Good Bye RVP!

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I get the sense that this togetherness is about to be dealt a death blow. RVP was a big part of that and you could see it in the way he lead as a captain and how the players responded to him. Theo is next to leave, an issue that we haven't even touched on yet and having two of our best performers from last season leave in another summer window is really going to mess with the squad. Certain players are going to be pissed off and their going to be questioning our ambition next...wash and repeat. It's downward spiral because we keep chipping away at what we're building and it's two steps back every bloody season.

To counter the negative, the club has to bring in two or three quality players if RVP and Theo leave this summer. We can't go into next season with these departures. It's too bloody negative and we'll have a repeat of the last season where nobody felt like playing and we looked flat. What pisses me off is the fact that we could all see this coming ages ago but the club sat back and did nothing. When RVP had two years left on his contract and we had the hoopla with Nasri and Cesc, I said there is no way RVP and Theo are going to sign new deals after this summer. We needed a big season to convince them to stay and we should have showed more ambition in the January transfer window. We didn't and we're not learning the lesson.

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Can't help but feel I'd care more if this wasn't Walnutt. I'd be fine with him leaving. Boyish good looks and polite enthusiasm can only go so far.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That last statement shows the hypocrisy of this whole affair. We can't talk about showing loyalty when we're considering throwing players on the scrap heap because of their age and injury record. If we're thinking about how much we can get out of him, he's thinking along the same lines and has every right to want out after his contract has ended.

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I don't dispute that. But when you are looking to commit millions of pounds of funds to a player you have to consider that - it would be ridiculous not to.

Likewise, he is entitled to walk away at the end of a contract.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Can't help but feel I'd care more if this wasn't Walnutt. I'd be fine with him leaving. Boyish good looks and polite enthusiasm can only go so far.

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You'd be fine, but the team morale won't. That's the point I was making. Every player is replaceable and RVP was never going to have another season like he had last season, but the point is, we've lost another first team player, our captain, again! It's another blow to the club and each time we lose first team players like this it sows doubt in the mind of the current players we still have playing for us. How do the rest of the team feel about this? It's like passing on an STD every season because we keep getting f***ed over!

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You'd be fine, but the team morale won't. That's the point I was making. Every player is replaceable and RVP was never going to have another season like he had last season, but the point is, we've lost another first team player, our captain, again! It's another blow to the club and each time we lose first team players like this it sows doubt in the mind of the current players we still have playing for us. How do the rest of the team feel about this? It's like passing on an STD every season because we keep getting f***ed over!

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They just need a new focus point. RVP was clearly a big character, but there's still Vermaelen, Song, Sagna, Sneezey, Wilshere and Arteta. All with a good mixture of experience/confidence/anger/loyalty/presence. The team will be fine. Walcott isn't a key player. Look at Eboue's comments about him after he'd left. RVP will hit them, though less because of the introduction of a player of such proven class like Podolski. But Walcott. He's not a big personality and he's not a great player.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Good luck at a team which isn't completely moulded around you and at which you're not Jesus. How does that work out in the Dutch team?

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hes a top top CF in the middle of 3 forwards (433). he flatters to deceive on the left, on the right, in the hole and in a 2. wenger finally found his best and only position. it wasnt just about injuries, he was stuggling to find a role he was good at (the "new bergkamp" stuff was bollocks). a new club may expect him to fill one of these other roles and if that happens id expect him to struggle. but keep him in the middle of a 3 and he should do ok.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

But Walcott. He's not a big personality and he's not a great player.

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lose theo along with rvp right now and we move back to the beginning of last summer.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

They just need a new focus point. RVP was clearly a big character, but there's still Vermaelen, Song, Sagna, Sneezey, Wilshere and Arteta. All with a good mixture of experience/confidence/anger/loyalty/presence. The team will be fine. Walcott isn't a key player. Look at Eboue's comments about him after he'd left. RVP will hit them, though less because of the introduction of a player of such proven class like Podolski. But Walcott. He's not a big personality and he's not a great player.

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You don't get it do you. You don't rate Theo as a player...whatever. But he was still a second highest scorer behind RVP and I think third with the assists. We lost RVP and Theo in one season and it shows zero ambition on our part.

As for the players you mentioned. How do you think it will affect them? Song hasn't signed a new deal yet and I think he hasn't got long left on his contract. Sagna doesn't say shit and is always silent. Has no relationship with the fans what so ever, who knows what's going on with him and I wouldn't be surprised if he's looking for the exit. He's professional but don't mistake that for loyalty to the club. Wilshere is crocked and who knows what he's going to be like next season and Arteta is old and not the future of this club. Plus, his assist and goal record was shit. We're starting again from square one. The three players that had any cohesion on attack were Song, Theo and RVP. You can see it in the goal and assist stats. Losing two out of the three will be damaging just like how our fluid play was damaged by Cesc and Nasri's departure. We'll survive, but we're starting all over again.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

lose theo along with rvp right now and we move back to the beginning of last summer.

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Somebody gets it!

Yet what more could AW do? He started off this summer by signing one giant player and one highly-rated player. RVP had clearly made up his mind a few months ago. Wenger's shown some intent despite the Euros interfering. If RVP leaves, it's not because of this year's transfer dealings.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

lose theo along with rvp right now and we move back to the beginning of last summer.

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Well I think that is exactly where we are heading, with the exception of signing a couple of players and giving them time to adjust to the system. We have a system don't we?

Ordinarily I would not be bothered about the Theo situation, but we need some continuity and he has shown with greater consistency what he can do. It would provide us with some positive light within the shitcloud within which we are currently engulfed if we managed to agree terms with him.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Yet what more could AW do? He started off this summer by signing one giant player and one highly-rated player. RVP had clearly made up his mind a few months ago. Wenger's shown some intent despite the Euros interfering. If RVP leaves, it's not because of this year's transfer dealings.

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be more ruthless a year or two ago and sell him if he didn't sign a new contract, instead of clinging onto players in the hope that things work out in the end.

its a pattern that is not being learnt from.

the same people who are saying we should let walcott go are the same who said "anybody will be better than gallas, good riddance". well, since gallas weve shipped goals in record numbers since people like vermalean are even worse.

I get the continuity aspect of it, but we can't overlook the fact that it's Theo. How galling would it be to see us lose RVP but get the compensatory renewal of Walcott for 4 years at £80k a week? That just sends out the message that we reward mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by BOBN

the same people who are saying we should let walcott go are the same who said "anybody will be better than gallas, good riddance". well, since gallas weve shipped goals in record numbers since people like vermalean are even worse.

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I don't think I had an opinion on Gallas at the time. I think Theo is a good squad option. I'd be fine keeping him on the same wages as a good sub.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

I get the continuity aspect of it, but we can't overlook the fact that it's Theo. How galling would it be to see us lose RVP but get the compensatory renewal of Walcott for 4 years at £80k a week? That just sends out the message that we reward mediocrity.

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Theo is showing promise of being much more than mediocre.

We simply can't go on losing 2 of the 3 or 4 players we rely on most each season.

Agreed. But we've gained a class player and a very good player in exchange for an injury prone captain, who, though undoubtedly mega-awesome, was a bit volatile and risky. And old.

If, as people are saying, the RVP damage was done last season when we didn't sign anyone massive to reassure him, then all AW can do now to prevent Walcott and Song leaving is make this transfer window as positive as possible. These two are a good start. Who else can we get?

Actually though, where's Stan in all this? Shouldn't he, like, be doing something?

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

then all AW can do now to prevent Walcott and Song leaving is make this transfer window as positive as possible.

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as soon as possible was at least a year ago when theo two years on his contract but once again, we have two players ready to wind down and take control. song either has to sign this summer or be sold.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Actually though, where's Stan in all this? Shouldn't he, like, be doing something?

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Sleeping comfortably.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eYaSGC-Yga...e-mattress.jpg

I hope not. A lot of my Arsenal love was linked to RVP but it's always been Alex Song. If he leaves, I'll be a journeyman, clinging onto the likes of Koscielny and Sagna.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Yet what more could AW do? He started off this summer by signing one giant player and one highly-rated player. RVP had clearly made up his mind a few months ago. Wenger's shown some intent despite the Euros interfering. If RVP leaves, it's not because of this year's transfer dealings.

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We signed Giroud because RVP told them he wasn't staying. He's a replacement, not an addition. RVP had talks before the Euros with the club and he told them he wasn't going to sign a new deal. They slapped gag order on him and then signed Giroud.

Poldoski is Arshavin's replacement or maybe Walcott's. This isn't progress.

And now Usmanov is stirring it up too...

USMANOV's letter: https://twitter.com/#!/tariqpanja

Robin - "I want a top midfielder to replace Cesc"

Wenger - "Great news, Denilson will be back soon"


'They liked his performances, they liked Denilson’s development. That’s why they want him to return.'

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

We signed Giroud because RVP told them he wasn't staying. He's a replacement, not an addition. RVP had talks before the Euros with the club and he told them he wasn't going to sign a new deal. They slapped gag order on him and then signed Giroud.

Poldoski is Arshavin's replacement or maybe Walcott's. This isn't progress.

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So we've lost RVP and got Giroud? Bad but not disastrous. And we've gained Podolski, who's better than Theo, and theo hasn't actually left. So not too bad for standing still. And then there's the rest of the window for progress. It was always likely with RVP and at least that's been addressed relatively early on so he can be shipped out, wages freed up and some more signings.

Optimism :scarf:

If we lose Theo as well that would be disastrous. Although he's a flawed player, he contributed a lot of assists last season, and along with Song were probably the only creative outlets we had. I know people like Arseblog are beating the "Theo is being greedy" drum, but he's still quite young and is progressing as a player, so losing him will be a blow. But it again boils down to the fact that treating our football club simply as a private sector enterprise, with the focus on financial fundamentals and the "bottom line" will alienate some players who didn't enter football thinking it was simply an Accountancy firm. They want more from their careers, and clubs like City, Utd, Chelsea actually still care about what happens on the pitch, which is a very strong attraction for top players (yes, you could go on about how it's simply that these clubs can offer more money, but that's a naive position to take IMO. It's more than simply about money).

More I think about this, the more I feel we should make him play out his contract. We have to stop getting bullied around and make a statement. I did understand PnG's earlier point that working with a disinterested co-worker who knows he's off is not ideal. I do understand that. But I really don't think Van Persie will give anything less than 100% - not because it's in the club's interest...he has made abundantly clear he doesn't care about causing conflict at the club, but because it's in Robin's interest to pull off another 25+ goal season.

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tariq panja ‏@tariqpanja

Also says Arsenal tried to engage Russian company MegaFon in shirt sponsorship talks without realising telecom co is +50% owned by Usmanov

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:doh:

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

So we've lost RVP and got Giroud? Bad but not disastrous. And we've gained Podolski, who's better than Theo, and theo hasn't actually left. So not too bad for standing still. And then there's the rest of the window for progress. It was always likely with RVP and at least that's been addressed relatively early on so he can be shipped out, wages freed up and some more signings.

Optimism :scarf:

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That's not the point I'm making. You and few others seem to be under the impression that club tried to appease RVP with these two signings when they're replacement players and not additions. It's not progress and building on what we have which is why he's leaving.

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Originally Posted by Syn

More I think about this, the more I feel we should make him play out his contract. We have to stop getting bullied around and make a statement. I did understand PnG's earlier point that working with a disinterested co-worker who knows he's off is not ideal. I do understand that. But I really don't think Van Persie will give anything less than 100% - not because it's in the club's interest...he has made abundantly clear he doesn't care about causing conflict at the club, but because it's in Robin's interest to pull off another 25+ goal season.

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Could be a great gamble. Make him play. Be great. Make him realise how wrong he was and beg to stay to see out the remainder of his contract.

Ah, we can dream.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's not the point I'm making. You and few others seem to be under the impression that club tried to appease RVP with these two signings when they're replacement players and not additions. It's not progress and building on what we have which is why he's leaving.

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No I didn't mean that. I said he'd probably made up his mind a few months ago, in which case these signings weren't designed to appease him. But these signings can appease those other people who are wavering.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's not the point I'm making. You and few others seem to be under the impression that club tried to appease RVP with these two signings when they're replacement players and not additions. It's not progress and building on what we have which is why he's leaving.

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If Van Persie wants to stay now they would be additions, wouldn't they? If Wenger didn't want RVP to stay he wouldn't have made those guilt-trip comments a few days ago. The club wants Van Persie to stay (even after these two signings). That much is clear.

Usmanov's response:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...rsie-snub.html

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Originally Posted by Syn

More I think about this, the more I feel we should make him play out his contract. We have to stop getting bullied around and make a statement. I did understand PnG's earlier point that working with a disinterested co-worker who knows he's off is not ideal. I do understand that. But I really don't think Van Persie will give anything less than 100% - not because it's in the club's interest...he has made abundantly clear he doesn't care about causing conflict at the club, but because it's in Robin's interest to pull off another 25+ goal season.

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It's not a good idea. RVP won't want to cause conflict but his presence will cause a problem. For starters, we'd have to strip him of the armband and give it to somebody else. He might not have a problem with it, but some of the other players might. We could have a situation where we still have players looking to RVP for advice and inspiration when he's not even captain. That could be a problem.

Or we keep him as captain and certain players have a problem with it. How can RVP lead by example or bollock players when he's not committed to the cause. That could be an issue.

Also, misery loves company. If Song or a few others are pissed about our transfer policy or the way their contract talks are going, they might just gravitate towards RVP and start bitching about the club private. He doesn't have to say or do anything. He's just there and represents the disillusioned Arsenal player. It doesn't have to be done in the open, but when cliques are formed, you can sort of tell what certain people think just by who they hang with. You can see it most working environments on lunches. The ass lickers and forever enthusiastic don't sit or go for lunch with the moaners and those hunting for new jobs. I see no point in letting him stay for another season. Giroud and Poldoski need to form a relationship with the other players as soon as possible. No point in delaying that.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's not the point I'm making. You and few others seem to be under the impression that club tried to appease RVP with these two signings when they're replacement players and not additions. It's not progress and building on what we have which is why he's leaving.

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Of course they were additions, he is still an arsenal player and the club and wenger have openly stated more than once that they want him to stay, so the plan was to buy these two to play alongside rvp not to replace him.

Rvp's has had his head turned by money, end of.

Only the truly gullible would believe its to win trophies.

They guy is nearly 30 and he knows that means he has weaker bargaining power. Citeh have offered him a ridiculous contract of a quarter of a million a week for 4 years, he must be fucking laughing himself to sleep every night at the moment. Plus he will have less work to do to actually win trophies as he will have plenty of other top players around him to come on and help out.

Just another player interested in joining in with the football fantasy world.

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Originally Posted by V-Pig

Could be a great gamble. Make him play. Be great. Make him realise how wrong he was and beg to stay to see out the remainder of his contract.

Ah, we can dream.

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Yeh, and maybe win a trophy or 2 and see him beg to stay at the end of next season.



Then make him wait a month or so, then release a statement on the club website, saying how we like him as a player but we don't see him on our plans anymore and he can fuck off.

All the best rvp

From Arsenal FC.

:)

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Originally Posted by Jeebus

Of course they were additions, he is still an arsenal player and the club and wenger have openly stated more than once that they want him to stay, so the plan was to buy these two to play alongside rvp not to replace him.

Rvp's has had his head turned by money, end of.

Only the truly gullible would believe its to win trophies.

They guy is nearly 30 and he knows that means he has weaker bargaining power. Citeh have offered him a ridiculous contract of a quarter of a million a week for 4 years, he must be fucking laughing himself to sleep every night at the moment. Plus he will have less work to do to actually win trophies as he will have plenty of other top players around him to come on and help out.

Just another player interested in joining in with the football fantasy world.

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BS. Giroud is slow, he's can't play on the flanks in 4-3-3, he's a central player and we never spend over £10m for a player at that age to sit on the bench. Never.

If they're additions, then we'll buy another striker and another winger if we lose Theo. but we won't.

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Originally Posted by Syn

More I think about this, the more I feel we should make him play out his contract. We have to stop getting bullied around and make a statement. I did understand PnG's earlier point that working with a disinterested co-worker who knows he's off is not ideal. I do understand that. But I really don't think Van Persie will give anything less than 100% - not because it's in the club's interest...he has made abundantly clear he doesn't care about causing conflict at the club, but because it's in Robin's interest to pull off another 25+ goal season.

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Except he has caused 100% conflict at the club with his statement.

yep, giroud was always the replacement. two strikers who can play in only one position, no brainer.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

BS. Giroud is slow, he's can't play on the flanks in 4-3-3, he's a central player and we never spend over £10m for a player at that age to sit on the bench. Never.

If they're additions, then we'll buy another striker and another winger if we lose Theo. but we won't.

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So even giroud coming out and saying that he didn't join to replace rvp but to play alongside him is BS?

Wenger and the club stating at least twice now to the press that they want him to sign a new contract and stay is BS?

Ok. You seem to know everything that has happened in the club anyway as your previous posts in this thread are stated as if they are fact, so you must be right.