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Flamini and Wellbeck actions were frustrations to referee's attitude . They certainly deserved red cards . But before that we should have had a penalty and Cahill , Oscar and Ivanovic should have been off pitch long ago .Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
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Originally Posted by selassie
I agree Chelsea was the better team . But knowing that conceding the first goal in a big game is a blow, a refereeing mistake which prevent you from coming back to a game is a confidence killer for the players .
Had the referee been a bit fair we could have got at least a draw .
Any referee action can have a big impact on a game .Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Imagine if he didn't give Chelsea their deserved penalty on Hasard and he mistook it for a simulation and gave hasard a yellow card instead . Do you think Chelsea attitude and confidence would have been the same ? I doubt it very much .
Alpha, Maybe we saw different things yesterday but as already pointed out by NQ we were lucky to have 11 men on the field after Kos gave away the penalty, it was actually a red card offence as he was the last man standing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
We only had 1 shot on target all game, I am not sure how the referee's performance defined that but each to their own I suppose.
My frustration stems from the Summer, we didn't do the business we needed to do and it's clearly evident, not only in the big games but also in many other games this season. The money was there, Wenger didn't buy what we needed....AGAIN.
Basically nothing has changed, I see us going into this season with exactly the same flaws but hoping for a different outcome, in fact I would go as far as to say we have more flaws this season as Wenger has changed the formation of the team and to date we look a weaker side than we did last season.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzQp0poCIAAvqes.png
Fuck off Mesut
Before Benny from Crossroads scored their 2nd yesterday, the 3 previous goals conceded were due to total lack of midfield cover in front of the centre backs - 2 resulting in pens with 1 on 1's against our last defender or keeper.
This is down to us not having a defensive midfielder. If Wenger plays Flamini 1 more time it should result in gross misconduct charges. Not buying a proper DM over past few years shows us all we need to know about Wengers tactical ability.
Selassie , my friend , we saw the same things but we express differently .I agree with everything you are saying but before their penalty Cahill should have seen a red card . That would have had a different outcome .Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
In a big game , any little detail counts and can change anything .
Soon after their penalty , Cazorla produced a perfect pass to Wilshere for an equaliser but a heavy touch let him down . Imagine if he could have made something better ....
We are all frustrated but the biggest mistake if refusing to buy a proper DM . We are paying for that . Our attacking players can not do their job properly because we don't have a solid platform of defense .
Just hugging a manager he respects tbf - probably feels like he'd wished he joined Chelsea, like Fabregas. Apart from money, I don't really understand how any top player wanting success would sign for us with Wenger in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Don't disagree. The ref was appalling. But his incompetence was impartial, he was just clueless not biased. Certainly if Cahill had been sent off it would have affected the game. But we shouldn't be relying on a red card to get results, we have the players to compete with anyone 11 vs 11. But we don't have the manager to do that unfortunately. My fear, even if Cahill rightly got his marching orders, is we'd still have lost. The team selection was stupid, the formation was stupid and the tactics were stupid. That was the real problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Fair play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
I think the general consensus is we have a manager that doesn't know how to get the best out of this team and doesn't appear to know how to improve it.
The fact that he hasn't/didn't buy a DM or even an elite striker pretty much tells me all I need to know. I am done with him.
I generally believe things would be a lot better with someone a bit more tactically astute in charge of the current squad.
True we shouldn't be counting on referee 's charity to win a game . We should have been able to compete 11 vs 11 against any team . But sadly we are not at that level anymore .Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Any refereeing mistake against us can be costly .
We are only in the 3rd month of the season and have Wenger for another two more years. Things aren't going to get any better. He isn't going to leave and he wont be sacked unless we finish 7th or something.
We will still finish top 4 as I just cant see Liverpool and United both finishing above us. Although if we lose to Liverpool I might change that opinion.
Everyone knew we'd lose this game, if was predictable, the reason it's predictable is we have a manager who is tactically not good enough and doesn't ever really address problem areas in the team.
The guy just never learns, he never adapts or sets the team up based on the opposition, therefore we always fail to win, it's not coincidence anymore.
As per usual, another one in what seems an unabated string of losses against quality teams. One common denominator in all this.
Glad to see some of his disciples have little bit taken off their blinkers, albeit reluctantly.
Wenger Out!
:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özil's Panoramic View
Considering they were playing Arsenal, I'm sure their confidence would have remained the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
I don't understand the point you are trying to illustrate though, imagine this, imagine that etc. Just seems like an excuse really to avoid holding the manager and team to account.
Indeed. After hammering us last season and considering their record at Stamford Bridge and Jose's record against Arsene, one penalty decision wouldn't have dented their confidence. It was a predictable game. We were lucky to finish with 11 men and the same applies for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
We haven't won any of 15 games against our top rivals. It can't be the referee in every case. I would wager we won't beat either Chelsea, City or even United this season. Only Pool don't always expect to beat us. We start each season 12 points behind those 3. We rely on the Sunderland s of this world to help us beat them to reduce our points deficit.
Wenger Out!
I thought our tactics and organisation where OK yesterday. Problem was a few players just didn't perform, theres did. The first goal really killed the game, after that we where just chasing. Ozil was a disgrace, Welbeck didn't spend enough time in the box and we didn't create a shot on goal. We've been struggling to score for years now, it's only just coming to roost this season.
Well ,every time things don't go your way you need an excuse for that .The referee shouldn't has allowed us an excuse . He should have sent Cahill off and awarded us a penalty on Fabregas handball and saw what would have been our next excuse .Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Had we won the game because of Cahill red card you could still have said it was not a proper win .It is a no win situation really .
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Originally Posted by Letters
:haha: :haha:
Going by the comments here, 9 out of 10 people are of the opinion that Wenger needs to go. So why is there a difference between whats being said here and what the fans at the stadium say? Why is saying "Wenger Out" considered blasphemy at the stadium? Even when we lost 3-1 to Villa last season, the atmosphere was all against the board/Kroenke... very few were against Wenger.
Are people actually enjoying the football we play under Wenger? Is it that people think we will go back to our glory days under Wenger? I really do not understand Arsenal fans... surely it must hurt going into EVERY big game thinking we have a 1% chance to get a result. Paying the highest prices in world football to have only a realistic expectation of 4th is ridiculous!
I cannot see any reasonable argument for sticking with AW! Please do not bother saying "Who else"... thats like saying you wont leave your spouse even though she is cheating, because you are not sure you can find someone who can cook mashed potatoes as good as her!
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
It is pretty much nothing like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
I hate Mourinho, but, I loved the way he left his seat and headed down the tunnel. He fucked Wenger in his French nostril by dismissively leaving at the final whistle.
If Wenger had any bottle he would have got up early and postured towards Mourinho to shake his hand.
Wenger OUT!
But it's close and you get the idea. Fear of the unknown is the reason why some want him to stay even though they know we certainly won't progress under him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It's not fear of the unknown, it's fear of the stupidity of the mob. People screaming Wenger out and abusing the guy are the ones who rightly get punched in the gob when they pipe up. Long may that continue. I don't think I've seen anyone here who wants Wenger to stay forever, I think virtually everyone has suggested he's struggling tactically and we'd be better off in terms of on-field results with a more clued up coach. But there's more to the job than that when it comes to Wenger's role, stuff that has developed over time and beyond the scope you will see in any other club. Wenger needs to be calmly eased out and replaced with the right man and in the right manner. It could have happened last year but who would really begrudge him the chance to use some of the millions he's banked for the club? If that means we have another 2-3 seasons hovering there or thereabouts while the club goes from strength to strength in preparation for the next guy then what's the big deal? It's not complacency or a lack of ambition, it's having an eye on a sustainable future at the top. We're still on course to do that. I doubt anyone believes the glory days will return under Wenger, but his final role might well be to leave the club in the right shape for his successor to come in and build a dynasty - if that's what we want, as opposed to a one-off, Liverpool style challenge.
It is nothing like that, when you go out of a relationship you go back to being single. We have to have a replacement for Wenger, the guy is entrenched in every area of the club rightly or wrongly (wrongly of course) and that's why the person who comes in needs to be someone who we can guarantee is capable of taking us forward or we are changing for changes sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The reason we haven't had the bad atmosphere in the crowds is because more often than not we tend to win games at the Emirates. The last time it turned sour was the home Game against Swansea. People don't pay 45 quid a ticket to boo or chant "Wenger out" because unless the team is being ridiculously outplayed its kind of counter productive.
Logically there is no reason why the board would sack Wenger so whatever we think of him it's wishful thinking
I totally agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Top post.
There are no guarantees that the next guy will take us forward. It's impossible to determine. So what's our next move if the board can't guarantee success after Wenger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Nobody can guarantee success. The point is, is what we are seeing currently under Wenger the definition of success?. Like someone else posted above. It is the mere illusion of competing that makes some wish to keep him, but deep down we all know we are really competing with the Spuds, Everton, a befuddled United and emasculated Liverpool. If that is enough to keep you happy, then hold on to it. Every August we hear how we are going for the top honours, but here now in October we are already out of 3 of them. The same as always, not because we don't have the resources, but we are handicapped by a delusonist at our helm of affairs. You will have to forgive those of us who belive we can do better and are willing to take the risk to find out if we can.
guarantee is capable of taking us forward were my words....which means instead of sacking Wenger and hastily appointing someone else, the club doing their homework and making sure that potential successors are scouted, sounded out etc and that the correct coaching infrastructure is in place around them to take over from Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
No-one is in any doubt about Wenger being able to get a second wind and suddenly take us forward into a new era of winning big trophies, he's yesterday's man in that respect but as NQ abely says in his post we have that stability under Wenger currently where the club will be in good hand's for a better/younger man to push us forward when he steps down. I wish that day would come sooner than 2017, but i don't want it to happen slap bang in the middle of season out of fan petulance either.
If that pun was intended, you're a genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
Thats just cheered me up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Now who said he wanted him sacked right away without a plan in place? We've had this discussion before and nobody is suggesting he goes tomorrow without the board doing their proper research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Thanks, The doomongers want you to believe that Wenger is so Intrinsic to our existence that any sudden sacking would inevitably lead to our disintegration. We let Bruce Rioch go midseason and appointed some nobody who took us to 3rd and won the double the next season. We have a chief executive now and Bould knows the players as well as Wenger. I dare say, we would finish 4thQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Bruce Rioch wasn't sacked mid season, he went at the end of the 1995-96 campaign.....Wenger didnt join until October because he had promised to see out the season with Nagoya Grampus Eight and for the beginning of the 1996-1997 season we had Pat Rice and Stuart Houston caretaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
And actually even then the whole thing was a bit of a headless chicken because it was a battle of wills between Dein who had Wanted Wenger when Graham left and the board who wanted a big name to appease the fans in light of getting rid of Rioch for a perceived lack of ambition.