The Welbz Thread (official)

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And you think the best way to educate us all is to tell us not to have an opinion on a forum? Won't it be even quieter around here if we follow your expert advice?

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People need to be told to give a player who hasnt kicked a ball for us a chance?

If people are that bloodthirty there are plenty of players who have played games to choose from. No doubt those writing him off will be the same lot who if and but about Ozils 12 months of averageness, who whine about "he needs time!!!".

If Welbeck does well we have a great player on our hands. If he does averagely, he still provides a better option off the bench than Podoski as a Plan B. If he does poorly, Sunderland will buy him for £12.5m. Its a no brainer transfer.

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Originally Posted by Özim

That's all true, the only thing that bothers me is that now our search for a striker is over, so there's no chance of seeing someone decent up front for the foreseeable future.

Let's be honest, if Man U thought Wellbeck was any good they wouldn't have sold him to us as it would have made no sense.

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Not necessarily true. They've splashed a fortune trying to buy their way back into the big time, trying to get instant results. It means there's no room for developing players to come through. Sounds to me like they gave the option to Welbeck and Cleverley to stay and fight for a place. After all that cash outlay Utd are unlikely to leave the likes of Rooney and Falcao on the bench. So no place for Welbeck doesn't automatically imply he's no good. In fact even if he was just as good it would still be difficult to justify leaving out players earning £300K a week. Apparently they had to pay Falcao a premium because they can't offer him CL. He's on as much as Rooney. That's over £30mill a year on wages for those two alone. In fact it's complete insanity. I doubt Sturridge or Aguero would make that team now - the financials wouldn't allow it. If RvM has got this wrong it's going to be a bloodbath. He'd better win something.

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Originally Posted by BOBN

People need to be told to give a player who hasnt kicked a ball for us a chance?

If people are that bloodthirty there are plenty of players who have played games to choose from. No doubt those writing him off will be the same lot who if and but about Ozils 12 months of averageness, who whine about "he needs time!!!".

If Welbeck does well we have a great player on our hands. If he does averagely, he still provides a better option off the bench than Podoski as a Plan B. If he does poorly, Sunderland will buy him for £12.5m. Its a no brainer transfer.

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People don't need to be told though, do they? They need to be able to have their own opinion just like you have yours and then everyone can agree to disagree if need be. This isn't an exam with a score at the end, it's an opinions forum.

Give people a few days to get over signing a player from a major rival that we have a long history with. If the player does the business on the pitch then it won't take long for everyone to come around.

The day after, yes you're right, it's starting to look better. Sanogo out, anyone in is a plus. Falcao or Welbeck? When you think it all through long term, the latter. Five year contract instead of a player wanting away to Madrid, half the costs, the player is younger, helps us with quotas etc, could thrive now he's out from the shadow of big money primadonnas and will have a bigger role here. Could be a scary combination with Walcott. Lots of coulds and maybes, we'll have to wait and see. But we are a big step forward from the Sanogo situation this morning so that's a crucial plus.

We all want the same thing in the end.

the greatest pleasure i have taken in football is watching Welbeck play for England, watching him make a pigs ear of every chance he ever gets, his rotten first touch breaking down promising attacks etc and thinking ha this cretin plays for Man United....i feel like someone has died today.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We all want the same thing in the end.

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Welbeck to spontaneously combust?...maybe the collective willpower of hundreds of thousands of supporters might be enough to make it happen.

Just ordered my Welbeck shirt.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwh1ZfzCcAEBYQl.jpg:large

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Not necessarily true. They've splashed a fortune trying to buy their way back into the big time, trying to get instant results. It means there's no room for developing players to come through. Sounds to me like they gave the option to Welbeck and Cleverley to stay and fight for a place. After all that cash outlay Utd are unlikely to leave the likes of Rooney and Falcao on the bench. So no place for Welbeck doesn't automatically imply he's no good. In fact even if he was just as good it would still be difficult to justify leaving out players earning £300K a week. Apparently they had to pay Falcao a premium because they can't offer him CL. He's on as much as Rooney. That's over £30mill a year on wages for those two alone. In fact it's complete insanity. I doubt Sturridge or Aguero would make that team now - the financials wouldn't allow it. If RvM has got this wrong it's going to be a bloodbath. He'd better win something.

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I was really talking about the fact they sold him to us, if they thought he was that good they wouldn't have, they'd have found another buyer, Man U don't sell their better players to rivals.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Remy wanted £5mill a year, about £100K - again of course, according to the media. A lot for a player who has yet to do anything significant. The fact he's gone to sit on the chav bench says a lot about his priorities.

Welbeck didn't want a loan deal, wants a starting position, CL footie and £115K - according to the media. Sounds ambitious. Then again, Theo demanded a starting position and £100K and many, including myself, viewed that as greedy considering (like Welbeck) he hasn't hit the anticipated heights yet. All very difficult to judge these silly wages for players that have paper thin differences between them.

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I only saw reports of £80k a week and you can't begrudge him that. If the club thinks a player is good enough to start, you can't pay him less than the rest of our starters. It's a fair asking wage. Arteta came to us on £75kpw, Pod is earning £100kpw. Welbeck is coming in at the top end so it's quite surprising if we actually scoffed at Remy's wage demands.

Also, you need to put things into perspective. If you believe in yourself and your talent, you wouldn't sell yourself short and settle for being a big fish in a small pond. That shows a serious lack of confidence and no club should want such a player. It's hard to begrudge a player for wanting a move from QPR to Chelsea.

But what's done is done. I think this was another panic buy.

The same people underrating and slating Welbeck are pretty much the same who said Theo was shit or still believe we can compete for the like of Falcao or Cavani in a typical bidding war.

United have just given £275k per week to someone who's had 3 ACL injuries. Let that sink in for a minute...

If Fergie were in charge, Welbeck would have never gone to us, but I'm not yet convinced LVG knows what he's doing yet.

:coffee:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwhuCwbCYAA2QYb.jpg:large


GHELs :bow:

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

People don't need to be told though, do they? They need to be able to have their own opinion just like you have yours and then everyone can agree to disagree if need be. This isn't an exam with a score at the end, it's an opinions forum.

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No, never. People will never be able to write off an 8-figure signing made by an experienced manager like Wenger without having their thoughts and feelings trampled on.

Its thick, end of.

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Originally Posted by BOBN

No, never. People will never be able to write off an 8-figure signing made by an experienced manager like Wenger without having their thoughts and feelings trampled on.

Its thick, end of.

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Trample away, but telling people they don't have a right to an opinion is an entirely different thing.

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Originally Posted by AKBapologist

The same people underrating and slating Welbeck are pretty much the same who said Theo was shit or still believe we can compete for the like of Falcao or Cavani in a typical bidding war.

United have just given £275k per week to someone who's had 3 ACL injuries. Let that sink in for a minute...

If Fergie were in charge, Welbeck would have never gone to us, but I'm not yet convinced LVG knows what he's doing yet.

:coffee:

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Fergie wouldn’t have sold him to a us but may have sold him to one of his coaching buddies like he’s done in the past. From what I’ve seen of Welbeck, he’s nothing special and I don’t think he’d have been a Man Utd great even if Fergie was there. That’s not to say we can’t get more out of him. He has the work rate and he has the pace, so he should be fine coming for the ball deep to link up play and also getting beyond defenders. It’s the striking he’ll need to work on but that’s an area Wenger is really good on fixing.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Trample away, but telling people they don't have a right to an opinion is an entirely different thing.

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Ok they can have an opinion but its an utterly worthless opinion.

But I will retract that statement if those who say weve wasted 16m can demonstrate why they dare to believe they are in a better position to judge a player than Wenger and his staff.

I dont mind people saying they dont believe he'll do too well, or theyre underwhelmed. But "16m wasted" before hes kicked a ball? Cretinous tbh.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Fergie wouldn’t have sold him to a us but may have sold him to one of his coaching buddies like he’s done in the past. From what I’ve seen of Welbeck, he’s nothing special and I don’t think he’d have been a Man Utd great even if Fergie was there. That’s not to say we can’t get more out of him. He has the work rate and he has the pace, so he should be fine coming for the ball deep to link up play and also getting beyond defenders. It’s the striking he’ll need to work on but that’s an area Wenger is really good on fixing.

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I think he has the potential to, in the next few months, offer us something we haven't had in a while. When players like Ian Wright didn't even play in the PL until 26-27, I think it's crazy to right off players who have been played out of position and still provided at top clubs at the age of 23!

I'm actually excited about this signing, as he's a lot of what we don't have, he's british, we got one over spurs by signing him and united fans and former united employees are distraught that he's left. Combine that with the fact that if he crashes and burns we can flog him to Fulham for pretty much the same price we bought him for. Win win win win...

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

And it keeps Sanogo one step further from a starting position. Unless Wenger decides to play Welbeck wide and leave Sanogo in the middle. I'll piss myself laughing if that happens and then call an ambulance for Arsene.

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:lol:

I wouldn't put it past Arsene! :o

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Originally Posted by AKBapologist

I think he has the potential to, in the next few months, offer us something we haven't had in a while. When players like Ian Wright didn't even play in the PL until 26-27, I think it's crazy to right off players who have been played out of position and still provided at top clubs at the age of 23!

I'm actually excited about this signing, as he's a lot of what we don't have, he's british, we got one over spurs by signing him and united fans and former united employees are distraught that he's left. Combine that with the fact that if he crashes and burns we can flog him to Fulham for pretty much the same price we bought him for. Win win win win...

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Yes, I think he has the potential to offer us something different to what Giroud and Sanogo and he damn well should.

Would never have been my first choice and I think we’ll still struggle in tight games if his control and finishing aren’t up to par. But he has the work rate and pace so he’ll get chances and create chances for others.

Number 23.

Welbz :bow:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Number 23.

Welbz :bow:

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Shouldn't we have our own GHELish name for him, rather than using theirs?

Welshit

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Originally Posted by LDG

Welshit

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:haha:

Welbeck's goal record does look pretty worrying. He has the technical ability to score some great goals, but the problem for him is that his composure goes out the window when he gets a good chance. I'm not sure that's something you can teach. But it's also not something that you 'either have or you don't', just look at Theo and Ramsey who had similar problems before something just clicked. Even RvP had the same problem where he would miss tons of easy chances, then score a screamer. I'm not expecting any miracles this season on the goalscoring front, but I don't see why he can't get about 20 goals in all competitions if he makes sure he scores the 'easy' chances and one-on-ones. Giroud scored 22 last season and you could make a 10 minute compilation of his misses!

As for his link up play, holding up the ball and bringing other players into play I would rate Welbeck higher than Giroud. Apart from that two or three month spell at the start of last season when Giroud was pulling off those outrageous flicks, that side of his game has been toilet. I think I remember PnG that posting a stat that he only had a ~50% success rate with them which is poor but not surprising. The number of times he ruins opportunities because he hits it behind the player, chooses the wrong option or flicks it first time when there was plenty of space to control the ball or even to turn and run with the ball. Welbeck on the other hand is a bit more intelligent with the ball in those situations and doesn't lose it as cheaply.

Yeah, it was around 50% for us during the season and it was the same for France during a game in the World Cup. One of the journalists picked up on it when France started to fall apart.

So this wasn't some bad dream last night, it actually happened.

Oh god.

The 4th choice striker for a mid table team is the best we can get. And we paid £16m for it.

I'm in just as much disbelief as I was this time last year, only this time for all the wrong reasons.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Shouldn't we have our own GHELish name for him, rather than using theirs?

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The Moss Side Henry...

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Originally Posted by BOBN

Ok they can have an opinion but its an utterly worthless opinion.

But I will retract that statement if those who say weve wasted 16m can demonstrate why they dare to believe they are in a better position to judge a player than Wenger and his staff.

I dont mind people saying they dont believe he'll do too well, or theyre underwhelmed. But "16m wasted" before hes kicked a ball? Cretinous tbh.

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In some peoples opinions, like yours, paying £16 mill for Welbeck is not wasted because; a, he is not shit, otherwise he would never have got near a Man Utd or England shirt & b, because he's certainly no worse than what we currently have up top & could turn out to be a good goal scoring forward. This is an opinion that could turn out to be correct.
However NQ may be basing his opinion on something similar to mine. Welbeck still has to prove himself as a quality CF. Even utd fans who were sad to see him go did mention about his lack of finishing ability. Therefore if we spend £16 mill on a player that may not give us anything better than Giroud, Welbeck may well be a squad player when Giroud is fit. If this is the case & because of the Welbeck spend we couldn't afford to bring in a DM that guarantees better quality in the starting line up then it could be viewed that this money would have been better spent elsewhere. If you spend money that could have been put to better use it is often viewed as " a waste ".
These days to compete with the Gypos, Chavs, Utd & Liverpool + the top teams in the C.L ( which is what we are being promised by our manager & board ) it is my opinion that,as we cannot afford to spend the silly amounts that these teams do, we have to buy ready made, proven quality that will improve our weakest areas. We can't buy middle of the road players & hope they turn into world beaters, those days are gone - the other teams are all too strong to allow us the time for this to happen.

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but I wonder what those fans made of a 23-year-old Didier Drogba. Having paid £80,000 for him after he scored 5 goals in 21 appearances for Le Mans, I wonder whether they were impressed with his return of 3 goals in 11 games. With 8 goals in 32 appearances as a 23-year-old, 0.25 goals per game, I wonder how many people wrote him off.

Similarly, in the year that Eric Cantona turned 23, what were Marseille fans saying about his 5 goals in 22 appearances? Granted, they probably had more to say about his poor conduct on and off the field, rather than how many times he was sticking the ball in to the back of the net, but his club were happy to palm him off to Bordeux, where he scored 6 goals in five months. Cantona was 27 before he was getting in to double figures every season.

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http://therepublikofmancunia.com/sta...trikers-at-23/


Like BOBN said, too many worthless opinions ITT.

It’s all worthless. We have no idea what Welbeck will be like in our set up. We just have to wait and see. Will Wenger polish him up and turn him into a beast? Who knows. Time will tell. All the Redcafe comments and Manure fans in moaning – delusional – he was never going to be the second coming at Utd. They haven’t produced a great young player for their first team in years. They all end up getting sold. The good and the bad. Pogba, Rossi, Pique, Richardson, Darren Gibson, Campbell.....it’s a long list.

I wouldn’t write Welbeck off as shit but he’s an unfinished product and the problem I have with this deal is the fact that we have plenty of options in this area. Why spend £16m and £115 on wages when you haven’t given much of a chance to Campbell, Walcott or even Sanchez? We don’t know how these guys will fair up front over a long period but I feel it’s the same for Welbeck. He’s a player that needs just as much work as our internal options. That’s why this deal doesn’t make much sense.

But we will see how things go and hopefully we can turn him into and absolute monster.

I was really down-beat about Welbeck signing last night. But, after seeing his stats today, which are pretty much the same a Giroud, Im fairly happy. Also, the annoyance on Redcafe must mean they think a fair bit of him. From what I gather he really puts himself about, and has good pace. Reckon he will offer more all round game than the quite often stationary Giroud.
But we will see, good luck to him, hope he want to prove something here and does.

I confess, seeing the negative reaction from Man Utd and their belief that we got a "deal" here has given me some improved confidence in this signing. This is despite my immediate disgust when I first heard the rumours yesterday afternoon.

The Mancs seem confident that he'll do a Sturridge however I'm not sure if that's just a cheap analysis based on the fact they have some physical similarities (young, English, pacy, forwards etc etc etc).


Meh ...... anything is better than Sanogo and now that he's our player I'll fully back him. Welcome to the club Danny.

Whatever any of us thought about the possibility of signing him before this, be that positive or negative, he's an Arsenal player now and so we should cheer him when he plays.

Good luck, Danny :scarf:

I'm just happy to see a total different option up front to get me excited and interested in games again. As long as Wenger plays him through the middle, I'm happy. Keep Giroud and Sanogo on the bench.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I wouldn’t write Welbeck off as shit but he’s an unfinished product and the problem I have with this deal is the fact that we have plenty of options in this area. Why spend £16m and £115 on wages when you haven’t given much of a chance to Campbell, Walcott or even Sanchez? We don’t know how these guys will fair up front over a long period but I feel it’s the same for Welbeck. He’s a player that needs just as much work as our internal options. That’s why this deal doesn’t make much sense.

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Wenger wants a tall guy up front who can win headers and hold the ball up well. Welbeck isn't far off Giroud's height and he's good in the air. That's why I feel Walcott and Sanchez will never get a proper shot as a striker for us. Particularly in walcott's case, injury worries will always remain until we get a full season out of him.

I expect the club to work on building Welbeck's strengths just like they did Adebayor and Giroud (and Sanogo, apparently). Wenger wants a strong physical presence upfront. Personally I would've given Walcott a chance, and if Welbeck doesn't impress then maybe be still might.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Wenger wants a tall guy up front who can win headers and hold the ball up well. Welbeck isn't far off Giroud's height and he's good in the air. That's why I feel Walcott and Sanchez will never get a proper shot as a striker for us. Particularly in walcott's case, injury worries will always remain until we get a full season out of him.

I expect the club to work on building Welbeck's strengths just like they did Adebayor and Giroud (and Sanogo, apparently). Wenger wants a strong physical presence upfront. Personally I would've given Walcott a chance, and if Welbeck doesn't impress then maybe be still might.

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Yes, I've noticed the trend with the strikers. Welbeck is a tall lad and may be able to hold up the ball better and at least he's quick. I still feel Sanchez should have been given more games up front and feel it's more of a positional and movement problem rather than being physically able to hold up the ball. He's a battler with a great control. But is it worth turning a player like Sanchez into a striker because we're weak in that area?

Also, I have a feeling Theo will be on his way out of the club soon. He's out of contract soon. Will have a year left by the end of this season. I think Sanchez is his replacement. Also, Theo has to feel some sort of way about Wenger bringing in Welbeck whose less prolific but was in similar position at Manure. A striker playing out wide that wants a chance up front. Welbeck getting a chance before him may sting a little.

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Also, I have a feeling Theo will be on his way out of the club soon.

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Funny, I was thinking that too. But then again, if he can find his feet quickly and we can get that front line firing and Wenger can get a bit more adventurous with his formation then there's a place for him. I'm also wondering if the FA and Wenger have something cooking. There has been a concerted effort of late to bring British (particularly English) players in and keep them at the club. It reminds me of Utd a couple of decades back. Is Arsene laying the ground for his next job once his contract here is up? Just a feeling I get.

Injured training with England today :haha:

Trying to endear himself to the fans by learning the Arsenal way. Bless him.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

the greatest pleasure i have taken in football is watching Welbeck play for England, watching him make a pigs ear of every chance he ever gets, his rotten first touch breaking down promising attacks etc and thinking ha this cretin plays for Man United....i feel like someone has died today.

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People die every day. :coffee:

Where would Theo go?

City would buy him for sure. Although not upfront.