept 4th place as an achievement and you willingly become part of the problem that guarantees failure. It's simple enough to understand why some fans so badly want losers purged they are prepared to push the inevitable in the hope it engineers a favourable outcome. It's a sound enough strategy, only complicated by loyalty issues that still linger in corporate sport. I mean SO WHAT if some fans want the team to lose? Does it matter? The team will lose regardless. They are losers after all. Losers with failure baked in by the biggest mediocrity in world football - the fraud Wenger. These are the facts, I'm afraid. It's all laid out in the record books and can't be denied. We don't win, we don't compete. What we do well is compile excuses, every excuse imaginable, to try to explain why we don't win and we don't compete. It's a habit losers have.

You won't find Real Madrid or Manchester Utd or Barcelona or Juventus or even the dopers like the chavs, gypos and P$G bragging about consistently losing titles. We lost the title 10 years in a row! When do you hear them say that? At Arsenal, we put a spin on failure, that's all. Consistent failure turned on its head and dressed up as achievement and even virtue. Total bullshit. Who buys it?

If you want to organise a pension then get Wenger. He will guarantee you safe returns season after season. But when he moves his pension fund methods into a football club then maybe it's okay to hope his fund tanks, just to see him out on his arse. This is CorporateBall now. That loyalty thing, we never want the team to lose, we must finish above the spuds, why are we bothered about such things if we then also turn around and say it's an achievement to fail 22 times out of 22 in terms of fulfilling the purpose of the sport we are engaged in? fuck it, in for a penny. If losing is your thing and you are actually proud of it then do it in style FFS - own it.

Or if you want to be on a poster with Arsenal Fan stamped under your mugshot, then go the whole other way. Demand success. Fucking demand it. The next time I hear a "fan" say we can't be expected to win the title every year I'm going to think about punching his lights out and then not bother. Win or lose. In life there is every shade of grey between. In sport it's binary. Did you win? Yes or no. What the fuck do you mean you came 4th? What the fuck does that mean? What does it matter?

As for the Ozil and Alexis thing - why are they even here? I mean, what's the point? Don't go fooling yourself they are here to win things. Because if that was the case we'd have at least COMPETED by now. We aren't doing even that. So we lose Ozil and Alexis. What difference will that make if the team isn't geared to winning in the first place? I'm sure we can grab another glorious 4th place "win" without Ozil and Alexis. We've done it before and we can do it again and again and again and again and again...

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:gp:

“I built the club, and the way I did it was with hard work,” said Wenger. “I had no external resources. Compare the club when I arrived and how it is today. It is moved forward, and without any help from anybody.”

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Originally Posted by Kano

Wenger staying top four to keep his job is a fallacy, a niave stance to take considering the owner of this club. With the TV money coming in, Chumps League money is small fry, why else do you think clubs are looking beyond the next TV deal at a Euro League? Our CL earnings last year of £20m is a fifth of what the club finishing bottom of next seasons PL will earn. The owner isn't in this industry to win championships remember.

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I agree - from the ownership point of view. As for Wenger - and referring to PnG's post as well here - sliding out of the top 4 is perhaps the only thing that would make Wenger question his own decline, and make the decision (to leave) that is his alone to make. Because what we are looking at with the manager is not lack of desire to win trophies - a monomaniac like Wenger would like nothing more than to prove that he is right and everyone else is wrong - but a complete lack of perspective. Wenger's sense of achievement with perennial top 4 is not simply something that he conveys to the fans. It is clearly something that he buys into 110%. It masks all the other failings with his teams, and justifies his methods. The problem with our club under Wenger is that he has built an empire in which nothing and noone is able to question what he does. And its patently obvious that this state of affairs stifles change and inhibits progress. Cue stagnation on the pitch and Groundhog Day for the fans.

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Originally Posted by AFC Leveller

“I built the club, and the way I did it was with hard work,” said Wenger. “I had no external resources. Compare the club when I arrived and how it is today. It is moved forward, and without any help from anybody.”

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And therein lies the issue with the manager. '98 to 2005 - of course we moved forward as a football team. 2005 to now any forward progress has been limited to the balance sheet. Seems almost as though the manager can no longer tell the difference.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I agree - from the ownership point of view. As for Wenger - and referring to PnG's post as well here - sliding out of the top 4 is perhaps the only thing that would make Wenger question his own decline, and make the decision (to leave) that is his alone to make. Because what we are looking at with the manager is not lack of desire to win trophies - a monomaniac like Wenger would like nothing more than to prove that he is right and everyone else is wrong - but a complete lack of perspective. Wenger's sense of achievement with perennial top 4 is not simply something that he conveys to the fans. It is clearly something that he buys into 110%. It masks all the other failings with his teams, and justifies his methods. The problem with our club under Wenger is that he has built an empire in which nothing and noone is able to question what he does. And its patently obvious that this state of affairs stifles change and inhibits progress. Cue stagnation on the pitch and Groundhog Day for the fans.

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I'm not entirely convinced myself. It may well be more wishful thinking on the fans part, than anything else. A guy who has so much control and influence over the club I believe would see a drop out of the top four as a blip, a small dent in his consistent record and one that he could rectify the following season. His ego is huge - which isn't a problem for me, as that is needed to be in charge of 20-30 younger egos every day. However, I think the echo coming back from the board would be he is safe out of the top four, that he is the man who can fix it again. They have no-one else and are probably terrified of breaking the status quo and safety net he has provided for them. Rolling the dice means risking revenue. The board are up shits creek when he leaves because there are no 'football men' inside the club holding influential positions, which is why they won't let him go completely. His natural progression will be upstairs in one form or the other - and no doubt handpicking his successor.

Poch signing a new £3.5m a year deal
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...al-summer.html

Makes Wenger's £8m a year even more pathetic :lol: