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If it weren't for certain details being revealed by Gazidis, I'm pretty sure we'd still be in the dark about our state of finances with posters still talking as if Wenger is the victim and not a selfish cunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
It has to be said the reason he did it was because he's trying to deflect blame off himself for not doing his job properly.
I had trepidation about Gazidis but I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt because I thought he was finally going to stand up and do something, the end result lead us to one of two conclusions. He's weak and incompetent or he's as much a part of our malaise as Wenger and Kroenke.
The fact that Wenger has managed to cultivate a relationship with Kroenke and Gazidis hasn't doesn't speak highly of him.
You didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. We've had this conversation too many times. Despite sources saying Wenger bypassed the Board and went straight to Kroenke for the contract renewal, you're still focused on the wrong guy. Gazidis had no power when appointed and still doesn't have the power to move Wenger on. It would be stupid to focus on getting him out and hoping he resigns if he has no power to give Wenger the boot despite the supposed power moves to undermine the manager. Heck, if he wasn't so vocal about our affairs, most here, including you would be pulling up useless spreadsheets trying to calculate our finances as if it has anything to do with why Wenger is a crap manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I did give him the benefit of the doubt, what I did was voice my reservations about his competence. I acknowledged that he really was the only hope we had for change.
The reason we assume Gazidis is powerless is because of Kroenke and yet he was here two years before Kroenke.
I'm simply saying it's not inconceivable a chief executive with more clout might have more power over Wenger. Like I've said Wenger has cultivated a relationship with Kroenke, one that Gazidis clearly does not have.
And I don't think it's unfair to at the very least speculate that a man who clearly was prepared to humiliate himself in the way Gazidis has to keep his very nice pay packet might not be awfully good at his job. Whether you think he should have gone or not, if Gazidis is that good at his job hed surely think I can actually get another one where I actually make changes.
It strikes me that it's easier for him to do a 180 and pretend like he never said what he did. Spin merchant basically.
Did he have ideas to at the very least assert some control over Wenger.....possibly. But Wenger very easily outmanuevered him.
Oxlade moving to Chelsea
Arsenal :rose:
I predict they'll pull some director of football stunt and bring in a yes man as cover for Wenger to see out his ill-gotten contract. And that would serve as a pretence that Gazidis has some power. Would be a nice, cynical solution and would also supply a scapegoat for both of them. Of course you'd have to be the greediest man alive or an absolute fool to take that role, but there are plenty of greedy people and fools out there.
Liverpool sign Keita for over 70 mill, but he won't join until next summer.
The chavs are on the verge of signing Ox for 30 mill.
Barkley to the spuds.
Good player with promise buy he is under bad management and hasn't really done anything of note in the 6 years hes been here. I dont blame him for wanting to leave and i bet the board and manager are happy to be making yet more profit in the transfer market.
Lemar on verge of signing for Liverpool. Final deal will be in the region of 74 million.
Meanwhile some nasty and hurtful rumours going around that we're trying to sign Jonny Evans. What's the matter you cunts? Couldn't you get Senderos or tempt Silvestre out of retirement?
Speak for yourself. Wenger hired Gazidis and was acting as Chief Executive after Dein left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Did you not hear the part about Wenger bypassing the Board and going straight to Kroenke for his contract? Do you really think Wenger won't have a say over who the next Chief Executive is?
Does anyone else here think hiring a new Chief Executive would change things? Do you trust Stan to even make the correct decision and appoint the right man? Why in the heck would he appoint someone to oppose Wenger if he's not even listening to Gazidis and Chips?
It's a foolish proposal.
Wimmer to Stoke for 15 mill.
It may be as simple as he was willing to give Wenger a chance to sort things out back then as there was legitimately a money issue then (it was prior to the sponsorship money really kicking in) but now seeing as he can't do it despite not being financially handicapped is or should I say was willing to try and force some change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Essentially the same sentiment that a lot of fans have had, including me.
Fuck him. If we can get 35 million out of Chelsea then it'd be decent days work - probably could have got 50+ if he had more years simply for the English factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
What's annoying is that we've spent the first three games of the season's placating his fragile little ego, dropping the best LB in the Bundesliga last year and shifting Bellerin to the left just to give him game time and he still wants out. All simply because he's one of Wenger's favourites. He doesn't deserve the chances he's been given here - he'll be in for a shock when he goes to Chelsea and realises he'll have to actually answer to a manager and owner who won't tolerate total incompetence.
He's got the same cunt of an agent that Sterling has so I suppose I shouldn't be at all surprised at this.
So basically you've admitted that Gazidis is a Wenger stoogeQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I mentioned that Wenger bypassed the board, that he was able to do that so easily like I've said doesn't cast a great light on Gazidis. He's apparently coming up with all these plans to put Wenger in his place and Wenger just says fuck you and goes behind him.
You seem to think I'm suggesting we should get rid of Gazidis and keep Wenger, ship has well and truly sailed. You're quite probably right you would only get in soneone just as spineless as Gazidis. I'm saying he and Wenger should be out the door at the same time.
Because what happens then is any manager with half a brain would be able to play Gazidis just as easily as Wenger has.
Given our total ineptitude in tieing down players to contracts, letting too many of them go into their final years without any consequences and being unable sell well ....... we can't even boast about "net transfer spend" or celebrate the "most financially prudent team" trophy anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
In:
Lacazette - 44mill rising to 50mill if Arsenal win a match or Wenger selects a right back for the right back position.
Potentially In:
Evans 23 mill
Out:
Ox - 30 mill
Chesney - 15 mill
Gibbs - 5 mill
Gabriel - 10 mill
Plus a few kids worth around 6 mill
Potentially out:
Alexis - 70 mill
Mustafi - 30 mill
In: 44 mill
Out: 66 mill
Profit: 22 mill
Potentially In: 67 mill
Potentially Out: 166 mill
Potential Trophy: 99 mill
And that's without growing rumours that Ozil may be off to Dortmund.
I don't think these sales are about financial prudence. It's about these players wanting out because we are a club with no ambition. Totally controlled by one man in the football stakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
My understanding is that Mustafi will go to inter on loanQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Juve are supposedly offering a permanent deal. Speculation and rumour of course, which is why he's in the potential column. Also, if we were serious about a loan deal we wouldn't be talking about demanding offers matching the amount we paid for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Admitted? I have always said Gazidis has no power to fire Wenger. Is your memory that bad? I've said this for the past 10 years or so. What part of Wenger having the final say aren't you getting from the many posts here and elsewhere? You're only just catching on. I still remember the day you tried to argue that we didn't have the cash to spend when we signed Ozil. Again, if certain details about our finances weren't so public, fools would still be raging on about us not being able to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
How is that last part even relevant? Played? Is it more important for the focus to go on Wenger or Gazidis? For the almost a decade Wenger has evaded criticism because of these sort of arguments. It's brain dead.
Conte will turn Ox into a great player. All Ox has ever needed was a bit of coaching so he can be a bit more intelligent with his game. He's always had the talent and the drive. One of the few players we havehad who wants to go forward with the ball rather than sideways or backwards. Big loss for us in some respects, and an especially big credibility loss. But in practical terms, for as long as Wenger stays, it doesn't really matter who we buy or sell.
I know Wenger has the final say. My argument is that he does is the result of having a spineless chief executive. If you can't convince your own boss to give you power over your employees you either aren't very good at your job or are more interested in an easy lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
What I'm unable to process is the idea that Gazidis is some kind of victim of circumstance. Every time he has come out to shed a light on things as you've stated its because he is under fire himself from fans for staying silent, so when the fans come to him and ask him what are you doing about this he comes out with a load of old Fanny.
Now where I concede you have a point, is that it might not have been possible for a more independent minded chief executive to get employed in the first place because of Wenger sitting in on interviews. But I sure as hell don't believe going forward that keeping a guy who was essentially employed as a yes man is any good.
Exactly. I said last season that if Wenger gets a new contract even though we've dropped out of the Top 4, he's getting a new deal based on sentiment and a personal relationship with Kroenke. If we can take a hit in revenue and still see no consequences, we're in deeper shit then I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
This isn't going anywhere. So you actually think a new Chief Exec would make a difference? :good: So the fans should focus on getting Gazidis out? Is that the answer? It's naive as anyone thinking a new DOF would make a difference or a new assistant manager. It's more deflection. It's dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
We have one option as fans now, if we want to remain fans. Accept that we have become a mid-table team, just as those who wanted Wenger out warned, and accept there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. As far as hopes and ambition, fans have to hope Wenger doesn't drag us into a relegation fight in his last 2 years and our ambition is limited to maybe catching 6 decent performances in those 2 years. I think that's about our average over the last decade, 3 good performances per season.
Maybe if the sponsors baulked and decided they didn't want to associate themselves with such a bunch of losers, maybe that could provoke change. So maybe the fans are better off boycotting the sponsors. Don't fly Emirates and whenever you are booking a ticket, take the time to call up Emirates and explain why you are booking a ticket with a competitor and not them. Heres a partial list: https://www.arsenal.com/the-club/sponsors-partners
Anything else won't make a blind bit of difference because Kroenke doesn't give a shit.
It is dumb but it's not what I'm saying and I actually said clearly it's not what I'm sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Your argument seems to be why talk about Gazidis when we need to get rid of Wenger. I'd rather say the inability to multi task is part of the clubs problem right now. That Wenger has to go rather goes without saying, even he couldn't defend himself yesterday.
What I'm saying is, are we going to be in the same boat in a few years with a different guy because we have a chief executive who seems to prefer to play candy crush on his phone and then when the shit hits the fan thinks oh fuck I better do something.
That's not an argument for keeping Wenger under a different structure. We are long passed the point of Wenger going making things worse even as inept as Gazidis seems to be. But being an Arsenal fan it seemed kind of reasonable to speculate on what we could do to make things better. And there's very little doubt that without someone proactive and competent that there's no guarantee of that. That just to reiterate is not an argument for keeping Wenger.
It's Stan Kroenke we have to worry about. He defines the parameters of that Chief Executive role. If he disregards the advice given what's the point of having a Chief Exec? It's the structure that's the problem with Wenger having too much of a say on what happens with the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Taking it a step further, it's the Chairman that's a link between the Chief Exec and Owner/Board. If Gazidis is incompetent, why hasn't Sir Chips stepped in? Why didn't PHW? We've seen the musical chairs at Board level and similar to what happens on the pitch with us constantly changing players, nothing will change unless the manager goes and that decision has to come from Kroenke.
I think we both know the chairman is just a ornamental positionQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
You seem to think that I'm saying Gazidis could or should have fired Wenger. Ultimately that decision will come from the owner yes, my argument is that if Wenger could cultivate a relationship with Kroenke why has Gazidis not been able to. Why does he have no influence over Kroenke to say this isn't working I need your authority to put my foot down especially when Wenger has been able to come to him and say give me a free hand you won't have to be involved.
I imagine Kroenke prefers to be as hands off with the club as possible, so when Wenger came to him about the contract I imagine he was like "yeah no problem, the less I have to involve myself the better".
For me going forward the manager should have no direct involvement with Kroenke whatsoever, he reports to the chief executive and presides over a set management structure that he has agreed with the chief executive.
I'm saying that I don't trust Gazidis going forward to maintain that kind of strength of relationship. And as I say there's no question things won't improve until Wenger goes, the question is whether things will improve after he goes. And my personal view is that to guarantee that requires Gazidis to go very shortly after Wenger.
So are we actually going to sign anyone over the next few days or is it just about clearing the wage bill and making that all important profit?
The fact Wenger said the Lemar deal is dead and now Liverpool are testing the waters is embarrassing. The bloke is a fraud and has no grasp on what is going on anymore.
I think that he has no grasp on what's going on was laid bare in his interview yesterday. Take away the bollocks of the no time for emotion and yesterday like against Bayern Munich it's one of the few times he is honest both in what he says and his body language. His body language betrayed that he really was totally dumbfounded by yesterday, of course he shouldn't be but genuinely think he lives in this bubble where it's 2004 and his players just have to turn up and play their game and teams will be brushed aside.
He said cryptically there was a reason for what happened which will become clear, not that there was any real surprise. The atmosphere is players telling him they don't want to be at the club anymore. Because they have to think of themselves and their careers.
In Sanchez and Ox he started two players that aren't interested in being at this football club anymore
Jonny Evans is the latest rumour. Other than that, nothing - unless you want to take the Draxler and Arsenio rumours seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I must tell you that everything will be said in my book, which I will sell at a premium (conveniently forgetting about value).Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I think that's kind of straightforward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
For all the shit we give Kroenke on here, he's not a stupid or ignorant man - you don't typically become that rich by being so. He knows full well that it's Wenger who's essentially built the modern day Arsenal and transformed the club into the global brand and powerhouse it is right and in the process has been the one responsible for making the shareholders obscenely rich. So bearing that in mind, Kroneke is clearly going to pay more heed and attention to Wenger's wishes rather than Gazidis' - he's been the money maker.
Honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if Gazidis tries to desperately reignite the Lemar deal in a bid (in his view) to try and calm & assauge fan pressure & anger ala some of the last minute trolley dashes we've done in the past in similar situations. It'd funny and typical if we end up paying 65 million for him in a desperate bid to ensure we get him ahead of Pool whilst 50 million would have been enough a month ago. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Draxler's also possible considering he's surplus to requirements at PSG right now and Wenger's had a hard on for him for ages.
The Asensio rumours are absolutely laughable though. He's the darling child at Real Madrid, the best team in the world right now and being heralded as the future ....... why in the hell would he leave there to come to our circus right now?
Even that ITK Madness mug is saying we're not in for anyone as of right now
:haha:
Read up on what attracted Kroenke to Arsenal. Wenger didn't cultivate a relationship with Stan. Stan was in love with Wenger from the very start and held him in high esteem before taking over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-he-wants.html
You say the Chairman position is ornamental but have a hard time grasping that it's also the same case with the Chief Executive position.
How comes Ivan can't influence Stan? God knows. You might as well ask why Sir Chips has no influence. If rumours are true of Josh Kroenke wanting Henry involved with the club, you then must question how comes his own son has no influence.
Extend that question further down the pecking order and you can ask why Steve Bould has no influence over the players or manager.
Also, if Mustafi goes that's 2 of our 3 big signings from last summer out the door. I'm presuming Perez is going this week too, be it on loan or permanent.
A complete waste of 50m. I'm honestly not bothered if we sign anyone this week, how can anyone trust Wenger anymore?
Alexis has handed in a transfer request, according to reports.
Great player, genuine winner and modern day world class player. Will be missed.
Let's face it, we are well and truly fucked.
Denied emphatically by the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
So it's true.