Wenger must go end of the season

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Originally Posted by LDG

:ninja:

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That was a partly political broadcast brought to you by the Pravda Party.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Wenger gets the credit for the move to the Emirates, youth set up and even the smooth pitch surface we play on. Regards to lack of investment, I blame Wenger for spending the money foolishly. He chooses to search for so called players of the future and gambles on them. Our wage bill reflects that. We have millions to spend on player contracts for dozens of kids and not enough left in the pot for a world class talent. It's bad management but we all agree with that. I think.

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I'm not fully into the board talk either. They have their share of the blame of course, they are happy with what wenger is doing and they don't seem to be interested in what's going on pitch wise but purely in the financial, but who is it that keeps paying exorbitant high salaries to young players who haven't achieved anything yet, or squad players that are clearly not good enough? Salaries so high that we can't even shift these players when we want to offload them, we have to loan them out instead, Vela, Bendtner, Denilson etc.

We have the 3rd or 4th highest wage bill in the league, that does not show a lack of money, that is Wenger's policy!

He wanted to nurture and develop youth to facilitate the stadium move, paying relatively high salaries (for their wage and status) to young players to keep them here, from being snatched off and tempted elsewhere. He's gone too far with it and it shows. You were right when you said so much money on many young player contracts but not much left for some world class talents.

While we're not Man City, we're also not Everton either, there is surely money that can be spent judiciously, otherwise those salaries would be much lower. Wenger is utilizing the resources this way and choosing not to invest in more quality, the players who are actually worth the high wages. I'm not talking big splurges and team overhauls. 2-3 top quality players here and there now and again would boost the team. And I mean top quality, not project players or wildcards. He goes on about 'super super quality', but doesn't back it up.

For example, a top quality player like Mata (versatile left wing forward/attacking midfielder/support striker) was available in the summer and wanted to come to England, would have been a perfect Nasri/Cesc replacement, we were apparently interested, then let him go to Chelsea and get Benayoun on loan instead! Decent experienced squad player, but come on, for the Cesc and Nasri money is thats just silly. If we were waiting for the Cesc/Nasri situations to play out before wanting to sign, then that is poor management when it was obvious they would we going. If wages were an issue, then how much could we have free'd up for him instead of making a practice of paying the high wages to the players who were not worth it, comign back to bite us. That is poor utilization of resources, not a lack of resources.

The last super quality signing we had was Arshavin, and we had the money to bring him in, and managed to pay his wages too (apparently one of the highest at the club). But at the time he was a player that was worth it, and his boost helped us get 4th. [Its personally gone wrong in his case, playing out of his best position, maybe a lack of desire, but that's another issue]

With the 55 odd million from Cesc and Nasri, even with CL revenue, high ticket prices etc. most of the money has disappeared. Ok so we panic bought in the last hours of the window, but not 'super super quality'. This has been happening for a while, remember selling Adebayor for 25 million, Toure as well, and we thought we had money in the bank to spend? Most of it disappeared. We didn't use it to buy top quality replacements, but instead of players that are of the quality to hit the ground running, more project players that would probably need a season before getting into their stride, as well as the numerous young player contracts of course.

This is Wenger's doing, he is the economist here, he loves being frugal, and agrees with the board. Remember what he said at the end of this latest transfer window? 'Lots of clubs are being cautious, there is very little movement, see I was right, you need to be wary of economics and financial fair play'. It seems that Fabregas and Nasri money doesn't need to be spent on high level replacements, but into the bank to please the board. He loves it, and wants to do things his way, lets not kid ourselves that the board are putting “extreme” restrictions on him.

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Originally Posted by Tipsychubbs

I'm not fully into the board talk either. They have their share of the blame of course, they are happy with what wenger is doing and they don't seem to be interested in what's going on pitch wise but purely in the financial, but who is it that keeps paying exorbitant high salaries to young players who haven't achieved anything yet, or squad players that are clearly not good enough? Salaries so high that we can't even shift these players when we want to offload them, we have to loan them out instead, Vela, Bendtner, Denilson etc.

We have the 3rd or 4th highest wage bill in the league, that does not show a lack of money, that is Wenger's policy!

He wanted to nurture and develop youth to facilitate the stadium move, paying relatively high salaries (for their wage and status) to young players to keep them here, from being snatched off and tempted elsewhere. He's gone too far with it and it shows. You were right when you said so much money on many young player contracts but not much left for some world class talents.

While we're not Man City, we're also not Everton either, there is surely money that can be spent judiciously, otherwise those salaries would be much lower. Wenger is utilizing the resources this way and choosing not to invest in more quality, the players who are actually worth the high wages. I'm not talking big splurges and team overhauls. 2-3 top quality players here and there now and again would boost the team. And I mean top quality, not project players or wildcards. He goes on about 'super super quality', but doesn't back it up.

For example, a top quality player like Mata (versatile left wing forward/attacking midfielder/support striker) was available in the summer and wanted to come to England, would have been a perfect Nasri/Cesc replacement, we were apparently interested, then let him go to Chelsea and get Benayoun on loan instead! Decent experienced squad player, but come on, for the Cesc and Nasri money is thats just silly. If we were waiting for the Cesc/Nasri situations to play out before wanting to sign, then that is poor management when it was obvious they would we going. If wages were an issue, then how much could we have free'd up for him instead of making a practice of paying the high wages to the players who were not worth it, comign back to bite us. That is poor utilization of resources, not a lack of resources.

The last super quality signing we had was Arshavin, and we had the money to bring him in, and managed to pay his wages too (apparently one of the highest at the club). But at the time he was a player that was worth it, and his boost helped us get 4th. [Its personally gone wrong in his case, playing out of his best position, maybe a lack of desire, but that's another issue]

With the 55 odd million from Cesc and Nasri, even with CL revenue, high ticket prices etc. most of the money has disappeared. Ok so we panic bought in the last hours of the window, but not 'super super quality'. This has been happening for a while, remember selling Adebayor for 25 million, Toure as well, and we thought we had money in the bank to spend? Most of it disappeared. We didn't use it to buy top quality replacements, but instead of players that are of the quality to hit the ground running, more project players that would probably need a season before getting into their stride, as well as the numerous young player contracts of course.

This is Wenger's doing, he is the economist here, he loves being frugal, and agrees with the board. Remember what he said at the end of this latest transfer window? 'Lots of clubs are being cautious, there is very little movement, see I was right, you need to be wary of economics and financial fair play'. It seems that Fabregas and Nasri money doesn't need to be spent on high level replacements, but into the bank to please the board. He loves it, and wants to do things his way, lets not kid ourselves that the board are putting “extreme” restrictions on him.

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Top post. :gp:

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Originally Posted by Tipsychubbs

I'm not fully into the board talk either. They have their share of the blame of course, they are happy with what wenger is doing and they don't seem to be interested in what's going on pitch wise but purely in the financial, but who is it that keeps paying exorbitant high salaries to young players who haven't achieved anything yet, or squad players that are clearly not good enough? Salaries so high that we can't even shift these players when we want to offload them, we have to loan them out instead, Vela, Bendtner, Denilson etc.

We have the 3rd or 4th highest wage bill in the league, that does not show a lack of money, that is Wenger's policy!

He wanted to nurture and develop youth to facilitate the stadium move, paying relatively high salaries (for their wage and status) to young players to keep them here, from being snatched off and tempted elsewhere. He's gone too far with it and it shows. You were right when you said so much money on many young player contracts but not much left for some world class talents.

While we're not Man City, we're also not Everton either, there is surely money that can be spent judiciously, otherwise those salaries would be much lower. Wenger is utilizing the resources this way and choosing not to invest in more quality, the players who are actually worth the high wages. I'm not talking big splurges and team overhauls. 2-3 top quality players here and there now and again would boost the team. And I mean top quality, not project players or wildcards. He goes on about 'super super quality', but doesn't back it up.

For example, a top quality player like Mata (versatile left wing forward/attacking midfielder/support striker) was available in the summer and wanted to come to England, would have been a perfect Nasri/Cesc replacement, we were apparently interested, then let him go to Chelsea and get Benayoun on loan instead! Decent experienced squad player, but come on, for the Cesc and Nasri money is thats just silly. If we were waiting for the Cesc/Nasri situations to play out before wanting to sign, then that is poor management when it was obvious they would we going. If wages were an issue, then how much could we have free'd up for him instead of making a practice of paying the high wages to the players who were not worth it, comign back to bite us. That is poor utilization of resources, not a lack of resources.

The last super quality signing we had was Arshavin, and we had the money to bring him in, and managed to pay his wages too (apparently one of the highest at the club). But at the time he was a player that was worth it, and his boost helped us get 4th. [Its personally gone wrong in his case, playing out of his best position, maybe a lack of desire, but that's another issue]

With the 55 odd million from Cesc and Nasri, even with CL revenue, high ticket prices etc. most of the money has disappeared. Ok so we panic bought in the last hours of the window, but not 'super super quality'. This has been happening for a while, remember selling Adebayor for 25 million, Toure as well, and we thought we had money in the bank to spend? Most of it disappeared. We didn't use it to buy top quality replacements, but instead of players that are of the quality to hit the ground running, more project players that would probably need a season before getting into their stride, as well as the numerous young player contracts of course.

This is Wenger's doing, he is the economist here, he loves being frugal, and agrees with the board. Remember what he said at the end of this latest transfer window? 'Lots of clubs are being cautious, there is very little movement, see I was right, you need to be wary of economics and financial fair play'. It seems that Fabregas and Nasri money doesn't need to be spent on high level replacements, but into the bank to please the board. He loves it, and wants to do things his way, lets not kid ourselves that the board are putting “extreme” restrictions on him.

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Let's be fair here. I don't think there are many people on here defending Wenger as some angelic being in all of this. We all know he's cocking around, perhaps as a willing puppet of the board, or perhaps it's his ideal too.

What people are saying, is that the ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

They're happy with Wenger. They won't sack him. He's making them money.

Will Wenger (would anyone) leave a job where he's getting paid hansomly? Where he can do things his way? Of course not. Let's not forget, if he walks of his own accord, he doesn't get a pay off either.

And do you believe his quotes for one second? I mean, he may say one thing, but we have no idea whether he means it or not. The quote you posted stinks like fanny. It's fucking question time, and Arsene is towing the party line.

What I'm asking for (dunno about anyone else), is for someone on the board to start taking responsibility for the football side of things...and that means, either:

i) Sacking Wenger and providing ample resources to his successor
ii) Keeping Wenger, but telling him what the objective is....none of this fourth place crap. "Build me an army worthy of Arsenal!" type thing.

Problem with i) is that we have to appoint the right man

Problem with ii) is, would he listen? But if he doesn't get his own way, he'll bugger off anyway....

Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, the responsibilty for putting this club on the right track again, lies heavily on the boards shoulders...because if they want success in the pitch (and not just 4th place, and actually challenging like we've been promised) then they have to put that as the managers objective, and failure or stubborness, or contempt should be met with dismissal.

That is the way to tell whether Wenger is the mug he is looking like at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Tipsychubbs

I'm not fully into the board talk either. They have their share of the blame of course, they are happy with what wenger is doing and they don't seem to be interested in what's going on pitch wise but purely in the financial, but who is it that keeps paying exorbitant high salaries to young players who haven't achieved anything yet, or squad players that are clearly not good enough? Salaries so high that we can't even shift these players when we want to offload them, we have to loan them out instead, Vela, Bendtner, Denilson etc.

We have the 3rd or 4th highest wage bill in the league, that does not show a lack of money, that is Wenger's policy!

He wanted to nurture and develop youth to facilitate the stadium move, paying relatively high salaries (for their wage and status) to young players to keep them here, from being snatched off and tempted elsewhere. He's gone too far with it and it shows. You were right when you said so much money on many young player contracts but not much left for some world class talents.

While we're not Man City, we're also not Everton either, there is surely money that can be spent judiciously, otherwise those salaries would be much lower. Wenger is utilizing the resources this way and choosing not to invest in more quality, the players who are actually worth the high wages. I'm not talking big splurges and team overhauls. 2-3 top quality players here and there now and again would boost the team. And I mean top quality, not project players or wildcards. He goes on about 'super super quality', but doesn't back it up.

For example, a top quality player like Mata (versatile left wing forward/attacking midfielder/support striker) was available in the summer and wanted to come to England, would have been a perfect Nasri/Cesc replacement, we were apparently interested, then let him go to Chelsea and get Benayoun on loan instead! Decent experienced squad player, but come on, for the Cesc and Nasri money is thats just silly. If we were waiting for the Cesc/Nasri situations to play out before wanting to sign, then that is poor management when it was obvious they would we going. If wages were an issue, then how much could we have free'd up for him instead of making a practice of paying the high wages to the players who were not worth it, comign back to bite us. That is poor utilization of resources, not a lack of resources.

The last super quality signing we had was Arshavin, and we had the money to bring him in, and managed to pay his wages too (apparently one of the highest at the club). But at the time he was a player that was worth it, and his boost helped us get 4th. [Its personally gone wrong in his case, playing out of his best position, maybe a lack of desire, but that's another issue]

With the 55 odd million from Cesc and Nasri, even with CL revenue, high ticket prices etc. most of the money has disappeared. Ok so we panic bought in the last hours of the window, but not 'super super quality'. This has been happening for a while, remember selling Adebayor for 25 million, Toure as well, and we thought we had money in the bank to spend? Most of it disappeared. We didn't use it to buy top quality replacements, but instead of players that are of the quality to hit the ground running, more project players that would probably need a season before getting into their stride, as well as the numerous young player contracts of course.

This is Wenger's doing, he is the economist here, he loves being frugal, and agrees with the board. Remember what he said at the end of this latest transfer window? 'Lots of clubs are being cautious, there is very little movement, see I was right, you need to be wary of economics and financial fair play'. It seems that Fabregas and Nasri money doesn't need to be spent on high level replacements, but into the bank to please the board. He loves it, and wants to do things his way, lets not kid ourselves that the board are putting “extreme” restrictions on him.

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Very good post. :gp:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Let's be fair here. I don't think there are many people on here defending Wenger as some angelic being in all of this. We all know he's cocking around, perhaps as a willing puppet of the board, or perhaps it's his ideal too.What people are saying, is that the ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.They're happy with Wenger. They won't sack him. He's making them money.Will Wenger (would anyone) leave a job where he's getting paid hansomly? Where he can do things his way? Of course not. Let's not forget, if he walks of his own accord, he doesn't get a pay off either.And do you believe his quotes for one second? I mean, he may say one thing, but we have no idea whether he means it or not. The quote you posted stinks like fanny. It's fucking question time, and Arsene is towing the party line.What I'm asking for (dunno about anyone else), is for someone on the board to start taking responsibility for the football side of things...and that means, either:i) Sacking Wenger and providing ample resources to his successorii) Keeping Wenger, but telling him what the objective is....none of this fourth place crap. "Build me an army worthy of Arsenal!" type thing.Problem with i) is that we have to appoint the right manProblem with ii) is, would he listen? But if he doesn't get his own way, he'll bugger off anyway....Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, the responsibilty for putting this club on the right track again, lies heavily on the boards shoulders...because if they want success in the pitch (and not just 4th place, and actually challenging like we've been promised) then they have to put that as the managers objective, and failure or stubborness, or contempt should be met with dismissal.That is the way to tell whether Wenger is the mug he is looking like at the moment.

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We were talking specifically about a lack of investment in the squad and I think Tipsy's post addresses that. Ultimate responsibility wasn't part of the conversation and I think everyone has said the Board have played their part in our demise. That's not what this is about. I just don't agree with this idea that the Board have set Wenger up to operate on a shoestring budget. Has actions, words and the numbers suggest otherwise. I we'd have stayed at Highbury, we'd never be able to afford this. The wage bill has gone up and keeps going up because he's overindulged in this youth project. He's using his resources badly which is why disagree strongly with people that suggest the Board have placed limits in him.

I also think there is a double standard with quotes as well. You don't trust Wenger's words and think he's covering even though his actions, words and the numbers are all in line with his beliefs which suggests he wants to make this youth policy work.

Actions - He buys unknown young players and never spends over £15m on a player. That has been since Highbury even though we make a profit in transfer windows and income has risen. He has no problem spending big on young players like Walnut, Ox and Rambo...but passes up the opportunity to buy someone like Sessegnon, players with experience that won't cost crazy money. He pushed for the youth academy and thought it was important for the clubs future, he persists with the same players game after game even when playing badly. His actions from past to present shows that he firmly believes in what he's doing and he continues to pass up transfer opportunities because he doesn't want to 'kill' certain players.

Words - Speaking of killing players, how many times has he come out to defend our policy and criticise teams that spend big? He seems totally against the City and talks as if it's morally wrong and i can't imagine that to be some sort of smokescreen. How can you dismiss that sort of talk and say you don't know why to believe? Wenger can talk shit sometimes but he's pretty consistent with this and his words math up with his actions. If he says he believes in this squad and he proves it with his actions. I don't think he's covering for anyone. He admires the Ajax system, lives working with young players and decided to take a coaching job in Japan of all places. He's a humble guy in that respect.

Numbers - our contract situation. If the money wasn't there, we wouldn't be able to afford the players we currently have. We spend millions on rubbish and that's just bad management. Again, we gamble big on young prospects but hardly spend on little known experienced players these days. I remember Wenger talking about knowing about Ronaldo and Ronaldinho when they were kids but he couldn't sign them. He must think we have potential world beaters on our hands which is why he persists with them and throws money at them.

As for the Board, I think it's beyond them to come up with such a long term plan. They don't have the forsight and if so we'd have been a feeder club years before Wenger. They don't have enough knowledge about the game to think amble on youth like this. We need someone up their that knows about football to really push Wenger and keep him on his toes but that sounds more like a Director of Football role and I doubt that would sit well with Wenger. You here him when the fans booed the sub and his arrogant comment. For a director to question his supreme judgement....pff...the audacity! It would cause a problem and that's why he's comfortable here. I blame the Board for that and I hope they are starting to probe with uncomfortable questions because they should be able to spot the same patterns and excuses as we all have over the years.

Please excuse any errors - this was down my iPhone the key pad is a real bitch. Fixed now.

Man, no-one is going to read that.

You need to stick some paragraphs in there.

tl;dr

We all know the reasons why he should go. They are, and have been evident for a while now.

Is he really a club man or here for the 6 million a year he gets?.

I am certain he is here for the love of the Club. But he and the Club need a change. Now.