Literally just found the result out. Good old arse....doing their best to cattle truck my weekend. I see we defended brilliantly again.
Printable View
Literally just found the result out. Good old arse....doing their best to cattle truck my weekend. I see we defended brilliantly again.
That's beyond sticking up for Wenger, he literally was the embodiment of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
I'm not for sacking Wenger mid season (though results like yesterday keep coming and I'm likely to change my opinion on that) but that guy was ridiculous. Every game it seems to happen literally no presence in the middle of the park so the opposition has ridiculous space and then there is literally no attempt to stop crosses or challenge someone aerially in the box.
As soon as we took the lead Oxlade chamberlain should have either been instructed to sit back and protect Chambers or replaced
He is not just not pro active he's so slow to react as well (he deserved a punch in the balls for bringing Sanogo on) and at this moment in time him staying till 2017 would be totally unacceptable
I wish I'd only just found out, blissful ignorance on SundayQuote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Is the result really that upsetting? I'm at the stage where this shit is comical. Seen it far too many times to have a meltdown. Fuck em!
Depends how you differentiate Surprising and Upsetting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Is it surprising? It's only Surprising that we haven't lost more games
Upsetting? Well yes I suppose when you hold onto a lead for ten minutes and you delude yourself that maybe just maybe that the Circus defending won't be punished.
But never mind.....like the last few years we won't beat any of the big clubs but we will ride on the bloated corpses of Liverpool and United into fourth.
Feel the same way, I literally have no motivation to watch Arsenal these days, I actually dread it, it's like doing a job you hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I may even swerve this Saturday's game against United, I have zero confidence in this team and can't be doing with the emotions, would rather invest my time in something else!
Joke of a manager results in thatQuote:
Originally Posted by adzzzbatch
Not surprised in the slightest.
Poor management in summer by not addressing the areas that needed addressing the most has cost us massively this season. Have been crying out for a decent DCM and CB for longer than I care to remember. No point buying Sanchez when we have the likes of Flamini and Arteta at DCM and Monreal at CB. People can point the finger at the players all they like and to a certain extent they have a reasonable amount of responsibility for the implosions. However, the failure to clearly address the weaknesses that could turn us from a decent team into one capable of challenging for honours is bad enough but to actually sell an experienced CB and not to replace him adequately is quite another.
Everyone and their dog can see where we are lacking - why is it that Wenger can not? Why does he continue to play Monreal at CB and not Chambers? At the very least he should have switched Monreal for Chambers and played Monreal at RB. Granted its an unfamiliar position but surely he is going to be more comfortable at FB than at CB even if it isn't on his natural side? Instead he puts chambes up against a lightening quick winger and he got exposed. He also puts Monreal up against one the most powerful strike forces in the country - Gomis and Bony are beasts in terms of raw power! Not only that he hung Chambers and Monreal out to dry by not addressing the clear disadvantages they were up against for the duration of that game. Its not Monreal or Chambers fault - its Wengers.
Cazorla - has been shit all season and still Wenger plays him. Substitutes again made too late to effect the game!
I am not one of the Wenger out brigade but fuk me enough is enough - not another club in the land would put up with this level of mismanagement.
The boys finished, his brain doesnt work. Went bombing on past Welbeck after 2 minutes yesterday for no reason. He doesnt get midfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
And before Niall Quinn starts crying...
Wilshere - Shyt, most overrated "talent" ive ever known at this club
Cazorla - Fat and shyt. So fooking short and useless. Sports are not for him.
Flamini - Worst midfielder under Wengers reign
Arteta - Finished
Ox - Waste of money
Wish we could swap midfields with Southampton tbh. Not because of "PASSION" and all that nonsense, they are simply better players. Defence too while were at it.
You have time to prepare, internationals this Saturday. So we'll just see all our players get smashed to pieces instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
A much deserved and fitting headline for 'The Specialist in Failure'Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Of course. It's worrying that I look forward to England games more than Arsenal games these days!Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
What is there to say that hasn't been said before. This is a man who so infinitely believes in his methods that even when they don't work time and tine again he doesn't waver and continues to repeat ad infinitum. just so that when it perchance works in in 1000 times he can turn round and say "Aha"!. You can see that he simply plays the boys who never raise a word at the club, plays them over and over and again until they break down. Anyone who questions what we can all see isn't working gets ostracised. The man is a delusionist with a less than tentative grasp on reality. Bottom line is Wenger wont get tired. Question is when will we the fans tire of this debacle. Forget the tourists waiting in line to fill the stadium seats, we need the fans groups to come on side and organise to bring this charade to end
The season ticket base is so high that it doesn't take much additional sales to make the stadium look relatively full. And it isn't
While the money keeps rolling in there is no incentive for the board to change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Only way to bring about change is to hit 'em where it hurts. For those with season tickets it's too late for that of course, they've paid up for the season.
And there are so many of those it's difficult to do anything this season.
Just don't renew though. Those without season tickets, stop going. Buy fake orange shirts rather than the real ones (or don't buy one at all).
What charade? You're going to need to be a lot more specific. Fans aren't going to organise behind claims Wenger is a "delusionist". Specifics will be required. You already know he brushes off any questioning of his tactics by stating he's managed a thousand more games than anyone else. He'll slap a guy like Merson around, somebody who has a voice. It's unlikely he'll pay a blind bit of notice to a few fans calling him names. I haven't yet seen a reasoned argument that sets out the major failings that can be pinned on Wenger, on a match by match, formation by formation, tactics by tactics, player by player, substitution by substitution, basis. That's how you pin him down. Specifics. A clear demonstration of errors and repeated errors. A history of the failings in the transfer market - with details. An analysis of where other clubs and managers are succeeding where Wenger has failed. Calling him names, waving banners, shouting and stamping, that's all a waste of effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
NQ. Now you have me confused. Dunno if you're messing with, me or asking a real question? Are you happy with what you are seeing on the pitch or not?.Given our club resources are we doing as best as we can or far, far less?. A charade is what we have. A scam operation with sporting failure marketed as guarded success
A thousand games in charge and the chump gets tactically out done by a guy that’s only managed 31 games. :doh: I can only wish someone had the wit and balls to throw that fact out to him if he tries to pull that smug ‘experience’ card again.Quote:
You already know he brushes off any questioning of his tactics by stating he's managed a thousand more games than anyone else. He'll slap a guy like Merson around, somebody who has a voice.
I think he’d pay attention to fan protest. Also, people need to stop going to games. A drop in attendance, media backlash and fan backlash is way too much for anyone to ignore.
Very serious. The tactics, preparation, in-game management, substitutions, post game analysis, player rotation, fitness and injuries, transfer dealings, are all sub-standard and the manager isn't close to making the most of the players and resources at his disposal. I'm pretty sure we all agree on that much by this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
But take the Merson incident. Merson getting on TV and shouting, "clueless, clueless", isn't going to do a damn thing except put Wenger on the defensive and give him an easy out where he can claim he works day to day with the team, he's got all the experience, he knows what he's doing and nobody else is qualified to judge him. And that's what exactly what happened. Why didn't Merson go into the specifics? Name names, give examples of the "clueless" tactics over time. So far the media has settled on a couple of instances of our midfield pushed up and leaving the defence exposed when we were in a winning position. That's a start. But a couple of instances isn't going to shift Wenger out of his trench. Fans who really want to highlight the problems need to build a proper case, with proper and extensive evidence. Put that in front of him, a case spanning several seasons and highlighting the same mistakes and misjudgements happening time and time again (as is claimed) and that's not so easy to brush aside. If it's true that Wenger is clueless and he's lot the plot tactically then it needs to be spelled out, it's no good just calling him names.
Get that Claude bloke to do it. What's the use of him ranting on on Arsenal TV? Either he wants to be a Z-list celeb or he wants to do something constructive to get his points across and to try to encourage real change. Wenger is here until 2017 as things stand. The board is certainly not going to intervene and make changes. They have stated this as clearly as it is possible to state it. We're good enough to grab 4th every season and maybe go on a cup run. The money is pouring in. One of the big objections about money not being spent in the transfer windows has been addressed. If anything, Wenger is more secure than ever. It's going to take some serious work conducted by serious fans to demonstrate the key problems that most perceive as holding the club back. Boycotts are useless when there's a long queue waiting to snap up tickets. Banners and shouting and all that crap just make us look stupid in the eyes of fans who would love their club to be 4th or on the CL or winning a cup. fans slagging Wenger on the Internet has no effect at all. The media are lazy bastards who will work with the theme of the day but will never dig deep.
If the fans really want to shift Wenger or force his hand then they need to do some work. That's my point. Don't give him an easy out like Merson just did. Lay down a case that the media will seize upon as their own (an easy win for the lazy bastards) and that other fans can get behind and something Wenger can't just brush under the carpet. That's the only way you'll see him walk before 2017.
I think the point is that these street protests tend not to achieve anything because you can be easily dismissed as ungrateful malcontentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
The fact remains there isn't a unified voice, almost everyone on this board thinks Wenger isn't the man to take us forward and the majority of those want him sacked. I'm not convinced this represents the majority of those who go to games week in week out, for example we are not seeing the kind of visceral reaction that Newcastle fans showed against Pardew.
I don't believe the board can be convinced by the fans to sack Wenger, though I do believe it could convince Wenger to walk. He was taken aback by the fan reaction to Aston Villa defeat last season, and I think a point could be reached where he decides its not worth his while anymore.
Spot on by Carragher I am afraid to say.......................
“It’s the same things with Arsenal, it’s nothing new,” he told Sky Sports. “It’s the way they play, the way they understand the game, what’s coming from the sidelines and how they allow themselves to get in these situations week after week, season after season.
“They were winning 1-0 but for the equalising goal they were all pushing forward and got caught on the counter-attack again.
“Then the winning goal is down to a weakness – not being physically strong enough when the cross comes in. These are problems that anyone can identify.”
Carragher pointed out Jefferson Montero clearly had the beating of right-back Calum Chambers from early on in the match, yet Wenger refused to act – either by subbing his defender or altering his tactics – and Arsenal paid the price, with the Ecuadorian crossing for Gomis’ winner.
The Sky Sports expert put Wenger’s reluctance to alter his plans down to the Frenchman’s confidence in Arsenal’s attacking ability but also chastised Chambers’ team-mates for not realising the problems he was having with the winger and acting to address the issue.
“Yesterday at Anfield, Jose Mourinho saw Raheem Sterling as a danger for Chelsea and he had Ramires on that side to try and stop him,” said Carragher, referring to the Blues’ 2-1 win over Liverpool.
“I thought Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain had a good game in terms of going forward for Arsenal but at half-time it was clear Chambers is having one of those days where Montero had got the better of him.
“I’ve been there as a defender and you need help. You can change it; Arsenal had Hector Bellerin on the bench, who is inexperienced, but is supposed to be one of the quickest players at the club. Could he have made a difference with his pace? Or tell Oxlade-Chamberlain, ‘stand in front of Chambers, forget going forward because we need protection. We need to stop this'.
“But Arsene Wenger has so much belief in his team and the way they play, he says ‘we’ll go forward, play our own game, do not worry about the opposition’. But it’s proving that you have to think about the opposition.
“We say it every year about Arsenal, in big games – not normally these sort of games – they go and play their normal game away from home and get batted 3-0 or 4-0. But the problem was obvious and something needed to be changed at half-time – but nothing changed. And they’ve ended up losing the game because of it.
“You talk about leaders in football, though, and that’s a perfect example. After a ten minute spell in the game, when your full back is up against it, [centre-back] Per Mertesacker should say to Oxlade-Chamberlain, ‘stand there, do not move for 15-20 minutes, until we kill this threat’.
“You never see that with Arsenal. You can’t always play exactly the same way. Games change. Sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re behind. You can’t keep on playing the same way.”
That guy must be AW's little helper, what a joker. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
We're only a point off 4th, so our season's objectives are very much in sight, so I don't think anyone at the club is going to be too worried by this defeat. As one of the fans said, no other manager would have got 4th place so often with such a small budget, I guess we should be grateful for 4th place, after all this seems to be the holy grail for most clubs.
Sadly, it is the holy grail for most clubs. It certainly seems to be for us.
As long as we keep achieving it and the money keeps rolling in, the Board are under no pressure at all to make the one change we desperately need.
NQ - if you want specifics I'll start with this match. We start the game with an inexperienced centre-back playing right back, and immediately his lack of pace is a problem. Chambers is a fine prospect at CB, but plainly lacks the pace needed for a full-back. We have a reserve left-back as a CB. Monreal is willing, but the poor guy isn't up to dealing with a big centre forward.
Why are we in this position? Because Wenger starts the season with 15 players who can fill the 6 midfield/attacking positons, and a mere 5 players (6 if you count Monreal) who can play back four. One bad injury (Debuchy) would be a disaster. Lose a second (Kos) and it's a farce. What are Gibbs' chances of staying fit to the Xmas transfer window? How soon before Merts is totally knackered?
At this rate Wenger and Bould will be getting their boots ready to be paired at CB.
The stupidity of this season is that we have some serious gas back in the team and could start scoring for fun. I said "could" btw. But WHAT IS THE POINT if the manager fucks up the balance of his squad so badly?
Do I get to first base, NQ?
To be fair to Merson, the 'tactically clueless' jab was aimed at the players. He avoided out right attacking Wenger but I think the gloves will come off if Wenger continues to throw such dismissive shots at his critics. It will snowball and pundits will start taking a closer look at all of his decisions. I've already read a few this morning. The zero experience argument is no defence and that will only put the pundits back up because it's so dismissive. For years, they've avoided taking aim at Wenger and have just accepted the 'lack of money' argument. In a way, he's been shielded from serious criticism for years. If results like yesterday continue we'll start to see a different approach. It already started with that Jacqui Oatley post game reaction. A lot of people in the press didn't like his reaction and I'm sure they'll poke at him some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
But the press doing what they usually do won't change anything unless fans actually do something. Protests, banners, boycotts...it's something at least and he'll surely get the message that he needs to change things or move on.
To be fair if I was a manager I'd be dismissive of ex professionals opinions as well, do I think Merson is right? Of course but at the same time this is a guy who has boasted about playing a drinking game with Gazza involving wine and sleeping tablets so he's quite easy for Wenger to dismiss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The criticism needs to be coming internally, and it kind of makes an irony of the statements of support the board give him. If they were supportive of him, they'd be interfering more in the football aspects of the club. This nonsense that idiots like Stewart Robson perpetuates of Wenger being a dictator is facile because it goes against what anyone will tell you about Wenger, he is a man who hates confrontation and invariably is only in a position of unchecked and unquestioned authority because no one above him in the hierarchy is questioning him.
It's incredibly easy to think your doing well when nobody tells you otherwise
This is no defence of Wenger by the way, he's intelligent enough and being paid enough to identify what's wrong without being told. But the fact is his stubborn intransigence is not being questioned by those he might listen to
8 players were all out of place before they got their freekick..
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2FcZYaCcAEADqh.jpg
On Paper the best squad for years, results wise a right ruddy hames. Wenger tactically in the dark ages.
Even in the dark ages there was probably some sort of flexible or alternative strategy. What we're seeing is a complete reluctance towards in-game management, which is surely the very fabric of what being a manger is about. I'm not going to advocate giving the job to any flavour of the month, but it's not going to take a manager with a glittering CV to improve us. There are plenty of savvy and hungry managers who could make a difference on what we're currently seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodders
On Saturday the under 15's i coach were playing. Thier left winger was having a torrid time against my right back, as he was faster and stronger. 10 mins later thier coach moved his left winger out on the right hand side, as my left back was not as fast or stronger. 2 mins later I switched my right back to play left back and the left back on the right. We won the game 2-0. Simples. I dont have to be Ferguson to see how to protect my player from a much a better player. Then how does an idiot like Wenger not see that Chambers was getting the runa rounds from Montero all game long. £8 million a year, do me a favour.
i think i preferred it when we didn't spend money on players like ozil, sanchez, debuchy etc. At least then it was understandable why we were so shit.
Now we have those players and we are still shit.
Wenger has to go
Hmm there was no like for like solution on the bench
However what I'd have done is take Cazorla off at 1-0, replacing him with Wilshere. Then moved Ramsey to the right hand side of midfield instruct him not to bomb forward and protect his full back, moved Ox to the centre to play with Flamini and Wilshere. And get them to stay behind the centre circle unless there is a tangible break on.
Ollie :rose:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
No like for like solution because Wenger has built an inbalanced squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Square pegs and round holes...he's made a right mess of the squad and he needs to fix it quick. God knows where we go from here...
Yes, you can be dismissive of ex-players if you know what you’re doing. Merson’s life outside of football shouldn’t dismiss what he’s said about the squad because even with the wild lifestyle those guys had they still had enough brain cells to know when and how to protect a lead and lock up shop. How to stay organised and take instructions. If an ‘imbecile’ like Merson can see what’s going wrong on the pitch, what’s the current crops excuse? Wenger is dismissive regardless of whose breaking the news to him and that’s why he’s in this mess. Internal voices…..is he listening to Steve Bould? It doesn’t look like Bould’s appointment has made the change we’d all hoped to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
As for Wenger not being a dictator…why is that farfetched? We’ve seen his petulant and tetchy side with the press, we’ve seen how aggressive he can be with that recent Mourinho touchline incident, he has a way of completely ostracising players that are either outspoken or he just doesn’t rate…you don’t have to be a snarling beast to be a dictator.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2ElaqMIMAAb70e.jpg
Quote:
Arsenal are doing worse now than in 2011-12 when #afc had Gervinho & Santos on the left. Humiliating.
Every manager gets petulant and touchy with the press, I've heard nothing about him ostracising players for being outspoken. Players like Podolski are on the sidelines because he doesn't rate them....picking Sanogo over him shows poor judgement nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
And even if Wenger was a dictator it doesn't excuse the board or his staff for blindly following him. My point is if Wenger deserves to go he should be followed out the door by a lot of people at the club. If one man is responsible for all our troubles than the people backing him are just as culpable
Bould in my view is the only man who has stood up to Wenger but ultimately he is subordinate to the manager, and this is why the board are responsible. That's why I don't see things as getting better when Wenger goes because any new manager will be under no pressure to achieve big success and probably will end up just as entrenched as l'ouisseau. To see real change you need not only Wenger gone, but the Kroenke family (brought about by the strangely lionised David Dein) and Blue Chips Keswick too (oh and Jabba the Hut whilst we are at it).
This isn't going to happen, our club belongs to the robber baron who are happy to keep Ronald Reagan at the reigns.
Oh I agree, I was simply stating there was no like for like substitution as a point of fact. Plus the rest of my post indicates an alternative strategy we in my view should have undertakenQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie