Wenger's future, possible extension and possible... departure?

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

It's one thing saying you'd prefer X guy instead or you don't want him, it's another thing making up ignorant shit like he's mediocre, a loser, overrated or he "failed" when it's clear he has zero idea about how his spell at Dortmund went which is why I called him that.

And if losing 4 - 3 at Anfield to a Klopp Liverpool side makes you a shit manager then god forbid, I'd like to hear your opinion on Pep. It was one bad result where they threw away what should have been a sure win.

And I don't think he's any worse at organising a defence than say a Pep is. Moreover it matters less for managers like them because they utterly dominate team offensively to the point where it rarely matters how well their defence is as long as they have some reasonably competent people back there. In fact there's a famous anecdote about how he met Pep for lunch during his gap year and they spent two hours talking and discussing tactics using the salt & pepper shakers. :lol:

And you can't have it both ways PnG. You can't at one point dismiss Bayern & PSG wanting him by saying even Wenger would win the league there but then at the same time clamour for someone like Allegeri who also wins league titles in a league where one club has it dominated. And for the record, I'd be ecstatic with Allegri.





Wouldn't go that far on Allardyce. He'd make us defensively more secure certainly but we'd struggle to even create a single shot on target.

Everton fans already want him gone.


And Tuchel > Luis Enrique tbh.

The latter didn't do well at Roma.

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Allegri also won the league with Milan besides Juve and has taken Juve to the CL final twice. His record in Europe shows that he's not just a manager that's dominant in a one sided league. Also, Serie A has more potential for upsets compared to the Bundesliga. I'd argue Juve's resurgence as a force in Europe comes back to smart managerial appointments with Conte and Allegeri. Inter were dominating for ages until Jose left and Allegeri won it with Milan.

If I had said a massive club like Barca or Bayern were interested in Allegeri as if that somehow validates why I think we should go for him, that would be having it both ways. Tuchel has a very short record with Dortmund. It's not enough for me to know where he's flavour of the month or the real deal. If Brendan Rodgers were linked with Bayern or PSG, would that suddenly make him a better manager?

Doesn't the fact that he fell out so quickly with staff and players concern you? You still haven't answered that one. For Dortmund to let him go so quickly says a lot. Again, not saying he is shit, just saying it's a big risk.

All I know is if Wenger really is being replaced by Tuchel in the summer then forget about Tuchel. Honestly. Who the fuck cares who the new manager is? The real news here is Wenger is fucking off. The spell broken. The dictator toppled. The naked emperor finally laughed out of the place.

The next manager doesn't have to stay for 22 years!

The next manager is almost irrelevant. Getting Wenger out is the pay out, the win. After the damage he's done to the club from top to bottom there's nobody out there who can arrive and fix it all in one hit. But we can recover one important aspect of reality, we can become a normal club again in one respect. We'll be able to fire the manager if he fucks it up.

So what possible concerns could we have about Tuchel, compared to Wenger? Of course, get the bloke in. If he wins games then keep him. If he fucks up then fire him. A new concept at Arsenal, granted, but one we should embrace joyously. And that's just one aspect of reality that could be restored.

Personally I don't see it though. I think the old bastard will somehow find a way to hang on, even if it means doing the unthinkable for him and winning something in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Özim

What difference does that make, he came 2nd, Klopps achievement is superior because he won it, to compare it is pointless, it was a different situation with different teams and players.

The point is that Tuchel hasn't achieved anything, his record in the CL isn't that great, he then got knocked out in a pretty embarrassing way of the Europa leauge and Dortmund ended up 3rd in the league which considering their players and that they are the 2nd best team is poor as well.

The reality is he's totally unproven and his record is nothing special and that's my point, would prefer someone with some sort of record of success.

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I've heard Tuchel has ruled out a move to Arseanl anyway. If the move were still on, for me, he'd fit in to the 2nd tier of managers we've been linked with.

3rd Teir
Henry
Arteta

2nd Teir
Brendan Rodgers
Joachim Low
Tuchel

1st
Jardim
Luis Enrique
Ancelotti
Allegri


3rd tier are those taking on their first job and that's a risk I'd want to avoid.

2nd tier - managers with serious question marks against their record. Rodgers is the lowest of the 2nd tier for obvious reasons. He has a league title and cups with Celtic but would have to do a lot better in Europe to take him seriously. Low has no recent club experience despite being a WC winner. Managing a club team is a different beast. I'd rate Tuchel over him just because I think Low would have a steep learning curve.

1st teir

League winners. Jardim is the less accomplished but what he has done with Monaco is remarkable. Was close to ranking him ahead of Luis Enrique because Barca are Barca... but you get the idea. Simeone would be in this bracket but we have no chance of getting him.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

All I know is if Wenger really is being replaced by Tuchel in the summer then forget about Tuchel. Honestly. Who the fuck cares who the new manager is? The real news here is Wenger is fucking off. The spell broken. The dictator toppled. The naked emperor finally laughed out of the place.

The next manager doesn't have to stay for 22 years!

The next manager is almost irrelevant. Getting Wenger out is the pay out, the win. After the damage he's done to the club from top to bottom there's nobody out there who can arrive and fix it all in one hit. But we can recover one important aspect of reality, we can become a normal club again in one respect. We'll be able to fire the manager if he fucks it up.

So what possible concerns could we have about Tuchel, compared to Wenger? Of course, get the bloke in. If he wins games then keep him. If he fucks up then fire him. A new concept at Arsenal, granted, but one we should embrace joyously. And that's just one aspect of reality that could be restored.

Personally I don't see it though. I think the old bastard will somehow find a way to hang on, even if it means doing the unthinkable for him and winning something in Europe.

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Whilst I agree in principle, what also worries me is Arsenal have a history of holding onto managers and not sacking them, so if we got someone substandard, wouldn't surprise me for them to take about 6 years to get rid of him.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I've heard Tuchel has ruled out a move to Arseanl anyway. If the move were still on, for me, he'd fit in to the 2nd tier of managers we've been linked with.

3rd Teir
Henry
Arteta

2nd Teir
Brendan Rodgers
Joachim Low
Tuchel

1st
Jardim
Luis Enrique
Ancelotti
Allegri


3rd tier are those taking on their first job and that's a risk I'd want to avoid.

2nd tier - managers with serious question marks against their record. Rodgers is the lowest of the 2nd tier for obvious reasons. He has a league title and cups with Celtic but would have to do a lot better in Europe to take him seriously. Low has no recent club experience despite being a WC winner. Managing a club team is a different beast. I'd rate Tuchel over him just because I think Low would have a steep learning curve.

1st teir

League winners. Jardim is the less accomplished but what he has done with Monaco is remarkable. Was close to ranking him ahead of Luis Enrique because Barca are Barca... but you get the idea. Simeone would be in this bracket but we have no chance of getting him.

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I'm with you, the like of Jardim, Allegri would be good, Simeone would be great too but realistically that won't happen as you say, if he moved it would be to one of the elite clubs.

Not really interested in 2nd tier managers personally, managers who haven't really delivered, if i had to choose I'd probably rather take a chance on an Henry or a 3rd tier guy (Vieira?)then go for the 2nd tier, at least with the untested there's a chance they could turn out top notch as has happened a few times, 2nd tier for me have already kinda proved the aren't quite good enough to be top bracket.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I've heard Tuchel has ruled out a move to Arseanl anyway. If the move were still on, for me, he'd fit in to the 2nd tier of managers we've been linked with.

3rd Teir
Henry
Arteta

2nd Teir
Brendan Rodgers
Joachim Low
Tuchel

1st
Jardim
Luis Enrique
Ancelotti
Allegri


3rd tier are those taking on their first job and that's a risk I'd want to avoid.

2nd tier - managers with serious question marks against their record. Rodgers is the lowest of the 2nd tier for obvious reasons. He has a league title and cups with Celtic but would have to do a lot better in Europe to take him seriously. Low has no recent club experience despite being a WC winner. Managing a club team is a different beast. I'd rate Tuchel over him just because I think Low would have a steep learning curve.

1st teir

League winners. Jardim is the less accomplished but what he has done with Monaco is remarkable. Was close to ranking him ahead of Luis Enrique because Barca are Barca... but you get the idea. Simeone would be in this bracket but we have no chance of getting him.

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This is like a tramp being invited in off the street and then criticising the menu. Getting fed is the key, not quibbling about Michelin stars.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Whilst I agree in principle, what also worries me is Arsenal have a history of holding onto managers and not sacking them, so if we got someone substandard, wouldn't surprise me for them to take about 6 years to get rid of him.

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That has to change. If we're just looking for another Wenger then we're done anyway. It's the philosophy of the club that has to change, just as much as the manager has to be changed. The manager needs to serve the new philosophy, not the other way around as it has been for all these years.

Regardless, the new guy doesn't come in with that "look what he's done for the club" get out of jail free (a thousand times) card. Ridding ourselves of the cult of Wenger will automatically remove many problems.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

That has to change. If we're just looking for another Wenger then we're done anyway. It's the philosophy of the club that has to change, just as much as the manager has to be changed. The manager needs to serve the new philosophy, not the other way around as it has been for all these years.

Regardless, the new guy doesn't come in with that "look what he's done for the club" get out of jail free (a thousand times) card. Ridding ourselves of the cult of Wenger will automatically remove many problems.

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Totally agree, just not sure if the club do, ideally a manager comes in and has to prove he's good enough (he'll need a couple seasons at least go sort things out and put his own stamp after the mess that's been left), if he doesn't he should be sacked.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Totally agree, just not sure if the club do, ideally a manager comes in and has to prove he's good enough (he'll need a couple seasons at least go sort things out and put his own stamp after the mess that's been left), if he doesn't he should be sacked.

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Yep. A serious title challenge within 2 years or out and get the next guy. Football has changed. There's no advantage to a manager hanging on for years now because the players aren't being brought up at the club and seeing out their careers with one club. It's all a transfer merry-go-round and there's no loyalty anywhere. Just the way it is and Wenger trying to buck that reality (even if he's right about the state of football in principle) has given us a bunch of comfortable players that are happy with second best - disastrous for a competitive sports team. Having a manager with his own neck on the line will solve that problem.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

This is like a tramp being invited in off the street and then criticising the menu. Getting fed is the key, not quibbling about Michelin stars.

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That's an insult to the fans. Not all of us stupid or willing accept whatever is served up. You're comparing us to tramps? So we should like it or lump it? No thanks.