Will We Finish Top 4

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

You say closest rivals and then include Utd, Bayern and City in there? Make up your mind. Our closest rivals are Spurs, Everton, Fulham etc.

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That was a reference to the post before the one you refer to. The post you're reading goes on to discuss our (non) performance in key matches. There's no ambiguity.

It's in our hands now which it wasn't before today's games.

Not sure if that's an advantage or not

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Originally Posted by IBK

Some good points made in your various posts, mate. I think we'll sneak 4th - but even ignoring the other issues, sneaking 4th every year (and we have habitually 'sneaked it' for years) is a sad indictment on a club that has clearly, clearly lost its way. It feels humiliating, whatever we say about the money available to the competition. The EPL sucks this year - yet Manure - with a proper winners attitude has smashed it open, while we filed what I agree is the poorest team ever under Wenger. We used to expect to win. Now our hearts are in our mouths against Norwich, Fulham.

Spurs lack consistency, but what worries me is that they have a bold, hungry manager who is capable of changing games when needed. This is why it feels like they are on the up. We feel like we are floundering - and the sad thing is that it feels more basic than simply buying better players.

We are not shite, relative to the performances around us - but given that Chelsea are suffering from managerial changes; Citeh have yet to build a team that isn't just mercenary and AVB is only in his second full season - our club needs to take a long look at itself.

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They must sit down at the start of a season and plan things entirely around the finances with football as the secondary concern. When you look at it from a financial perspective we've been very successful and that success is growing year on year. But we don't look at that, one way or another we pay money (contribute to those finances) to watch what's happening on the pitch (the secondary concern of the club). And we don't see success, that's for sure. The message from the club is to be patient forever because eventually there will be so much money the millionaires will finally be able to let a few quid drop from their table. Really, that's the foundation of their message when you boil it all down. Once they get their share (which is just about the whole pie) then we'll get our crumbs and if the next guy in gets a big pay off too and things continue to grow then, who knows, those crumbs may turn into morsels.

As you say, in the meantime we just have to hope the likes of Chelsea and City keep shooting their own feet off so the gap remains at least respectable. Utd are out of sight. Not because of money but because they are a well run club that places football as the number one priority, though let's not entirely forget some of their dubious commercial practices. Nevertheless you can see that in the way they work so hard to knit together a bunch of players that (like for like) really aren't that much better than what we have here. Not 20 points better anyway. And they have a manager who measures winning and losing by what happens on the pitch rather than on the balance sheet.

Our club (like others) got infiltrated by business sharks but our ex-shareholders' had their heads turned from the main purpose of the game. The stadium plan was hijacked and the team left to rot. They know the fans will keep coming back because the inertia in sport is probably greater than in any other industry. These are clever and ruthless bastards. They won't be spending £70mill in the summer either. Surely nobody is buying that bullshit? The £70mill is the carrot to get those season ticket sales rolling in. Every year we think the same, don't we? Surely, surely they can't pull this stunt again? But they do and they'll do it again.

The fans have to hold their nerve though. People clamouring for a Russian gangster to take over just so we can become another Chelsea drenched in blood money ought to think again. There's a middle ground rather than the two extremes you see when comparing Arsenal and Chelsea. Besides, here we are, a team starved of cash competing to the last few games of the season with a team that has blown billions trying to buy prizes. That's because the chavs aren't about football either, not since Mourinho left. Mourinho and Ferguson. It's all about the football and all about winning with them and the rewards keep tumbling in. Wenger? For him it has become pure business management and he does it really well. To the detriment of our football club but the delight of the board as they have said many times.

No, it won't be changing any time soon and I could even live with it if they would only put a bit more effort into producing entertaining football. Or football that doesn't plod at 2mph. But they won't even make that small concession.

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Originally Posted by Cripps

It's in our hands now which it wasn't before today's games.

Not sure if that's an advantage or not

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It's in our hands provided we beat Utd next week. So it's in our hands in much the same way as having your hand run over by a car.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

They must sit down at the start of a season and plan things entirely around the finances with football as the secondary concern. When you look at it from a financial perspective we've been very successful and that success is growing year on year. But we don't look at that, one way or another we pay money (contribute to those finances) to watch what's happening on the pitch (the secondary concern of the club). And we don't see success, that's for sure. The message from the club is to be patient forever because eventually there will be so much money the millionaires will finally be able to let a few quid drop from their table. Really, that's the foundation of their message when you boil it all down. Once they get their share (which is just about the whole pie) then we'll get our crumbs and if the next guy in gets a big pay off too and things continue to grow then, who knows, those crumbs may turn into morsels.

As you say, in the meantime we just have to hope the likes of Chelsea and City keep shooting their own feet off so the gap remains at least respectable. Utd are out of sight. Not because of money but because they are a well run club that places football as the number one priority, though let's not entirely forget some of their dubious commercial practices. Nevertheless you can see that in the way they work so hard to knit together a bunch of players that (like for like) really aren't that much better than what we have here. Not 20 points better anyway. And they have a manager who measures winning and losing by what happens on the pitch rather than on the balance sheet.

Our club (like others) got infiltrated by business sharks but our ex-shareholders' had their heads turned from the main purpose of the game. The stadium plan was hijacked and the team left to rot. They know the fans will keep coming back because the inertia in sport is probably greater than in any other industry. These are clever and ruthless bastards. They won't be spending £70mill in the summer either. Surely nobody is buying that bullshit? The £70mill is the carrot to get those season ticket sales rolling in. Every year we think the same, don't we? Surely, surely they can't pull this stunt again? But they do and they'll do it again.

The fans have to hold their nerve though. People clamouring for a Russian gangster to take over just so we can become another Chelsea drenched in blood money ought to think again. There's a middle ground rather than the two extremes you see when comparing Arsenal and Chelsea. Besides, here we are, a team starved of cash competing to the last few games of the season with a team that has blown billions trying to buy prizes. That's because the chavs aren't about football either, not since Mourinho left. Mourinho and Ferguson. It's all about the football and all about winning with them and the rewards keep tumbling in. Wenger? For him it has become pure business management and he does it really well. To the detriment of our football club but the delight of the board as they have said many times.

No, it won't be changing any time soon and I could even live with it if they would only put a bit more effort into producing entertaining football. Or football that doesn't plod at 2mph. But they won't even make that small concession.

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Because central to the club's policy is Wenger. And because we have a manager who seems happy to play the business percentages, he will deliver for the board but never for the fans. And I am afraid that despite my massive efforts to remain objective about my club, while we have Wenger we will have this inertia.

Pretty much.

We might as well accept being in 5th place from today cos we are losing that.

Can't see Swansea or Wigan doing much v Chelsea and Tottenham.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Because central to the club's policy is Wenger. And because we have a manager who seems happy to play the business percentages, he will deliver for the board but never for the fans. And I am afraid that despite my massive efforts to remain objective about my club, while we have Wenger we will have this inertia.

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That's also my opinion. He's ethos on how a club should be run and fiancially responsible is what's keeping this cycle in motion. Without Wenger this strategy just wouldn't work. The danger we have now is that the philosophy of the club has been so deeply woven that once Wenger is gone the Board will continue on with this strategy and go for a 'yes man' manager. If they go high profile, then there is a chane of things really changing from the core on outwards. But if they adopt a Moyes type manager then you just know where we're headed. I hope they're not that stupid because Europe is the main draw here.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

They must sit down at the start of a season and plan things entirely around the finances with football as the secondary concern. When you look at it from a financial perspective we've been very successful and that success is growing year on year. But we don't look at that, one way or another we pay money (contribute to those finances) to watch what's happening on the pitch (the secondary concern of the club). And we don't see success, that's for sure. The message from the club is to be patient forever because eventually there will be so much money the millionaires will finally be able to let a few quid drop from their table. Really, that's the foundation of their message when you boil it all down. Once they get their share (which is just about the whole pie) then we'll get our crumbs and if the next guy in gets a big pay off too and things continue to grow then, who knows, those crumbs may turn into morsels.

As you say, in the meantime we just have to hope the likes of Chelsea and City keep shooting their own feet off so the gap remains at least respectable. Utd are out of sight. Not because of money but because they are a well run club that places football as the number one priority, though let's not entirely forget some of their dubious commercial practices. Nevertheless you can see that in the way they work so hard to knit together a bunch of players that (like for like) really aren't that much better than what we have here. Not 20 points better anyway. And they have a manager who measures winning and losing by what happens on the pitch rather than on the balance sheet.

Our club (like others) got infiltrated by business sharks but our ex-shareholders' had their heads turned from the main purpose of the game. The stadium plan was hijacked and the team left to rot. They know the fans will keep coming back because the inertia in sport is probably greater than in any other industry. These are clever and ruthless bastards. They won't be spending £70mill in the summer either. Surely nobody is buying that bullshit? The £70mill is the carrot to get those season ticket sales rolling in. Every year we think the same, don't we? Surely, surely they can't pull this stunt again? But they do and they'll do it again.

The fans have to hold their nerve though. People clamouring for a Russian gangster to take over just so we can become another Chelsea drenched in blood money ought to think again. There's a middle ground rather than the two extremes you see when comparing Arsenal and Chelsea. Besides, here we are, a team starved of cash competing to the last few games of the season with a team that has blown billions trying to buy prizes. That's because the chavs aren't about football either, not since Mourinho left. Mourinho and Ferguson. It's all about the football and all about winning with them and the rewards keep tumbling in. Wenger? For him it has become pure business management and he does it really well. To the detriment of our football club but the delight of the board as they have said many times.

No, it won't be changing any time soon and I could even live with it if they would only put a bit more effort into producing entertaining football. Or football that doesn't plod at 2mph. But they won't even make that small concession.

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:gp:

Excellent post this. The war chest stories have become so formulaic in terms of content and time of year released, its a complete piss take.

Difficult to see how or when we will see any real change though. Wenger is here for another season at least, and under the current regime there are no guarantees a new manager will make much of a difference. One things for sure, I DON'T want to become another City or Chelski. As you say there should be a middle ground, look at the model of Bayern or Dortmund for inspiration.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

It's in our hands provided we beat Utd next week. So it's in our hands in much the same way as having your hand run over by a car.

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GOLD!

We've got to make a thread of some of your posts NQ, where's the classics thread. ;)

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

:gp:

Excellent post this. The war chest stories have become so formulaic in terms of content and time of year released, its a complete piss take.

Difficult to see how or when we will see any real change though. Wenger is here for another season at least, and under the current regime there are no guarantees a new manager will make much of a difference. One things for sure, I DON'T want to become another City or Chelski. As you say there should be a middle ground, look at the model of Bayern or Dortmund for inspiration.

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Yep, I second that. Arsenal must be one of the only clubs in world football that is linked to stars outside of the transfer window. As soon as that window opens we remain static and then risk buy...normally after gutting half of the team.

Also the 70 million isn't being invested very wisely, it's the same every season but what about the interest?

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

Also the 70 million isn't being invested very wisely, it's the same every season but what about the interest?

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Well technically Arsene does spend it all, he tends to renegotiate the players contracts after searching high and low all summer for "star quality" at bargain basement prices.

I still don't get why our wages/contract renegotiations are factored into the transfer kitty...seem a bit strange to me but what do I know.

P.S. Yeah...I get your point re: interest, especially as we are told it's been sitting in the bank since last summer!!!

That £70m has probably earned £200k interest in a year....

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Originally Posted by Grebbo

That £70m has probably earned £200k interest in a year....

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Based on what calculations? :faint:

0.25% rounded up a bit.

Unless you're prepared to lock away the money or put it in a foreign bank then I'd imagine that's what you'd get.

I could of course be completely wrong!

Apparently we have over £70mill invested in government bonds. Crooks funding crooks for a return generated from scalping the taxpayer - that's after being scalped in the first place for the tickets or subscriptions.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's also my opinion. He's ethos on how a club should be run and fiancially responsible is what's keeping this cycle in motion. Without Wenger this strategy just wouldn't work. The danger we have now is that the philosophy of the club has been so deeply woven that once Wenger is gone the Board will continue on with this strategy and go for a 'yes man' manager. If they go high profile, then there is a chane of things really changing from the core on outwards. But if they adopt a Moyes type manager then you just know where we're headed. I hope they're not that stupid because Europe is the main draw here.

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Aye - the club's ethos has definitely changed - and in the same way that I don't trust Wenger to win things even if he buys players, I don't trust the club to develop a proper winning mentality even if Wenger goes.

IMO if we had strived as much as the Spuds in recent years, with our pedigree/resources, we would have won stuff.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Aye - the club's ethos has definitely changed - and in the same way that I don't trust Wenger to win things even if he buys players, I don't trust the club to develop a proper winning mentality even if Wenger goes.

IMO if we had strived as much as the Spuds in recent years, with our pedigree/resources, we would have won stuff.

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Hate to say it, but your point about the Spuds is right. If they get CL footy, they will kick on, spend big, and leave us standing! Who knows how long for?

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Originally Posted by Lord Nelson

Hate to say it, but your point about the Spuds is right. If they get CL footy, they will kick on, spend big, and leave us standing! Who knows how long for?

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They've qualified for the CL before and not done that so it's not a given. They usually cock it up somehow.

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Originally Posted by Lord Nelson

Hate to say it, but your point about the Spuds is right. If they get CL footy, they will kick on, spend big, and leave us standing! Who knows how long for?

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Only if they sell Bale and spend his transfer fee. Otherwise they'll be tight as they've got a new stadium to pay for.

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Originally Posted by Grebbo

0.25% rounded up a bit.

Unless you're prepared to lock away the money or put it in a foreign bank then I'd imagine that's what you'd get.

I could of course be completely wrong!

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Isn't the money locked away anyway?!

It's not like we ever spend any of our cash reserves or whatever they are called. We regularly sell 40million worth of talent and only spend around 20million on replacements. Sure we renegotiate players contracts etc but the money must be somewhere if it does actually exist?!

I dunno.

Arsenal FC only makes a profit from player sales and property deals though. Without these we'd actually make a small loss or break even at best. Mainly beacuse of our massive wage bill and piss poor commercial deals. Not many people realise this or just choose to ignore it.

The new deal with Emirates, potential new kit deal and new TV deal should now mean we have some serious wedge though.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I've posted this poll a few times this season with varying results.
We're on a good run and have somehow barged our way into the top 4...but can we stay there?

Two big games coming up this week. Everton is going to be tough tomorrow, we don't have a good record vs Fulham.
On Sunday Spurs have City where they might drop points, they still have to play away at Chelsea.
We have Utd at home and last day of the season it's Newcastle away which isn't a gimme.

I was going to put a "meh" option in but I don't think you can be ambivalent about this. Whatever you feel about whether we qualify for the CL, finishing top 4 probably means finishing above Spurs. I don't see how any Arsenal fan can be indifferent about that.

I'm saying yes although I'm nervous we'll cock it up.

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Hey Letters,
Can we re-vote after this weekends games?##
IMHO, the dirty Spuds will thrash Wigan and you cannot see Chelscum getting anything else but 3 points from their game.
Obviously we have to play the Mancs, unfortunatly, we seem to lose this fixture these days before the game has even started! :ilt:

I've posted this poll a few times to see how the mood has changed over time. Could do another one next week.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I've posted this poll a few times to see how the mood has changed over time. Could do another one next week.

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:tiphat:

I don't think we will this time. And who, apart from Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke, gives a shit.

It's going to be very close.

Chelsea seem to have the hardest run in for sure. Plus Europa League, plus Rafa, so we really should be getting fourth. I think Spuds might get 3rd.

Game against Manure is a right off but if we win the other games we'll get 4th.

Suarez's goal on Sunday keeps us in the driving seat.

We can now lose to United but know if we collect 6 points against QPR and Wigan, we'll be at least 4th going in to the final day, because of the guarantee that Chelsea and/or Spurs will have dropped points.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Suarez's goal on Sunday keeps us in the driving seat.

We can now lose to United but know if we collect 6 points against QPR and Wigan, we'll be at least 4th going in to the final day, because of the guarantee that Chelsea and/or Spurs will have dropped points.

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So it would be down to us not bottling it on the final day? Seems a bit far fetched we could qualify then.

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Originally Posted by Lord Nelson

Hey Letters,
Can we re-vote after this weekends games?##
IMHO, the dirty Spuds will thrash Wigan and you cannot see Chelscum getting anything else but 3 points from their game.
Obviously we have to play the Mancs, unfortunatly, we seem to lose this fixture these days before the game has even started! :ilt:

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You mean you want to make your prediction after the games?

Really going out on a limb there...

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Originally Posted by Syn

I don't think we will this time. And who, apart from Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke, gives a shit.

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Well, given that it might be the difference between finishing above Spurs and not, most Arsenal fans do.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

You mean you want to make your prediction after the games?

Really going out on a limb there...

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I think you'll find the games this weekend are not the last ones of the season.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think you'll find the games this weekend are not the last ones of the season.

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Neither is your face.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

Neither is your face.

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Off to bed with you! You must be up early for school!

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

You mean you want to make your prediction after the games?

Really going out on a limb there...

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I have already voted No. We will get 5th this year. Will Wenger make 5th place a new trophy?

I think it is reasonable to start a new poll next week.

We could just close this and start a new one following the next round of matches.

As utd have already won the league and were giving them a guard of honour, any chance fergie will do us a favour and let us win?

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Originally Posted by Jeebus

As utd have already won the league and were giving them a guard of honour, any chance fergie will do us a favour and let us win?

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No.

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Originally Posted by IBK

No.

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:sighs:

No one ever throws us a freaking bone, huh? No matter how charitable we've been towards them.

Fergie should give us a guard of honour and kiss our arses. We put the noisy neighbours back to bed for him, he wasn't going to get that job done with Rooney and Welbeck up top. I bet he still chuckles at the thought of us selling our best asset to him. Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe he chuckles, then laughs, the laughs uncontrollably and hits the deck waving his arms and legs in the air. That's what I'd do if I was him. Hilarious stuff. Mental.