What Are Leicester Playing At?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The lie is shattered. Can people see that and accept it?

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What Leicester are doing should not be possible, they've shown it is. I almost can't believe what they're doing this season. But that doesn't mean that the correlation between money and success is a lie or a coincidence. I seriously doubt Leicester will push on and dominate, the most likely outcome is their players will be hoovered up by the right boys and the status quo will be restored.
Don't mix up possible and probable. If I say it's dangerous to cross a busy road blindfolded and you do so and happen to make it that doesn't show that I was lying or the general principle of what I said was wrong.

All that said, it would be absolutely fantastic if Leicester were to win it, if only to show that it is possible. I didn't think what they're doing could happen in the modern game, it would be the best thing to happen in football for decades.

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Originally Posted by Letters

What Leicester are doing should not be possible, they've shown it is. I almost can't believe what they're doing this season. But that doesn't mean that the correlation between money and success is a lie or a coincidence. I seriously doubt Leicester will push on and dominate, the most likely outcome is their players will be hoovered up by the right boys and the status quo will be restored.
Don't mix up possible and probable. If I say it's dangerous to cross a busy road blindfolded and you do so and happen to make it that doesn't show that I was lying or the general principle of what I said was wrong.

All that said, it would be absolutely fantastic if Leicester were to win it, if only to show that it is possible. I didn't think what they're doing could happen in the modern game, it would be the best thing to happen in football for decades.

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I agree but I think the point that Wenger has complained in the past about being handicapped because he's fighting with teams that have unlimited budgets won't wash come the end of the season regardless of whether Leicester win the league or not. Leicester are pretty much nailed on for a top 4 spot, Spurs too given their current form and they don't exactly go out and blow millions like City and the dopers.

I agree that having an unlimited budget/being financially doped gives you a headstart but the manager/club needs to build the team correctly in order for it to be effective. The same applies to a team that isn't financially doped and we are seeing that through astute team building, tactical planning and attention to detail that the underdogs can challenge the big boys.

I'm not so sure Wenger would dominate this league if he had unlimited resources because he has a tendency to buy a specific type of player and build a team/squad in a specific way, that has nothing to do with finances or lack of them.

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Originally Posted by Letters

What Leicester are doing should not be possible, they've shown it is. I almost can't believe what they're doing this season. But that doesn't mean that the correlation between money and success is a lie or a coincidence. I seriously doubt Leicester will push on and dominate, the most likely outcome is their players will be hoovered up by the right boys and the status quo will be restored.
Don't mix up possible and probable. If I say it's dangerous to cross a busy road blindfolded and you do so and happen to make it that doesn't show that I was lying or the general principle of what I said was wrong.

All that said, it would be absolutely fantastic if Leicester were to win it, if only to show that it is possible. I didn't think what they're doing could happen in the modern game, it would be the best thing to happen in football for decades.

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I'm talking about Wenger's excuses for failure to compete. This goes back to the tail end of last season where we showed finance wasn't an insurmountable hurdle as we led the doping gypos into the final stretch and could have finished ahead of them were it not for our customary collapse which had little to to with finance at that late stage of the season and everything to do with desire. Now another nail has been hammered into that coffin by the performance Leicester City has put up, a club with virtually no resources by comparison to ourselves or the gypos. Whatever their formula for success is this season, and I suspect it is very much more than walking into traffic blindfolded 25 times and getting lucky on all bar two occasions, it's something Wenger hasn't been able to achieve in a decade of trying. One of the main excuses he's used to explain his continued failure is the handicap he has to suffer financially. The truth is somewhat different. The financial restraints are gone and he's still in the same place as ever, on the same number of points and hovering around the same position despite the fact we now have players like Ozil, Alexis and Cech in the team. Even with these players we haven't seen an improvement. That's a shocking indictment and it's totally fair to ask what this man can do for this club given the excuses he's used to explain persistent under-performance have been washed away. In a stunning display of flip-flopping even he has said look, you don't need the big resources to put in a strong challenge. Even he accepts this excuse has been used up.

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Originally Posted by selassie

I agree but I think the point that Wenger has complained in the past about being handicapped because he's fighting with teams that have unlimited budgets won't wash come the end of the season regardless of whether Leicester win the league or not. Leicester are pretty much nailed on for a top 4 spot, Spurs too given their current form and they don't exactly go out and blow millions like City and the dopers.

I agree that having an unlimited budget/being financially doped gives you a headstart but the manager/club needs to build the team correctly in order for it to be effective. The same applies to a team that isn't financially doped and we are seeing that through astute team building, tactical planning and attention to detail that the underdogs can challenge the big boys.

I'm not so sure Wenger would dominate this league if he had unlimited resources because he has a tendency to buy a specific type of player and build a team/squad in a specific way, that has nothing to do with finances or lack of them.

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Good point highlighted. There is a certain irony in this given the manager's previous complaints about financial doping. But win the league or not, Leicester and Ranieri have shown the effectiveness of getting the basics right. Playing a settled team rather than constantly chopping and changing; playing players in their best positions - and most importantly motivating and giving the team confidence - which partly derives from the first 2. Its pretty much the opposite of Wenger's approach.

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Originally Posted by IBK

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Good point highlighted. There is a certain irony in this given the manager's previous complaints about financial doping. But win the league or not, Leicester and Ranieri have shown the effectiveness of getting the basics right. Playing a settled team rather than constantly chopping and changing; playing players in their best positions - and most importantly motivating and giving the team confidence - which partly derives from the first 2. Its pretty much the opposite of Wenger's approach.

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It would be interesting to see if Wenger's hand wasnt' turned by so many injuries, what his approach would be. That said, Leicester have still used 20 players through the league campaign, the uniformity is derived from the same desire, approach and understanding of their managers tactics in every game.

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Originally Posted by Kano

It would be interesting to see if Wenger's hand wasnt' turned by so many injuries, what his approach would be. That said, Leicester have still used 20 players through the league campaign, the uniformity is derived from the same desire, approach and understanding of their managers tactics in every game.

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Well put. And its also a virtuous circle for them - the uniformity breeds effectiveness breeds confidence. The reason Leicester are now favourites is partly because their players believe that they will win every game - yet they are not complacent. Our players seem to lack this belief against certain teams, and with others they seem often to be a bit complacent.


Injuries are interesting. They have certainly left Arsenal short at times in key positions that were not adequately covered. Yet in other respects they have been responsible for the emergence of some of his best players. There is a feeling that players covering for injury often don't have the correct understanding tactics wise, and this is a reflection that certain players don't have an innate understanding of what they should be doing. Wenger relies on this attribute to a large degree but many players simply do not have this, and need more guidance. Then there is the managers inconsistent approach to injured players. Some, like Sanchez seem to be overplayed/rushed back, whereas others are treated more cautiously, even when there is a glaring need for them to play. I suspect that this has much to do with the manager's fondness for a data based approach to team selection - which from the outside at least appears to be very different to Ranieri's.

Injuries can't be used to excuse Wenger when you have players like Walcott, Rosicky and Wilshere in the squad. These players spend their lives injured so what's the big surprise? The key point made above is these injuries have hit key areas the manager failed to and refused to cover properly. And then he compounded the negligence by going out and buying "cover" that wasn't up to starting a PL match. It's absolutely ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Injuries can't be used to excuse Wenger when you have players like Walcott, Rosicky and Wilshere in the squad. These players spend their lives injured so what's the big surprise? The key point made above is these injuries have hit key areas the manager failed to and refused to cover properly. And then he compounded the negligence by going out and buying "cover" that wasn't up to starting a PL match. It's absolutely ludicrous.

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Again you have to question Wengers logic in this one. The Elmo chap was I believe playing regularly in his previous team so how can he not be fit. Wenger is never consistent in his arguments. Basically if the team is getting by(ie not losing, not winning either) as we have been doing of late, He will keep playing the same team. Witness his reluctance to play Coq now even though he is over his injury. If you are easing him in why cant it be for the 1st 45 mins. Why only the last 20 mins. He only stumbles on a better player, when the crap player gets injured. It will probably take Ramsey or Flamini getting injured or red carded for Coq to get his place back. How long did he play Wilshere for and Sanchez, when they urgently needed rotation.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Well put. And its also a virtuous circle for them - the uniformity breeds effectiveness breeds confidence. The reason Leicester are now favourites is partly because their players believe that they will win every game - yet they are not complacent. Our players seem to lack this belief against certain teams, and with others they seem often to be a bit complacent.


Injuries are interesting. They have certainly left Arsenal short at times in key positions that were not adequately covered. Yet in other respects they have been responsible for the emergence of some of his best players. There is a feeling that players covering for injury often don't have the correct understanding tactics wise, and this is a reflection that certain players don't have an innate understanding of what they should be doing. Wenger relies on this attribute to a large degree but many players simply do not have this, and need more guidance. Then there is the managers inconsistent approach to injured players. Some, like Sanchez seem to be overplayed/rushed back, whereas others are treated more cautiously, even when there is a glaring need for them to play. I suspect that this has much to do with the manager's fondness for a data based approach to team selection - which from the outside at least appears to be very different to Ranieri's.

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The root cause of the injuries we’re no nearer to understanding all these years on, it’s a dead end for us fans pursuing that line of thought. I am convinced the club has done all it can to try and rectify the situation. Even if the thought was the club is happy with 4th, by not trying to fix the injury plague they run the risk of not even achieving that by not trying to find a solution.

My feeling on the ‘discovery’ of players through injuries to others is that it is quite a normal occurrence – the difference is that we notice every single thing nowadays because absolutely everything is reported in the press. I think it is just as common for a player to get his chance off the back of someone else’s injury as it is for them just to get a shot at the first team purely on merit. One footballers success can typically be correlated to someone else’s bad luck. One example I heard recently was the Eastleigh keeper, who at one time was the back-up to Edvin van der Sar at Fulham and now finds himself down in the non-league. These sort of things happen all the time, good and bad, so I think the fact that we have knowledge about how Coquelin or Bellerin came into the first team shouldn’t be used as another stick to beat Wenger with. The most important thing is he gave them a chance at all, so his belief in the players had to be there for that to happen. If Le Coq was seen as a waste of space out on loan at Charlton, Wenger would never have recalled him in the first place. We’ve heard many more stories of players going out on loan and never coming back. That he and Bellerin have gone on to become so good is the luck element – but that’s the same for any player.

The fairest way of looking how we deal with the non/rushing back of players compared to other teams because our own over analysis skews our rationality at the best of times. Aguero and Andy Carroll are two players that spring to mind for me. They both appear to be players that are in a constant loop of injury and return, injury and return and I wonder if City and West Ham fans criticise their managers for rushing them back too quickly, or if they fall in line with our treatment. Sturridge could also be used as a similar comparison too. I would say that a lot of teams appear to ‘rush’ back key players because they are so crucial to the team. The thing with Coquelin at the moment I can understand. He played a full game against Burnley and I think it’s fair to say, his presence didn’t make too much of a difference to the chaos in midfield. He has looked short of fitness and I would rather he is eased back into the team, where he is required to be fully ready for battle in the heartbeat of a football game, than have him break down and lose him for another month or two. He did come back faster than anyone anticipated and I think caution is the best option in his case. Elmo was away by his wife’s side as she just had their baby, which is quite normal.

The interesting thing about Leicester is their average age – the second oldest in the league and two years older than our own. Added to the spirit and cohesiveness of the squad, I think that maturity as well as where they stand career wise individually at this point has helped them produce this consistency. They played really good football last season and when Pearson changed tactic and went more direct, they saw results change dramatically toward the end of last season which saw them somehow finish 14th, when a dozen games earlier they were bottom of the league seemingly ready for relegation. As a group I think they understand that they will may never have this sort of chance again, so together with their slightly more ‘advanced’ years, they are willing to go that extra mile and having seen the results this manager has led them to, they are all-in.

Along with the age issue - the other interesting thing about Leicester is that they give the ball away more than any other team in the league & yet there top. Sort of puts a bit of a shitter on the possession theory. But, because they get the ball forward quicker & dont fuck about tippy tappying everywhere - they are surrendering the ball in less dangerous areas. It would be interesting to know the stat of how many goals are conceeded by teams overplaying in their own halves.
The other thing I like about Leicester which frustrates the hell out of me with us & as has done for a while was highlighted at the weekend. Leicester took the lead at City but still attacked as much as they had done at 0-0. They went 3-0 up because of this. With City always likely to score it shows the importance of not sitting back & defending leads. Look at Utd, as soon as they took the lead yesterday, they defended deeper & sat back. Chelsea had 90% of the ball after Utd scored!! & look what happened. Exactly the same as what the wonder of Wenger did for us against Liverpool. Exactly what we have done all season & did again at the weekend. Sit back & shut up shop. Bournemouth created enough chances 2nd half to get back level - ALL because we had dropped off, defended deeper & let them have more of the ball in our half. We need to attack Leicester on Sunday like we did against Utd - no questions, just get at them & let them worry about defending agaisnt players like Ozil & Sanchez. If we score 1st we get straight down the other end in search of the second & then the 3rd etc etc - thats what builds team confidence & wins titles.