Jamie Vardy - BBC Sport - Vardy set to reject Arsenal

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Originally Posted by Kano

Liverpool had Suarez and Sturridge scoring for fun, over a hundred goals and still didn't win it. There's more to it than that.

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There is more to it than that but Liverpool's squad was nowhere near good enough to win the league and Suarez almost single handedly won them the title regardless.
OK, they didn't win it but he clearly made a difference to them, when he left they weren't as good. Of course a player like that makes a difference and it would have made us a difference to us last year.
Whether it would have made enough difference to win us the league is obviously something we can't know, it's almost pointless debating it further.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

The stats are misleading. There are way too many games where it looks like we're struggling to just get a shot on target. We'd be waiting well into the first half or even 2nd just to test their keeper. There aren't many games where we're missing sitter after sitter.

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Agree, but wouldn't a top striker have made a difference in those games too?

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Originally Posted by Letters

There is more to it than that but Liverpool's squad was nowhere near good enough to win the league and Suarez almost single handedly won them the title regardless.
OK, they didn't win it but he clearly made a difference to them, when he left they weren't as good. Of course a player like that makes a difference and it would have made us a difference to us last year.
Whether it would have made enough difference to win us the league is obviously something we can't know, it's almost pointless debating it further.

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My point of contention is the belief that a new striker would've won us the title. I've seen that said a few times with seemingly absolute certainty and I don't buy into that same level of complete confidence. It just seems odd that this way of thinking is starting to appear, given it was only a couple of months ago that most fans were frustrated to one level or another on so many other issues.

Exactly a top striker isn't just about finishing ability it's about positioning. What makes Welbeck a better option than Giroud is the way he makes and opens up space in the way Giroud just doesn't.

That said I certainly don't disagree that we could stand to be more direct, be confident to run with the ball more and open up space that way.

I wouldn't ever claim to have complete confidence, obviously I can't know what would have happened, but the number of times I saw us blundering away missing chances while Ozil facepalmed at the ineptitude of our strikers makes me think it would have been enough. Anyway, we all agree we need a top striker, surely?

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Originally Posted by Kano

No we're saying it still probably wouldn't have won us the league because the once it became clear the other big teams weren't involved, this squad should've had enough to win. But we didn't even last the course in terms of challenging, that's why it comes down to more than one player. Giroud has more pedigree than Vardy early last season. But it was absolutely clear that despite having the best chance to challenge properly for the title, Wenger isn't up to. Better striker or not. Too many other problems all over the squad. You don't just look back at a scenario, drop someone in and it all works out how you retrospectively imagine it to. Lack of energy in games, terrible football, sloppy passing, stupid goals, Flamini starting for weeks on end. The list goes on. That isn't going to change next season either. Hopefully he leaves gracefully at the end of next season.

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Spot on.

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

According to Ornstein he's still weighing up the offers, has this all just been a ruse by his agent to get a bigger contract at Leicester?

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He's got a big decision to make, I'm not even sure if we have offered him first team football, well through the middle. I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if Wenger stuck him on the wing assuming he does join.

The more time I have had to think about this deal the more uneasy I am with it. Yeah he's a decent enough player, yeah he scored a bucket load last season, some of them very good goals...I'm just not sure he's right for us and it doesn't address the fact we need a solid long term option up top.

I think we'll get 2 half decent seasons out of him max, it's a helluva investment for someone like that.

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Originally Posted by Kano

My point of contention is the belief that a new striker would've won us the title. I've seen that said a few times with seemingly absolute certainty and I don't buy into that same level of complete confidence.

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Our goal scoring and defended stats are not especially different to that of Leicesters or Tottenhams

Man City the top scorers got five more goals than us in a season where we registered our lowest goal tally for seven years

Away from home we scored more goals than anyone else but we couldn't hold onto leads or we were having to come from behind, and at home a better striker could have got us points at home to Liverpool, Southampton, Swansea and Crystal Palace.

Could have even got us back into the game against West Ham and Chelsea

Away from home, we had two goalless draws from
Seven so the problem came with an inability to close out the game.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Agree, but wouldn't a top striker have made a difference in those games too?

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Probably. But if we're talking about a top striker that's dependent on service, I don't really know.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Our goal scoring and defended stats are not especially different to that of Leicesters or Tottenhams

Man City the top scorers got five more goals than us in a season where we registered our lowest goal tally for seven years

Away from home we scored more goals than anyone else but we couldn't hold onto leads or we were having to come from behind, and at home a better striker could have got us points at home to Liverpool, Southampton, Swansea and Crystal Palace.

Could have even got us back into the game against West Ham and Chelsea

Away from home, we had two goalless draws from
Seven so the problem came with an inability to close out the game.

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Just looking at three key games last season, Southampton was just miserable and down to defence and midfield. Wenger himself said we lost because Southampton won more challenges in key areas. Walcott had more touches in our own half than theirs, despite us having 65% of possession! Man Utd away and Swansea at home we had no energy, seemingly no focus in important matches. A striker wouldn't have helped us then because the problems were everywhere else. One of those across the season was as you point out, failure to see out and control matches.

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Originally Posted by selassie

He's got a big decision to make, I'm not even sure if we have offered him first team football, well through the middle. I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if Wenger stuck him on the wing assuming he does join.

The more time I have had to think about this deal the more uneasy I am with it. Yeah he's a decent enough player, yeah he scored a bucket load last season, some of them very good goals...I'm just not sure he's right for us and it doesn't address the fact we need a solid long term option up top.

I think we'll get 2 half decent seasons out of him max, it's a helluva investment for someone like that.

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Not particularly a fan of this potential signing but I read something today that made sense. We took one of Leicester's analysts last season and he is surely able to provide real insight into Vardy's physical capabilities, on top of the endless amount of info the scouts at Arsenal already have. So perhaps the feeling is he may well be able to keep it up for 3/4 seasons.

Vardy is a good buy for any team (at least for the next 2 years). I just do not think he is the right buy for a team like Arsenal. Unless Wenger is changing Arsenal's style of play dramatically, I just cannot see how Vardy will more effective than Giroud.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Our goal scoring and defended stats are not especially different to that of Leicesters or Tottenhams

Man City the top scorers got five more goals than us in a season where we registered our lowest goal tally for seven years

Away from home we scored more goals than anyone else but we couldn't hold onto leads or we were having to come from behind, and at home a better striker could have got us points at home to Liverpool, Southampton, Swansea and Crystal Palace.

Could have even got us back into the game against West Ham and Chelsea

Away from home, we had two goalless draws from
Seven so the problem came with an inability to close out the game.

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Saw this earlier in the season too (mid April)

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...-a3227581.html

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Originally Posted by Kano

Not particularly a fan of this potential signing but I read something today that made sense. We took one of Leicester's analysts last season and he is surely able to provide real insight into Vardy's physical capabilities, on top of the endless amount of info the scouts at Arsenal already have. So perhaps the feeling is he may well be able to keep it up for 3/4 seasons.

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He doesn't have the same miles on the clock that a normal 29 year old striker would so I reckon there's plenty left in the engine. He seems like one of those wiry and naturally fit kind of people anyway...this is all until our medical team get their hands on him of course.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Saw this earlier in the season too (mid April)

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...-a3227581.html

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I don't think we especially had to play well to get more points in the fixtures you've cited

Southampton was probably one of the most shambolic performances in recent years and does exemplify your point

But let's be fair, a decent striker we could have finished off Swansea, Palace, Southampton and probably got more against West Ham and Chelsea if we had been able to find the net, in those five fixtures you cited we scored two goals.

The performances were too often sub par, but even despite that I still think a more prolific goal scorer could have bagged us 12-15 more points.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Saw this earlier in the season too (mid April)

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...-a3227581.html

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When you're leading games by the odd goal it doesn't really matter how good or bad you are at the back, it only takes a second for a moment of genius, bad luck or error to occur and everything is undone. There were too many games last season I felt we were plodding along and not killing games off when the opportunities were there.

Goals take the game away from an opponent, that's why I think the lack of a consistent striker is the biggest issue for a team like us where attack is the best form of defence.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't think we especially had to play well to get more points in the fixtures you've cited

Southampton was probably one of the most shambolic performances in recent years and does exemplify your point

But let's be fair, a decent striker we could have finished off Swansea, Palace, Southampton and probably got more against West Ham and Chelsea if we had been able to find the net, in those five fixtures you cited we scored two goals.

The performances were too often sub par, but even despite that I still think a more prolific goal scorer could have bagged us 12-15 more points.

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The reason I picked those three out was because the most noticeable problem on the day was how lacklustre we appeared in our approach. A real lack of urgency despite what winning them would have meant at the time. A better striker would have helped but under Wenger it just wouldn't be enough. The squad we had should've been enough given the level of competition last season but we didn't even challenge in the end.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Not particularly a fan of this potential signing but I read something today that made sense. We took one of Leicester's analysts last season and he is surely able to provide real insight into Vardy's physical capabilities, on top of the endless amount of info the scouts at Arsenal already have. So perhaps the feeling is he may well be able to keep it up for 3/4 seasons.

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Interesting, don't get me wrong I'm not against us signing him and if he provides 2, 3 or even 4 seasons for us like he has just done for Leicester then it's money very well spent.

About the potential, I meant that it would be preferable to sign someone in their early to mid 20's who could deliver straight away and for many years after that but that's kind of unrealistic because there doesn't appear to be anybody out there who is obtainable that fits the profile.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't think we especially had to play well to get more points in the fixtures you've cited

Southampton was probably one of the most shambolic performances in recent years and does exemplify your point

But let's be fair, a decent striker we could have finished off Swansea, Palace, Southampton and probably got more against West Ham and Chelsea if we had been able to find the net, in those five fixtures you cited we scored two goals.

The performances were too often sub par, but even despite that I still think a more prolific goal scorer could have bagged us 12-15 more points.

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Funny you mention one player getting us 12-15 points. Wasn't Cech supposed toto be worth that much in points to the team? But somehow we end up with less points by the end of the season. We'll always be unlucky in some area. It's a stream of failure with Wenger. Can't be contained to one area because we take to long to build. Come next season we'll probably have to come to grips with an aging defence and maybe an uninspired Ozil.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Liverpool had Suarez and Sturridge scoring for fun, over a hundred goals and still didn't win it. There's more to it than that.

And given all the frustration around the manager and his set-up, it feels like a nonsense to sweep all of that away in the name of one type of player not being in the team.

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To be fair Liverpool came only one Gerrard slip away from winning that outright and were only just pipped by a team who had themselves also managed to score a shedload of goals that season (Aguero and Negredo went mental that year iirc).

Someone will lookup it up but it's no coincidence that the team that scores the most goals in a season is usually the team that wins the league. Sure it's no guarantee of success but it'll put you in pole position.

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

To be fair Liverpool came only one Gerrard slip away from winning that outright and were only just pipped by a team who had themselves also managed to score a shedload of goals that season (Aguero and Negredo went mental that year iirc).

Someone will lookup it up but it's no coincidence that the team that scores the most goals in a season is usually the team that wins the league. Sure it's no guarantee of success but it'll put you in pole position.

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I think you're probably right about top scorers winning the league on most occasions.

In addition to that the champions typically have a great midfield, organised defence, focus well on the important games, aren't decimated by injuries and get goals from midfield too. I'm just not comfortable with the revisionist idea that one player would've meant we didn't end the season utterly frustrated, with so many other departments left unresolved.

Make a decision FFS.

There is no way the England camp are going to want this to drag on so close to Euro kick off.......shrewd by us for once because that would have been in the back of our mind with regards to the timing of the tabling of the bid

Encouraging words from Okazaki regarding Vardy's style of play;

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‘I think he has the potential to adapt to any style of soccer. At Leicester, we just happened to play the way we did and he fit fine,’ Okazaki told the Japan Times.

‘But even in a team that plays possession soccer, he has that sudden burst of speed and there are a lot of players at Arsenal who will notice that right away and play to that strength of his, like the way they did with Danny Welbeck.

‘He’s not someone who only tries to get behind the defence, though. He picks his spots.

‘Someone like me, I have to really get set up and then go but he can quicken instantly, go from zero to full speed. He can adjust to any style.’

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...i-Okazaki.html

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Originally Posted by Kano

The reason I picked those three out was because the most noticeable problem on the day was how lacklustre we appeared in our approach. A real lack of urgency despite what winning them would have meant at the time. A better striker would have helped but under Wenger it just wouldn't be enough. The squad we had should've been enough given the level of competition last season but we didn't even challenge in the end.

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I don't disagree at all, what I'm saying is given the performances weren't up to scratch....we'd have benefited greatly from a better striker.

C'mon FFS

He's being such a prick tease :sulk:

The olny reason not to have bid for him in Jan, is the fear of hamstrunging Leicester and cocking it up anyway and letting Tottenham win it.

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Originally Posted by Letters

He's being such a prick tease :sulk:

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I worry about you, first the drone and now this.

John Cross just said that Vardy is strongly considering the Leicester offer, which is also now in six figures

We got played for a better contract :doh:

Well no shit given he hasn't decided to join us yet.

Cross is an idiot.

Slightly worrying that we're having trouble attracting a player from Leicester City. We don't seem to have a Real Madrid aura about us these days. No fucking way would I turn down Arsenal if I was in his position. Especially as it's the club I support.

Sign of the times I guess. We might have a lot of history but Vardy was 17 when we last won the title. We are perceived very differently now and it's just something we have to accept until we achieve something good enough to alter that perception.

I reckon he'd be long gone if it was City who made the offer but it's us, a club stuck in a perennial state of stagnation.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Sign of the times I guess. We might have a lot of history but Vardy was 17 when we last won the title. We are perceived very differently now and it's just something we have to accept until we achieve something good enough to alter that perception.

I reckon he'd be long gone if it was City who made the offer but it's us, a club stuck in a perennial state of stagnation.

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Thing is at Leicester it's not going to get any better than it currently is. Legends for life at the club but they aren't going to defend the title and given his limited years left, the opportunity won't be plentiful. Apparently the contract clauses at the club come with a few conditions, timing being one them, I guess to allow the club enough time to get in replacements. So if he doesn't take this chance he may well have to wait until next summer for another one. He had a lookalike in Leicester who was making a bit of money until recently but that guy has been told in no short terms by his agent not to cross the line and 'damage' Vardy's brand. So he's obviously ruthless and looking at the money he can make of his image right now, a more prestigious club can surely only enhance that worldwide. Also the rumour was that this transfer had been kicking around for a couple of weeks before it became public. For all we know the decision could already be made but maybe kept quiet so Leicester can get a replacement onboard. Who knows.

We are not a draw and have little to offer that Leicester can't. If this does not come off, we are probably going to have to take a risk in the European market.

We desperately need to strengthen our striking capability but as has been mentioned already, it won't be enough because our biggest weakness by far isn't even on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Sign of the times I guess. We might have a lot of history but Vardy was 17 when we last won the title. We are perceived very differently now and it's just something we have to accept until we achieve something good enough to alter that perception.

I reckon he'd be long gone if it was City who made the offer but it's us, a club stuck in a perennial state of stagnation.

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Holy shit, really hits home that

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Originally Posted by Munchies

Holy shit, really hits home that

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Yeah man, I've finished Uni, moved to London, moved back to Southend, gone from a junior to a senior member of staff, bought and renovated a house, settled down with the missus and become a Dad since we last won the league!

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

Yeah man, I've finished Uni, moved to London, moved back to Southend, gone from a junior to a senior member of staff, bought and renovated a house, settled down with the missus and become a Dad since the last won the league!

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Congrats mate! :gp:

We should've won it atleast 3 times in the period, but it is what it is, tactics/lack of signings let us down as per usual.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

We are not a draw and have little to offer that Leicester can't. If this does not come off, we are probably going to have to take a risk in the European market.

We desperately need to strengthen our striking capability but as has been mentioned already, it won't be enough because our biggest weakness by far isn't even on the pitch.

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Was about to say it may have more to with him being loyal to Leicester than being about us not being a main draw, but then I thought about our record again.

It depends what Leicester have offered him contract wise, whatever we say about chances of winning etc that's essentially what players consider above all else.