Against a 19th placed, league 1 side - yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Ok, maybe not 5 or 6 but 3 or 4?
So just because Liverpool and Citeh didn't, then it means we can't either?
We hardly had a shot on goal for 60 mins, I did expect better than that
There’s a difference being hopeful that we can do it and expecting itQuote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
It’s one thing to say “i’m disappointed because i thought we’d go on and get at least 3 or 4” another to say “it’s unacceptable that we didn’t thrash them”
we only had 11 shots which is disappointing but when 5 of those 11 shots are blocked, that’s a sign of coming up against deep defending, and fact is some of best sides in world struggle to break down stubborn defences….so i’m not exactly expecting us to suddenly be able to open up defensive sides. Yes we played a more attacking lineup but the fact is even if we were being coached to play flowing attacking football, it takes time to get that to produce results.
Poor game. I'll preface what I say below by acknowledging that we won, and at this point in the season getting through is the only thing that really matters. Also, this was Port Vale's cup final and their players and fans were up for spoiling our game.
But with a strong line up, to look this disjointed and have just 4 shots on goal is disappointing. To me this is starting to look like a systemic issue. (Sterile) possession seems to be the main focus of Arteta's teams, with actually scoring goals far less of a priority. And it does not seem to matter which players are on the pitch. We got away with it on Sunday and yesterday night with goals from individual pieces of skill, but the approach of keeping things tight/controlled, and hoping that essentially a stroke of luck will give us the goals we need just won't win us anything. We should be siezing games - particularly those against lower league 1 opposition - not playing percentages. Let's face it - aside from our goals last night, we didn't really give PortVale that much to worry about.
I didn't say it's unacceptable that we didn't thrash them, I said I expected us to thrash them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Those are two very different things.
Let's not act like this is a PL side that can defend really well. We didn't move the ball quick enough and spent more time keeping the ball in our own half.
Yes, this sums it up quite nicely and it's exactly what it's been, starting last season. Systemic.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Possession play is completely fine and acceptable - if you have an end product to go with it.
There is no point holding on to the ball for 90 mins, playing for corners and hoping we can walk away with a cheeky 1-0 and job done.
That's why I believe Arteta is being more cowardly than pragmatic.
Premier league teams struggle to break down lower league sides all the time in cup competitions. Add to that, that we are tactically set up to strangle the life out of games, it does take a while to adapt to a new style. There is more route one in our style than last season (running onto long balls etc) but this Wenger era pass and move cut and thrust….i'm sorry but even with who we brought in, in the summer we don’t have the players for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
What i saw was players who were trying to probe constantly looking for a gap in the defence to open up, and yeah i think that’s sub optimum, but when you have a team that’s not going to risk being adventurous beyond its own third (and i don’t blame Vale for a second for doing this) sometimes you aren’t going to score at will.
It’s nothing new, i used to see this kind of shit under both Wenger and Emery.
I'm just making the point that top sides often labour against sides from lower divisions. The lower side always park the bus from the start and hope to nick something on the break. That is always hard to break down. An early goal can open the floodgates but doesn't always. The bigger side are generally playing within themselves a bit too. In brief I don't really care about the performance or the result, in a cup competition you just want to get through. We did. So that's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
Another factor is that players are less inclined to be bold in these fixtures, and i don’t think for a second that the number of injuries we’ve had during matches this season hasn’t got into players heads.
This is not to say that there isn’t both tactical issues as well. But frankly how determined are you going to be to make a tackle to win the ball in a third round league cup tie if some Port Vale midfielder decides to make a name for himself in a 50/50 and leaves you potentially out for months. Not worth it
I want the football standard to improve. But frankly i’m not going to give a shit too much if our football is slow and stale on sunday and we get a scrappy 1-0 win over Newcastle, and nor should anyone else.
The next two home games against Olympiakos and West Ham, that’s where i really want us to be turning up and getting goals
I don't think Arteta is being cowardly, though. It seems to me that he is over-thinking things, and that over coaching may be transmitting to his players. By all accounts he analyses the opposition to the nth degree in the course of preparaing for matches. I think we were set up on Sunday for Pep's traditional way of playing, but Pep undid all of that preparation by doing the opposite. Like I have said before, playing as high up the pitch as we do is risky, not cowardly. It's difficult to create openings against deep lying, and defensively organised teams - and particularly so when it comes to a team of Citeh's quality. The problem is that being pragmatic and focussed on controlling games to minimise the opposition chances comes undone when we do concede a goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
A change of mindset is needed. The focus has to be more on how we can hurt the opposition, not simply keep the ball off them. Guardiola has set a blueprint for how you nullify Arsenal's threat. It is also an acknowledgment of how our team is probably now better than his. I'd say that there are now no teams who will try to come out and try to play/match us. Everyone we play is going to sit deep and try to be organised against us. We have struggled with mid/low blocks for a while now, and the kicker is that for all our defensive ability and control of games, we are still vulnerable to that unpredictable piece of skill, or a moment where a mistake is exploited. Arteta can never prevent these moments, so his general approach needs to concede that this will happen, and trust his team to deal with what might be increased risks of trying to progress the ball quicker into the opposition's third.
IMO, last night was most disappointing because it seemed to show that Arteta adopted the same old tactical/possession approach against a far inferior team to Citeh. This game did not need this approach - the quality of our players was sufficient to deal with Port Vale while attacking more freely. It's not about the number of goals that we scored/could have scored for me - it's the lack of freedom/fluidity that was on display from us. Plus the fact that the way we played did not suggest that our players had a great deal of self belief. Giving too much respect to the opposition in the way you execute a game plan is not the swagger of potential champions.
Yes, ironically trying to keep it tight against Newcastle away is not something that I would castigate Arteta for as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn