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It's not just the big games, we have been woeful in every game so far this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Wenger needs to swallow his pride and scrap this new formation, it's a mess. He needs to get the team to go back to basics. No more square pegs in round holes.
You know it's bad when even Ollie has given up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Optimism clique RIP :rose:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Not against City.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Heard we were pretty good vs Besiktas (sp) at home too but I didn't see that one.
i agree we were good against city, very good going forward and probably should have won. however, like all big games recently, i just couldn't see us holding on to that win. The equaliser was just typical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I think last year we'd have held on. There's something going very wrong this year. The City performance was a good one and gave me home but last night it was back to the crap we've seen in other games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
We looked massively out of our depth.
Wengers excuse of why Dortmunds energy levels were much than our woeful over paid priks. "They had an easier game at the weekend" Thats your pathetic reason of why we were over ran all over the park. Our defence never got a breather and were camped on our 18 yard line. It's a disaster and it will get much worse in the coming weeks.
Jose took 20 minutes to solve the Cesc issue, you might never see him in the '2' again except for against the lowliest of sides. Wenger took 3 years to solve that one only after we we're struggling to get back into 4th and getting destroyed by the likes of Hull at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Jose needed a DM, he got him.
A striker, got three.
Hazard is lightyears ahead of Ozil in terms of talent let alone actual play at a fraction of the price.
Other managers see issues and address them. To not buy a central defender and CM....thats it. The end. Hes done.
:d - but Letters is still hanging on to the "Wonders of Wenger" - Is Letters Gazidis?Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Letters :lol:
Lost cause.
Yep, that's exactly what I've said :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Most managers are flexible and can adjust tactics on the fly. Cesc will most likely play in as CM again for Jose but may also play as the number 10. You adjust depending on the opponent and especially if you have a player like Cesc that can play deep or further up. The problem with Wenger is that he needs to see something fail 50 times before adjusting his tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBN
That’s the only thing left. This is a brand new squad and the have the same hallmark traits as Wenger’s other teams that failed. He’s spent money and it’s still the same problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
Just remember the old saying - there's no river in Egypt called de nile!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The worst thing is that he plays the same XI every week unless he's forced into a change and then wonders why we look so lethargic.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1_nilto the arsenal
We've got a lot of attacking depth up front - he needs to rotate and use it.
Wenger is going nowhere for 3 years. Let's just accept that.
So what realistic possibilities are there, if any, to try and take advantage of the fact we have the likes of Ozil, Alexis, Ramsey, Ox, Cazorla, etc in the team. Last night if you'd have swapped the managers Klopp would have used our resources to give Dortmund a good hiding. We have better players than them, but we don't have a better team. Could we do something like try to provoke Wenger every game so he reacts and gets sent to the stands? Could we kidnap him on Saturday mornings? Move the stadium and not tell him where it is? Hold up big signs during the match begging him not to do the things we want him to do, so he does them? Get our own substitution board and whistle so we can make changes during the match? Hire our really crappy cousins to pose as young French or African footballers and send Wenger on endless scouting trips to watch them?
There must be something that can be done?
The players we have are set up for a pacey game, the painfully slow style we have just makes them look really ordinary, alas Wenger is still obsessed with creating a mini Barcelona, this time one that can't even pass that well.
The way we stood off Dortmund yesterday is the same way we stood off Man City over the weekend. We were exposed yesterday because we faced a team that pressed higher up the pitch and have a mean passing game. That's the difference. We haven't been playing well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We bossed the City game till they scored, that did take the wind out of our sails.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Last night we were getting hammered from the get go.
There's no comparison in terms of the performance.
We cannot compete consistently at the top level with the players we have. Mourinho would have struggled last night with the players we have, ofcourse he may have attempted to change things tactically which he can do, Wenger can't, but if you have a slow dinosaur at the back & a non existant annoying little Spaniard protecting the back 4 along with a non winger/non moving German who thinks he's too good for us, a welshmen who's forgotten he was good last year & a striker who is a known non-finisher then you're in trouble.
To still have players in the starting 11 like Arteta, Merts & Gibbs & with back up like Flamini, Monreal & Sonogo in important positions, we are not going to compete & we are showing no ambition to do so.
This ofcourse is all down to Wenger. The FA cup win whilst getting the monkey off our back has actually derailed any quick future progress as we have shot ourselves in the foot with his 3 year contract. That contract should have been given to him on the basis that we show ambition to compete by strengthening the squad where needed WITHOUT FAIL. If Wenger accepted this but said "it will cost you" then its up to the board to back him.
To not have decent defensive cover, to not have a quality defensive midfielder, to only buy a striker on the last day of the window by "luck" - in Wengers own words, when we have needed one for 3 years is nothing short of negligence by Wenger & others have lost their jobs for far less.
What I would give for a board member to have the bollocks to tell him a few home truths. I firmly believe he wasn't going to buy a striker on the last day, the press put him under pressure to do the obvious all of that week - now the press are asking about our need for a defensive midfielder. It should embarras him that he isn't acting on areas of weakness that CANNOT be argued by anyone & that members of the press can attack him on this. He's attacked for not having a striker in the team, he responds that he has quality strikers in Podolski, Samchez, Walcott, Campbell & doesn't need anymore - he buys Welbeck. Yesterday he is asked why he wont buy a proper defensive midfeilder, he responds " If I find one better than the one Ive got then I'll buy one" - really Arsene, no one better than Arteta in DM in world football, there are plenty but you won't pay for whats required.
If these performances continue & they will, if our board have any ambition at all they must give him NO option but to strengthen in the Jan window. It will give us a better chance to finish 4th & maybe have another cup run, but above all to start to compete against the big teams.
I'm afraid the guy is an danger of becoming a real hindrance to AFC & the people around him shouldn't allow that to happen - we do have a lot to be grateful for & thats how he should be remembered.
I stand corrected, we were decent in mini spells against City, but overall our performance was nothing to shout about. Besiktas was similar to the City game from what I remember and we were hanging on for dear life at the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I suppose my point is that Wenger needs to make changes now, this new formation isn't working IMO and he should just abandon it asap.
We got 83 points in 07/08. Its not about the points in 07/08 or last year, because a club charging the highest ticket prices in world football should be challenging for the title till the end (at least once in two seasons).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We also got 4th place (could be 3rd place) trophy comfortably the season before last. So we regress and progress in getting 4th place trophy. Where is the progress?
The ONLY sign of progress footballistically was winning the FA Cup trophy and nothing else. Our football is dire as ever, our tactics are dire as ever, our manager does not address the crucial areas. No progress in my mind.
That’s perception. Each team plays differently and we haven’t gone from 100 to zero in the space of one game. In spells where City attacked, we stood off them in the same way we did against Dortmund. City were set up to counter in the first half. They weren’t as aggressive with the way they pressed compared to Dortmund. We looked okay when we had a chance to attack Dortmund but for the majority of the game they shut us down in our own half. City weren’t set up to press like that but haven’t changed our defensive style at all. We switch off and give our opponents way too much space. That didn’t just develop overnight. Did you see Neville’s analysis on Monday Night Footballn when City had a few chances towards the end of the game? It was almost the same as what we saw yesterday. Wave after wave of attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I’ve said this before, but you don’t notice the details until we’re hit with a loss. These sort of results don’t just come out of nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
In a world where tactics are vital we just turn up and 'play our game'.
Suicidal.
I take a handful of non-descript French-Africans over our non-existent midfield right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Any incarnation of a "new Vieira" would be harder to bypass than Arteta and co.
Arguably, but that's a slightly different argument. One I'm not sure I agree with given the financial doping going on, but with the money we have we should be closer, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
The only sensible measure of progress though is where you are from one season to the next. Are we heading in the right direction? Last season it looked like we were.
[QUOTE=fakeyank;422084]We also got 4th place (could be 3rd place) trophy comfortably the season before last. So we regress and progress in getting 4th place trophy. Where is the progress?[QUOTE=fakeyank;422084]
No we didn't, the season before last we got it by a point on the last day and had Newcastle equalised, we wouldn't have done. Happily the information was incorrect.
Last year we were 7 points clear of 5th place, got more points than any season since 07/08 and won the FA Cup thus getting that monkey off our back and showing that this lot can finish the job.
And at the start of the transfer window the mood on here was quite upbeat, we seemed to be signing some good players for a change. And yet...now it's all going horribly wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that last season showed some promise and the initial transfer business was encouraging.
Yet here we are. Getting regularly murdered by we are supposed to be competing for honours with.
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by ARightTouch
Bloody right they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Luckily, the scoreline was respectable, and very flattering on us last night.
That could easily have been 5 or 6 again. All that shows is that we're still no closer to being able to compete with the better teams than last year.
I'd go so far as to say, we're so open, that getting hit for five is the norm with the better sides.
Fuck it, we're even struggling against teams (with the greatest respect to them) who we should be beating. Leicester being a case in point. Last minute goal aside, we would have drawn v Palace. Everton played us off the park.
We haven't played well for months. even with glimpses of fluidity up top against City, we were still more open than Tescos at the back. The FA Cup was great, but in all honesty we threw ourselves over the line. We were playing really badly from January onwards, and only scraped fourth again, having been clear at the top.
No cohesion. No tactics. No balance. No defence.
Lessons never learned.
there are times when we are tactically astute against the bigger teams, but it's more few and far between.
Both home games against Liverpool last season, the away game at Dortmund last season, arguably the tie against Bayern Munich we actually played well and executed a decent game plan but we managed to get ourselves down to ten men.....
I think it evidences for me that Wenger is more of a lazy manager than a tactically clueless one, he transposes the side he puts out against city and thinks it's good enough to play away in Dortmund....
There's a group of knobheads on here that don't show their face much when we lose but always come on here and brag like a bunch of wankers when their beloved Arsene gets a win.
You know who you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
And Vice-Versa
Lol normally in these threads there a few posts defending Arsene. None this time!Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Large part of me feels Arsene Wenger should have gone after he won the FA cup, the club was in a pretty good place both in terms of squad and financially.....but the clear fact remains that the club had nothing by way of ideas of who to replace him with, there is no point getting rid of Wenger unless you have any guarantee of someone better coming in.
Would Klopp have been better?....probably but frankly at the moment why would he come to us?....when he had the likes of Barcelona in for him.
It was definitely a mistake giving him a three year contract because that says, ok Arsene we are completley happy with everything you have done at the club, a rolling contract would have been a better idea. But the appointment of Shad Forsythe and Andries Jonker by Gazidis shows that the ground is being laid for a coaching set up post Wenger, where no man no longer wields control in the way Wenger seems to feel he has to.
The real gooners don't stand for this shit. Only the warped, thick ones do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ARightTouch
Why would Klopp come to Arsenal?
One look at Wenger's salary and the size of our transfer budget ought to provide a couple of answers.
But when he's arguably the most sought after Manager in Europe, he could command an even bigger transfer kitty and salary at a much more prestigious club
Exactly. I have no idea why people talk as if the new manager is taking over West Ham.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
We pay well, generate our own income, have a good youth system, great facilities, a promising first team, a brilliant stadium and owners that aren't trigger happy ego maniacs that won't interfere with your work.
What more could you want from a club?