Yeah we're deep in that race now with City, Utd & West Ham. We've still got to go City & West Ham for 4th place cup battles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
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Yeah we're deep in that race now with City, Utd & West Ham. We've still got to go City & West Ham for 4th place cup battles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
City are flaky and will drop points. They have Norwich away and then the Manc derby after that. They also go to Chelsea, Swansea and Southampton and play us at their place so there are plenty of tough games for them left. Leicester though are very dogged, i think they will win every time they play, they are full of confidence.
Top for for me will be Leicester, Spurs, City and Us.
If Wenger overturned the first leg and ended up winning the CL and FA cup would anybody want him to stay?
If he won us the CL he has my blessing to stay for as long as he wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
No. Not even the treble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Sure, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
I mean, it's not going to happen.
Heroic defeat in the final.
But that's like saying if something that can't happen because of Wenger were to happen, would you want Wenger to stay. Yes, if Wenger becomes the opposite of what he is now then I'd want him to stay. But every other manager is already the opposite of Wenger so why not just go and get one of them instead of wasting even more time waiting for Wenger to change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
West Ham will tail off and Utd have two more league games against Pool to come too. 4th place trophy is safe as houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
That is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Obviously it won't happen so it's a moo point.
:d I knew you'd like that one fellas.
But seriously PG tips.....the treble?? You'd reconsider surely.....
Nope. Wouldn't that be the absolute perfect send off for Wenger? Why sour the moment with another season? If the team some how manage to conjure up some strength and find their backbone, I can only imagine it lasting for a brief period. It would be business as usual come next season. Nobody wants that. He should leave on a high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
http://i63.tinypic.com/2houqz5.jpg
This made me smile.
:haha:
Bayern should really be in the Mercedes. :coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
I especially like the Foxes analogy, off the track but winning. Their car was probably being driven by some bloke who just showed up at the track on the day of the race, while the highly paid established drivers are just running into each other on the asphalt.
Arsenal driven by Pastor Maldonado.
Yeah I think it will end up like that and in that order. Leicester are machine like, every test thrown at them and they have overcome it, even when they do lose which is very rarely they come back and go on a run again.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
They are massive favorites for me now for the title, it sounds crazy but I just can't see them blowing it. I think they'll win it by more than 5 points too.
For all the scoffing I've done at them with the players they have in their team, they have a system, a system that works and is highly effective. Fair play to them, they deserve to be champions.
At this point I've given up hope for ourselves. Too weak mentally, and not enough quality in either the squad or the tactics to deal with problems.
I just hope Leicester keep it up and win it now. I'm still not convinced though, they've pretty much had the same XI for the whole season so their key players might not be able to keep up their level. They've done admirably to have been so consistent so far but for the last 9 games I think the tiredness will finally show.
And they've been lucky as hell with injuries, they can't afford to lose Mahrez or Vardy because they don't have the squad to deal with it.
Come on Leicester :pray:
On paper we have easiest schedule, other than City, Hammers, and the Everton games. Theorhetically we should be winning those games.
At this point nothing will surprise me.
No chance we will win it. To me, Leicester are favorites followed by City and Spurs. We will finish in our goal position of 4th.
At this moment we will do well to finish fourth
Not really.
And it's a myth we always finish 4th. Last 8 years we've finished 4th 4 times and 3rd 4 times.
Would be nice to finish a bit higher, granted.
Either way it's a fact losers finish 3rd and 4th all the time, no club that can truly be called a top club would be happy with those positions, indeed you'll find the bigger clubs always strive to win rather than come 3rd of 4th, those positions are mere consolation prizes due to the fact that you qualify for the CL and the money that brings.
You won't find Barca, Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Man United, Man City etc happy coing 3rd or 4th every season, for them it's a disappointment and failure to achieve the ultimate goal.
It's the clubs attitude to coming 3rd/4th that's the problem, we see it as Wenger once said as a major trophy, not what it actually is.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35765289
An example of how the players are succeeding despite the manager. We might as well sack the dinosaur and let the players manage themselves... we are better off without someone as clueless as him.
Major. Yep, that's definitely not made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
They did the same thing before the 3-0 United game too earlier on in the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
And the same thing before we beat the gypos a couple of seasons back. If this is genuinely making a difference they need to do it every week or else the Wengeritis will just come back.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
It's one of the top 3 trophiesQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-a-trophy.html
I'm not sure what point is trying to be made here when the FA Cup is now treated with derision on here from some now we've won it twice since that.
Well someLetters consider the FA Cup a major trophy, so that would make the CL spot a major trophy. I don't see it as a trophy incidentally, but Wenger does and has often demonstrated his pride in qualifying for the CL.
No doubt the FA Cup has lost some of it's prestige thanks to the money involved in PL and CL but I still view it as something worth winning. It's at least better than when we were known and mocked for winning sod all.
Arsenal fans will enjoy winning it again. Anyone enjoys picking up a trophy but the buzz of being the FA Cup champ doesn't exactly linger on in the memory. A week or two after winning the last one, we'd moved on. There is next to no prestige in winning the cup anymore for various reasons. It is the occasion of being in a showpiece event and winning the actual game that means more than anything else.
Of course, and it's kinda funny to see all the people doing cartwheels when we won it a couple of years ago now furiously backtracking and dismissing it now it fits their agenda. Calling top 4 a 'trophy' was unfortunate but the point he was making was obvious, and obviously true - finishing top 4 is arguably more important in the modern game than winning a domestic Cup. It shouldn't be, obviously, but the CL is all important both financially and in terms of attracting players like Sanchez and Ozil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Back in the halcyon days of 92/93 we focussed on the cups to the detriment of the league, hence flirting with relegation that season. That is no longer an option.
But Wenger achieved both for the last 2 seasons anyway so why are people making this another stick to beat him with? There are plenty of real ones, people don't have to invent ones.
The only invention going on here comes from you. The idea the FA Cup has to be viewed as a "major" trophy before you can enjoy winning it is one such invention. Any club would prefer to win it rather than not, but even Wenger considers it 4th in his list of priorities - 5th in fact, because profit for the owners is the unmentioned top priority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
When we won it as a first trophy in years of course that was a big deal - for the club. It didn't make the FA Cup a big deal. Winning the Cup was like breaking a bad habit, finally we hadn't choked and fallen at the final hurdle. So understand this, certainly myself and I'm, sure every Arsenal fan was delighted we won it. And it was great to win it last season too, why not? But the significance was not as great, because we'd yet again been thrashed in the league and the first cup win hadn't provided the springboard most of us hoped it would. Now we can win it again. This time we are being thrashed by Leicester. On the day we'll want to win and be happy if we do. But let's keep things in context. An FA Cup win, and we still have to win it, washes away nothing. It's a consolation prize, it means we don't finish the season empty handed. We get the leftovers, it's something. But a major trophy? Well we can really think what we like because the man in charge has already relegated it below the 4th Place Trophy.
Nobody is beating Wenger for winning cups. They are beating him for being 8 points adrift of Leicester City with 9 games to go. They are beating him for his consistency in the Last 16 League. They are beating him for not signing the players we needed to mount a challenge in the genuinely major trophies. Why are you pretending otherwise? Why are you inventing stuff?
FA Cup this season would feel like a consolation prize, granted, because the league was there for the taking this year and we've cocked it up royally.
What is a "major" trophy is not quantifiable but the reaction to the FA Cup was partly relief about winning a trophy after so long and partly a recognition of the FA Cup's history and status.
No-one would have been reacting like that over a league Cup win. No-one would have supported Wenger signing a new contract on the back of it.
Really? You're doing the "you know you are, you said you are" thing again? Sheesh.Quote:
Why are you inventing stuff?
You're just repeating what I already said but then you spin the argument on its head by using the league cup as the comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The 4th Place Trophy may well be the biggest problem we have at this club. I would like to see the FA Cup elevated back to its original status. I don't like what has happened to it, how it has been sidelined by "all about the cash" tournaments like the CL. I especially don't like it that our manager believes coming 4th is something to sing about. He should be ashamed of constantly being an also-ran but the cash coming in from the CL allows him to create and celebrate his 4th Place Trophy and many of the fans buy into it. Even the media goes on about 19 years successive 4th Place Trophy winners as if it is something to brag about. That's how far away from being winners we are and look at how many people have been convinced. What they are really doing is paying homage to the cash and fucking an historic tournament like the FA Cup out the window. This is at the root of what is wrong with football.
So while I don't want the FA Cup to be a minor trophy, all the evidence says it is. Killed by cash and Wenger's ridiculous 4th Place Trophy (in terms of our club). It's a reserve team trophy. When Hull can't be arsed to field a full strength team then we know the score. And poxy man utd started the ball rolling downhill when the cunts couldn't even be bothered to turn up, because they had cash on the table elsewhere. The glory of cash, not sport. Now they are trying to ditch replays, shunt all the games to midweek, the whole essence of the competition is long since dead and you know it because you're old enough to remember when it meant something and you can make the simple comparison. So let's stop pretending.
You say Wenger's philosophy is "unfortunate", I say it's a bloody disgrace. Anti-football, pro-money. He's one of the guys who helped kill the FA Cup. Of course in recent years it's suddenly valuable again, for the PR doctors at least.
An easy statement to make with no way of proving it either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Given the intensity surround our appearance against Birmingham, it's fair to say the sense of relief of winning a cup, breaking that duck, building a platform and a 'winners mentality' would have been pretty much the same.
The buzz of winning the League Cup would have worn off in a week or so. The excitment of winning the FA Cup didn't last any longer on both occassions.
Sure, but you could say that about the majority of statements people make on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
It's my opinion though and it's not baseless. Who cares about the League Cup? Seriously. I made a joke in BW about Liverpool not being at Wembley for ages, Tibbles replied "we're there next Sunday". Well shut my mouth :lol:. They were there for the league cup final and to be honest I had no idea who had got to the final. That does reflect my general ennui with the game I guess but while the FA Cup's prestige has certainly been dented by the CL it still has a history and tradition and following that the League Cup has never had.
The BBC had a whole day of programming for FA Cup Final day, who would do that about the league cup? They're not even vaguely comparable in terms of prestige.
I don't even think there would have been a buzz of winning a league cup. Better to win it than not if you get to the final but I don't think there would have been any open top bus parades.
The evidence that says it isn't is how I felt when we won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I didn't say his philosophy is unfortunate, more the language he used. But he's right, top 4 IS probably more important than a domestic trophy. It shouldn't be, but I don't think we'd have signed Ozil or Sanchez if we'd won the FA Cup but finished mid-table.
But we might have signed Ozil and Alexis had our focus been on winning something. How many times have we been denied a real challenge because the manager won't engage in the transfer market? The 2% away thing is a running joke. If he'd have closed that 2% gap years ago, as he should have done, then what's to say we wouldn't have a couple of titles under our belt and be challenging for the signature of top players? What's to say we couldn't have increased the fan base, built the finances based on success on the pitch rather than bookkeeping in the boardroom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You are framing everything in terms of that Top 4 Trophy, just like Wenger. He claims we couldn't have competed against the dopers. Those claims look pretty weak now, based on our clear superiority over the gypos last season (even though we shamefully chucked the last games) and the state these mercenary clubs are in this season. And the chavs last season were shite. They ground it out but don't tell me that was a good team. Could we have picked up the talent required to compete given our budget? Ask Leicester. Wenger's transfer policies have been appalling for years, reactive instead of proactive. He's played it cautiously, he admits as much with all his shite about self sustenance and fair play and all the other bullshit that's completely ignored by the teams that have gone full pelt, whatever it takes. Ferguson won the thing with the shittiest team he's ever had. It could be done and it can be done. Wenger never put in the required effort. He played it safe, delivered to the guys upstairs and was negligent elsewhere. He's been the problem all along.