Wenger after 2017

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Oh are you saying those trophies aint real.?
Seriously, we are our own worst enemies or do it on purpose which is what I think is going on. Wenger prefers to buy average players or buys what he thinks ae potentially world class players. This gives him time to work with them before success gets to their heads or lack of it makes them know their place. You dont here Wilshere or Walcott complaining do you. He buys world class players only when the pressure is on and the coterie of average joes fail repeatedly. But never enough of the world class to make up for the dross. In many instances the better players will be watching the clunkers from the bench while Wenger weaves his magic with them.

If the manager is not hungry for titles and neither is the owner, then only the fans rarely can tip the balance.
In truth we have never been short of money only the will to spend it and the only person who kept on making the case that others spending hindered us was Wenger, which Leicester are about to prove conclusively, is not true.

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If you think the stadium has had no impact on our finances, than i think all i can do is suggest you wait and see what Spurs end up spending over the next five-ten seasons, and how many of their current squad they will end up selling to other clubs.
Again not to immunise Wenger from criticism because there are at least two or three seasons where we had a squad good enough to win the title since moving to the Emirates and Wenger botched it.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

True, except for the fact people aren't saying we should finish above Leicester because we have more money than them. We should finish above them because we've supposedly, got better players than them.

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And why have we got better players than them...?

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Originally Posted by Dicks and chicks

I hear Garde is avaliable......

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So is Neville...

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's funny because I've explained to you over and over the pressure Wenger is under.
Like any employee he is under pressure to deliver what his bosses expect.
It seems that the board expects top 4 football of him which he keeps delivering. And during the years where the finances were such that it was hard for us to compete with City and Chelsea maybe that was a fairly reasonable deliverable. IMO now we have the finances to compete he should be delivering more.

Of course he's under pressure, from himself and from the board. Do you think that by endlessly repeating the statement that he's under no pressure that makes it true?
He's kept his job because he's delivered what the board expect although that may not entirely tally with what the fans expect or hope for.
Had he taken us into mid-table (as many predicted he would) for any length of time he'd have been long gone.

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I don't think there is any pressure for him to push on and win major honours, everything i've read about Stan Kroenke and his ownership of Sports franchises on the other side of the Atlantic tells me that as long as we keep making money he will not care about anything else.
Will that be enough for Wenger though?....who knows....I suspect the reason he has been with us so long is not about the money (as everyone who knows him personally says that he is not motivated by enrichment) but because there really isn't anything else for him outside Football, is that an excuse for him to carry on in perpetuity without at least making a concerted run for the top trophies? No of course not but to suggest he doesn't care about us winning (which many people on here do) simply has no merit.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Ah but wait let's not forget we're already winners, 4th place winners and that's just as good as the CL or League, so let's not be disappointed and pat ourselves on the back for our trophy cabinet full of imaginary 4th placed trophies.

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Yeah, we haven't won any trophies for...well, there was last year...and the year before actually...but those don't count #goalpostmoving.

And yes, we have plenty of money now and Wenger has been spending it, we're 3rd highest spenders over the last 3 years. Before that with the old financial deals we were restricted somewhat. I think Wenger could and should have spent more in that period but it's simplistic to say Wenger chooses not to spend money. He is, overall, too cautious IMO and his transfer dealings have been questionable but as soon as the new deals were in place he started spending money in a way he never had before.

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's funny because I've explained to you over and over the pressure Wenger is under.
Like any employee he is under pressure to deliver what his bosses expect.
It seems that the board expects top 4 football of him which he keeps delivering. And during the years where the finances were such that it was hard for us to compete with City and Chelsea maybe that was a fairly reasonable deliverable. IMO now we have the finances to compete he should be delivering more.

Of course he's under pressure, from himself and from the board. Do you think that by endlessly repeating the statement that he's under no pressure that makes it true?
He's kept his job because he's delivered what the board expect although that may not entirely tally with what the fans expect or hope for.
Had he taken us into mid-table (as many predicted he would) for any length of time he'd have been long gone.

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But that assumption, like most things on here, isn't based on anything really tangible.

No-one in the club has ever said top four was the minimum, that is just what we as fans have placed as minimal expectation. Finishing mid-table is just an extreme opposing opinion, when in fact finishing 5/6th on a few occassions may well have had no impact on his position in the club.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't think there is any pressure for him to push on and win major honours, everything i've read about Stan Kroenke and his ownership of Sports franchises on the other side of the Atlantic tells me that as long as we keep making money he will not care about anything else.
Will that be enough for Wenger though?....who knows....I suspect the reason he has been with us so long is not about the money (as everyone who knows him personally says that he is not motivated by enrichment) but because there really isn't anything else for him outside Football, is that an excuse for him to carry on in perpetuity without at least making a concerted run for the top trophies? No of course not but to suggest he doesn't care about us winning (which many people on here do) simply has no merit.

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I agree he's not under that kind of pressure. Our owners are money men, I don't think they're that bothered if we win titles. I do think Wenger puts himself under pressure to do that though.
But even as money men, finishing top 4 is a generator of a lot of it so I think he's under pressure to deliver that and he always has.
I don't think he's able to push us on any further so I think he should go, but there's still so much guff posted about him on here about how he doesn't care or isn't under any pressure at all or :blah:

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Originally Posted by Kano

But that assumption, like most things on here, isn't based on anything really tangible.

No-one in the club has ever said top four was the minimum, that is just what we as fans have placed as minimal expectation. Finishing mid-table is just an extreme opposing opinion, when in fact finishing 5/6th on a few occassions may well have had no impact on his position in the club.

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It is an assumption, but it's a more rational one than many of the assertions Zim makes.
Even if our board only care about money, top 4 finishes are conducive to keeping that rolling in.
Maybe one season in 5th or 6th wouldn't have seen him face the chop but a couple of seasons in mid-table and my opinion is he'd have gone. Obviously I don't know that as he's always delivered top 4. But he's clearly meeting the board's targets, if he weren't he'd be out of a job, and like any employee at that level is under pressure to do so.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

If you think the stadium has had no impact on our finances, than i think all i can do is suggest you wait and see what Spurs end up spending over the next five-ten seasons, and how many of their current squad they will end up selling to other clubs.
Again not to immunise Wenger from criticism because there are at least two or three seasons where we had a squad good enough to win the title since moving to the Emirates and Wenger botched it.

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Our revenues improved year on year the moment we opened the stadium. If your net income increases, how have you been harmed?. Do check yourself cos its true.

If a new bigger stadium is such a bad thing, why are other clubs rushing to do the same now.#thinkabout it.

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Originally Posted by Letters

And why have we got better players than them...?

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10 seasons of having 10 times the resources they have. But that's not just down to money. You could spend £250mill buying Sanogo, wouldn't win you a title. Or you can spend wisely, as Leicester have obviously done. The gypos have bought as many shitheaps as they have decent players. Utd have blown a fortune on crap. It's not just the money, it's how you use what you have to build the best you can build. This is where Wenger has been caught short and exposed. Doesn't matter how much or how little he has. It's what he lacks as a manager that holds us back. And this is the season that closes the book on him. This is where all his major excuses have been blown apart.

He's had plenty of money to get 11 players in the pitch who could have competed with the chavs or they gypos, who can only put 11 players on the field at any given time themselves. Make it a squad of 22 and he's still had the money to compete. He just won't spend it. Going on about 3rd highest net spends is bullshit. When you have left the team short season after season then you better be spending high to correct those problems. We should have been top net spend given the gaps that have developed. Last summer saw more of his excuses being crushed. Plenty of money - no striker. Plenty of money - Cazorla left as a crucial and irreplaceable component. No cover for Coquelin. 3rd higest net spend is still an underspend. The guy even had the nerve to tell us there was nothing better out there than what we had. He didn't say we had no money, he said the players we had were good enough. Another terrible misjudgement on his part.

The collapse against the gypos at the tail end of last season should have been a massive alert. It revealed the underlying commitment and ambition of this manager and this team. The collapse to tiny Leicester City and our regression compared to the spuds is Wenger building on the failures of the past. Failing to learn the obvious lessons. Persisting with methods and ideas that haven't worked, don't work and will never work.

How anyone can still be making excuses for this guy is amazing. This is supposed to be the top tier of professional sport. There's no time or place for maybe or almost men. He's so beyond his sell-by date he's starting to smell so bad even your Henry Winter types notice. But as we see, we still get the odd journo holding his nose and trotting out the same old crap. Wenger underachieved for every conceivable reason except a reason that is the fault of Wenger himself. Poor old Arsene. So unlucky.