Would you Swap?

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Like I said earlier, form is temporary, trophies are forever.

If your idea of 'consistency' is that you'll boast to your grandkids (and this is hypothetical as you've expressed your view on kids clearly) that Arsenal had some of the best players and best teams continually coming second every year but this was seen as an achievement...then that's fine.

When they grow up, and their friends are pointing out trophies their respective clubs have won, they'll come to the sad realisation that granddad was just full of bullshit, like we all eventually do :)

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Strange analogy, especially one where you'd be happy for us to lose to everyone in the league for the benefit of a second rate trophy

I wouldn’t mind if we were talking about a champions league trophy, despite finishing 5th and 6th.

And the thing you’d tell to your grandkids is that Chelsea were a mediocre club that became a plaything for a Russian billionaire and unlike City couldn’t even build sustained success with their financial doping.


I also wouldn’t want to be taking the proverbial grandkids to watch them get smashed by Brighton at home, and say whats important is we won our first trophy in 17 years even though we probably won’t win another one for just as long.

No I wouldn’t swap seasons. I’d be absolutely livid if we ever had a league campaign like they’ve had. The league represents where a team is at and I reckon if they keep Ange they will continue to struggle because he has proven incapable of demonstrating some consistency at this level. 34 defeats across 2 seasons is pretty grim.

Obviously the Europa League represents huge success for a club like Spurs and I fully understand why they wouldn’t swap seasons with us either and are shamelessly celebrating like the league never happened. There’s levels to this though, we don’t compete in that competition and if we ever did find ourselves in that competition again I’d wager Arteta would be facing the sack. There’s also a reason why United were planning muted celebrations if they won it and that’s because no one would have turned up to a parade for this trophy off the back of an all time disgrace of a PL season. Expectations are completely different.

I’ve been saying this all week, just let them have their moment. Am I envious of their fans celebrations? Sure, just like I am with Liverpool, Newcastle and even Palace. I agree winning trophies are the things you remember most however you remember some more fondly than others. I just can’t fathom having a league season like they’ve had and thinking everything is great because we beat Alkmaar, Frankfurt, Bodo and United.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Well I'd definitely take Spurs over both Palace and Newcastle...as they've got the bigger shinier cup and the CL spot to brag about.

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Is it bigger and shinier? I dunno. It's a European Trophy, but it's been massively devalued by the rise of the Champions League. The FA Cup has too but at least if you win that you have all the clubs in the England leagues playing. Palace had to beat Man City in the final and as poor as the latter's season has been this year, it was still and impressive backs to the wall performance and win. The Europa League - so many clubs now qualify for the CL that the quality is pretty poor in that competition. MO has listed some of the teams they played. It's hardly the cream of Europe is it? History may not remember that, but in there here and now, obviously for a club at that level it's a good win. But any of the CL semi-finalists would have won it easily.

The Carabao Cup I honestly couldn't give a shit about. The FA Cup has been devalued but it's still something I'd like us to win. The Europa League is honestly beneath us and that's why I wouldn't swap if it came with finishing 17th. That implies a complete mess of a club and if they want to mix it with Europe's elite next season they have a lot of work to do.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is it bigger and shinier? I dunno. It's a European Trophy, but it's been massively devalued by the rise of the Champions League. The FA Cup has too but at least if you win that you have all the clubs in the England leagues playing. Palace had to beat Man City in the final and as poor as the latter's season has been this year, it was still and impressive backs to the wall performance and win. The Europa League - so many clubs now qualify for the CL that the quality is pretty poor in that competition. MO has listed some of the teams they played. It's hardly the cream of Europe is it? History may not remember that, but in there here and now, obviously for a club at that level it's a good win. But any of the CL semi-finalists would have won it easily.

The Carabao Cup I honestly couldn't give a shit about. The FA Cup has been devalued but it's still something I'd like us to win. The Europa League is honestly beneath us and that's why I wouldn't swap if it came with finishing 17th. That implies a complete mess of a club and if they want to mix it with Europe's elite next season they have a lot of work to do.

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Fair enough.

All I can say is that I definitely expect us to have a league season just as bad (and maybe worse) than Spurs in our lifetime. If that season occurs and their is a UEFA cup (or whatever it may be called then) that ensures I am back in the summit with the big boys and end up with silverware, I'm pretty sure I will look back at it fondly ....and thats more than I can say for the past three seasons where we've won nothing.

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Fair enough.

All I can say is that I definitely expect us to have a league season just as bad (and maybe worse) than Spurs in our lifetime. If that season occurs and their is a UEFA cup (or whatever it may be called then) that ensures I am back in the summit with the big boys and end up with silverware, I'm pretty sure I will look back at it fondly ....and thats more than I can say for the past three seasons where we've won nothing.

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).

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We finished 5th and 8th and that was bad enough

And you’re right the Europa league was seen as a way back into the champions league rather than a trophy of merit in of itself

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Also, didn't we have a recent season where we were all hoping we'd win this same trophy so we could get back into the CL? And yes Letters, I get your point that there were more big boys in it then ( before you repeat it as some sort of comeback for the 18th time :lol: ).

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Yeah. The club wasn't in a particularly good shape then though. At the time of course we'd have all taken it.
Now...well obviously if you're in a competition then you want to win it. But at the expense of finishing 17th? That implies there's an awful lot of work to do in order to challenge the big boys. Overall I think there's just far too much European football. Too many teams qualify for the CL - that automatically makes the Europa lower quality and thus devalues it. I am partly saying that out of bitterness but it is also true.
But I do think Spurs win maybe adds a bit of pressure on Arteta on the club to deliver a big trophy. We've been close, but we need to get over the line next year.

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Originally Posted by Letters

But I do think Spurs win maybe adds a bit of pressure on Arteta on the club to deliver a big trophy. We've been close, but we need to get over the line next year.

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I really hope this part ends up being true next season.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Would you trade Spurs' season for our?
It's a big nope from me. OK, they landed a trophy. But not all trophies are created equal. It's a second rate trophy for a second rate club. Maybe that's sour grapes but it is also accurate. They won a trophy which Arsenal are too good to compete in - any of the Champions League semi-finalists would have won it easily.
It's like finishing top of the remedial class. Well done and everything, but don't strut around pretending you're top of the school.
Their league season was a car crash. 22 defeats. 38 points in 38 games, they finished as low as it's possible to without actually going down.
So, overall, no thanks. I'm disappointed with 2nd place and the Champions League semi-final, I think we all are. But the fact we're disappointed with that and Spurs fans are doing cartwheels about the Carabao Cup of Europe tells you something about the respective levels of the clubs. Overall we are in a far better position. It's clear where our issues are - we don't have enough firepower. We didn't have anyone get in to double figures in terms of league goals. That's clearly not good enough. Address that in the summer and we'll be up there again next season.

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NO CHANCE!

Some of the office Spuds that I have spoken to are seriously worried about their campaign next season, especailly if Ange stays.

Now that the dust has settled, even they realise that this was a second rate cup and their season could be very difficult next year.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I am sorry, but you are all in denial.

Yes, no one would want to lose and be laughed at as many times as the Spuds have been this season and obviously if they don't perform miracles this summer, things will only get worse for them.

But there are only two trophies better than the trophy they won and the imaginary second place trophy isn't one of them.

By their extremely low standards, this season has been a success and they've got themselves in the CL, that was their sole target all along, get yourself in the CL so we can pay for this shiny stadium.... they did that and ended up with an actual trophy that is better than anything they've won in a generation. This is a fact that will be remembered in the history books. The only English team that has the right to look down on them is Liverpool, as they won something superior.

By our much improved standards, we royally messed things up on the higher up trophies which were at the most attainable they've been (for us) since the days of the Invincibles. TBH little changes that narrative and most of the sporting world agrees.


Sidenote, I still think Levy will pull a fast one and sack Ange BTW.

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I am afraid that it is you in denial my friend. Can you imagine having seen your club lose 20 matches and be embarassed at home by Ipswich, Leicester and Brighton......and humiliated by Liverpool 2-6.

They had this debate on AFTV - which I generally avoid but I saw a clip on FB.
Robbie says he would swap league seasons if we’d won the CL.
But not for the Europa.
I’d probably go along with that.