Ozil - Do we need him?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Absolute nonsense PnG. What's happened to football is so obvious that the piss is making bruises as it hits your face. And yet we have some people saying, oh dear, how can we tinker with this just a little to get a different outcome? It's just silly.

You have some sort of agenda biased against Ozil. Any fool can look at the guy playing the game and come away appreciating he's a top class footballer. For that to be in question is ridiculous. It doesn't warrant a debate. However, it's perfectly legitimate to ask if we are getting the best from this player given our setup and our (ahem) tactics. We aren't. I'm not sure anyone disagrees with that. It's frustrating. We have a world class player on our hands and we can't seem to use those talents to the best effect. I wonder why that is? certainly not because the player lacks talent. And certainly not because he's established himself right up there with Messi as the most effective influencer in world football. I mean these are the facts, right? We know the guy can do it because he's done it. Right in front of our eyes.

So why is he not doing it now? Could it be that he's suddenly lost all his talent? Or could it be because we have an idiot in charge of the club?

I wonder? What could the most realistic answer be?

Wenger does this. He passes off the blame to anywhere and everywhere to avoid the glaring issue at the very heart of this club. The cancer.

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It’s far from nonsense. You should probably calm down with the blanket statements. It doesn’t help. You can’t have Lewandowki down as an ideal striker for us and a talented player but write off the whole of European football. That’s nonsense.

I also think you’re watching a totally different player. Ozil is super accurate and tends not to waste passes. Pinpoint accuracy. I rarely see him play a pass into space hoping the runner gets on to the end of it with a defender contesting it. He plays the percentages and often won’t take a shot if a player is in a better position than him. Am I wrong? That doesn’t mean he’s not world class and that doesn’t mean there is an agenda behind this. What would the purpose be? What’s my agenda?

This is the part I think you’re struggling with.

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However, it's perfectly legitimate to ask if we are getting the best from this player given our setup and our (ahem) tactics. We aren't.

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So if we all agree we’re not getting the best out of our players, how so?

I’m not the only one who thinks we’re not getting the best out of Ozil. But that extends to other players as well. Without talking about a radical change in personnel that involves the transfer window or sacking the manager, are their possible solutions within the squad to make us a better unit? I think so. Also, if we were to talk about other managers being able to get more out of this team than Wenger, explain how if possible. That’s all this is.

The way I see it, if you have a talent, whether it's picking out impossible passes like Özil, holding the ball up and being strong in the air like Giroud, or just running really, really fast like Theo, then you're a potential weapon that's waiting to be used - if we're not getting much out of them, then we're probably not using them right. Özil as no.10 and Giroud as CF is a combination that doesn't work, that's all, and it's making them both look bad - desist in pairing them together in this way, and I think a lot of the problems we see with them become a lot less visible.

As to whether we need Özil, of course we don't - he's a total luxury player! But 'need' isn't the same as 'want', and those luxury players (when you get a good one, and not a dud) are what add the sparkle and excitement to mere functionality and effectiveness. At the level that this club is pitching itself at, you've got to have both...

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's the wrong focus. No striker besides Griezmann really stood out and that's the whole point. Giroud scored 3 which is joint second but his play is complimented Griezmann's style.

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Basically, Özil is playing in exactly the right place, if has a different striker in fron of him. And Giroud is playing in exactly the right place if he has a different player behind him. Again, the problem here is the pairing, not the players...

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

It’s far from nonsense. You should probably calm down with the blanket statements. It doesn’t help. You can’t have Lewandowki down as an ideal striker for us and a talented player but write off the whole of European football. That’s nonsense.

I also think you’re watching a totally different player. Ozil is super accurate and tends not to waste passes. Pinpoint accuracy. I rarely see him play a pass into space hoping the runner gets on to the end of it with a defender contesting it. He plays the percentages and often won’t take a shot if a player is in a better position than him. Am I wrong? That doesn’t mean he’s not world class and that doesn’t mean there is an agenda behind this. What would the purpose be? What’s my agenda?

This is the part I think you’re struggling with.

However, it's perfectly legitimate to ask if we are getting the best from this player given our setup and our (ahem) tactics. We aren't.

So if we all agree we’re not getting the best out of our players, how so?

I’m not the only one who thinks we’re not getting the best out of Ozil. But that extends to other players as well. Without talking about a radical change in personnel that involves the transfer window or sacking the manager, are their possible solutions within the squad to make us a better unit? I think so. Also, if we were to talk about other managers being able to get more out of this team than Wenger, explain how if possible. That’s all this is.

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The ONLY thing that is going to solve this issue, and may others, is sacking the manager because the manager is the problem. And considering the manager has been messing around like this for a decade, regardless of who is in the team, means nothing is going to change while the manager is here. You can't say, how do we change it without sacking the manager, when sacking the manager is the thing that will change it.

If Wenger doesn't go then everything else is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

Özil is playing in exactly the right place, if Giroud isn't playing in front of him. And Giroud is playing in exactly the right place if Özil isn't sat behind him. Again, the problem here is the pairing, not the players...

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Exactly. It’s a really bad pairing. The question is, do we have the players to make a good pairing? With Giroud, I think we may if played with Sanchez slightly behind him. With Ozil, I always thought someone with pace would do. It’s early days for the Sanchez pairing but I’m a little worried because I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re on the same wavelength. But I’m prepared to give it more time. If it’s an obvious dud, the only real options left are Perez or Theo.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The ONLY thing that is going to solve this issue, and may others, is sacking the manager because the manager is the problem. And considering the manager has been messing around like this for a decade, regardless of who is in the team, means nothing is going to change while the manager is here. You can't say, how do we change it without sacking the manager, when sacking the manager is the thing that will change it.

If Wenger doesn't go then everything else is irrelevant.

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You might as well check out until Wenger leaves in that case. What more there to discuss if all this is pointless to you?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Exactly. It’s a really bad pairing. The question is, do we have the players to make a good pairing? With Giroud, I think we may if played with Sanchez slightly behind him. With Ozil, I always thought someone with pace would do. It’s early days for the Sanchez pairing but I’m a little worried because I haven’t seen anything to suggest they’re on the same wavelength. But I’m prepared to give it more time. If it’s an obvious dud, the only real options left are Perez or Theo.

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I really think Sanchez behind Giroud would be worth a try - that looks very similar to his pairing with Griezmann to me, and I think it's where Sanchez plays or Chile?

Or we could put Ramsey behind him? I could see that working well too (and it may even be what we need to get Ramsey's mojo back)?

I could even see Özil and Giroud working well in the same XI, if we put Özil down one of the flanks (whenever I've seen the two of them combine well in the past, it's usually when Özil's gone flying down the left on the break, and fizzed in a low cross for Giroud to hit first-time). They just don't work in that No.10/CF relationship - it highlights the worst parts of both of their games, and wastes all of their strongest attributes. Quite frankly, it's making the two of them look like idiots when they're really not.

With Özil staying at no.10, the solution is more obvious - play him with a more mobile CF! But, as you say, the problem we have is that all of the current options who might fit the bill are half-wingers who would have to learn the CF role, so we'd need to make our peace with that one taking a while to develop. I'm up for it - at least it would feel like we're doing something proactive, and that it might lead to a solution. Anything but more Giroud as CF and Özil behind him!

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

I really think Sanchez behind Giroud would be worth a try - that looks very similar to his pairing with Griezmann to me, and I think it's where Sanchez plays or Chile?

Or we could put Ramsey behind him? I could see that working well too (and it may even be what we need to get Ramsey's mojo back)?

I could even see Özil and Giroud working well in the same XI, if we put Özil down one of the flanks (whenever I've seen the two of them combine well in the past, it's usually when Özil's gone flying down the left on the break, and fizzed in a low cross for Giroud to hit first-time). They just don't work in that No.10/CF relationship - it highlights the worst parts of both of their games, and wastes all of their strongest attributes. Quite frankly, it's making the two of them look like idiots when they're really not.

With Özil staying at no.10, the solution is more obvious - play him with a more mobile CF! But, as you say, the problem we have is that all of the current options who might fit the bill are half-wingers who would have to learn the CF role, so we'd need to make our peace with that one taking a while to develop. I'm up for it - at least it would feel like we're doing something proactive, and that it might lead to a solution. Anything but more Giroud as CF and Özil behind him!

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Ramsey or Sanchez behind Giroud seems like it could work. I wouldn't mind seeing how that plays out and I'm not against Ozil being played wide either if we set up that way. We have enough players to control the middle of the park and I think Ozil would be lethal whipping in crosses to Giroud or teeing it up for Xhaka, Ramsey or Sanchez to belt.

I doubt Ozil would like playing wide but I can't see how we're going to get the best of him as a number 10 if things don't work out with these half wingers we're playing with. But definitely would rather see how that pans. I think each of them can offer something slightly different but would need time to adjust.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Ramsey or Sanchez behind Giroud seems like it could work. I wouldn't mind seeing how that plays out and I'm not against Ozil being played wide either if we set up that way. We have enough players to control the middle of the park and I think Ozil would be lethal whipping in crosses to Giroud or teeing it up for Xhaka, Ramsey or Sanchez to belt.

I doubt Ozil would like playing wide but I can't see how we're going to get the best of him as a number 10 if things don't work out with these half wingers we're playing with. But definitely would rather see how that pans. I think each of them can offer something slightly different but would need time to adjust.

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You don't want Ozil to play the advanced role but you're happy for Ramsey to? :haha:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You don't want Ozil to play the advanced role but you're happy for Ramsey to? :haha:

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:doh: It's not the same role as Ozil or even the same set up.

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So to get the most from Giroud we need a player more akin to Griezmann to play that role just off him, within the squad I’d say the most suited players would be Sanchez and Ramsey, who could really bring out the best in him, although the former seems to much prefer playing out wide and cutting in and the latter if he can carry his international form into the new season. Past that I’m sure there are plenty of names you could pull out of the transfer gossip lucky dip but while the list of those that are actually realistic is probabably quite short, it’s pretty clear that there are more viable attacking mids out there than there are strikers.

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I won't get into a debate on roles and positioning with you on this one. We know how that goes. Read around on the subject and maybe ask someone else that has suggested the same thing. I'm agreeing with IAV on this one. Also, it's right here in the original article I posted which you obviously didn't read. ;)

I didn't say it was the same role, it would be laughable even for you to suggest Ramsey is capable of the same level of pass making as Ozil.
What amuses me is that I know you think Ramsey is bang average as well, yet you're prepared to put him in the team above Ozil or try and shoe horn Ozil onto the flanks which Wenger did in his first season and it was why we often didn't see the best from him until his second season when he was positioned centrally.

I read the article I just didn't agree with it, Giroud played no better with Griezmann than he did with Ozil. And although I don't think Giroud is as awful as is made out, he's for the most part a flat track bully who has no big game mentality. You think that of Ozil, I disagree.

It would help if you read and stopped the armchair psychoanalysis. Why do I get the feeling you desperate to try and prove a point other than football? :lol:

Try to follow.

IAV

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Or we could put Ramsey behind him? I could see that working well too (and it may even be what we need to get Ramsey's mojo back)?

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PnG

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Ramsey or Sanchez behind Giroud seems like it could work. I wouldn't mind seeing how that plays out and I'm not against Ozil being played wide either if we set up that way.

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Following?

I'm pretty open to trying whatever brings the best out of the players and think it's foolish to persist with a system that doesn't work -Giroud/Ozil combo. Does that make sense? The right pairing can help bring out the best in both players. Ramsey is another player that looked better playing in a different role during the Euros so I'm prepared to see how he'd work playing closer to Giroud but not in a 3 man striker set up. That's not saying it will work for sure but if you've been following my posts, I've always said I can't bear another season of watching the same set up knowing it's going fail.

Seems like it to me.

Was outstanding again.

Missed the game. Was it a vintage Ozil performance? Can't tell from the highlights. Didn't get the best connection with his goal and got a bit lucky buy the turn and run to make it was excellent.

But if following the debate, I certainly wouldn't say Sanchez or Santi are a problem.

Also, Mac and Doug both of you should hold back on the wumming considering the constant jabs I've seen you guys have made about Walcott. Another big game performance but all of our best players should be showing up for a game like this.

Yeah not surprised you ended up mentioning Theo. You tend to always do. And why should I hold back? If I am proven ridiculously wrong about how Theo has been then as an Arsenal fan, why would that hurt?

Considering how long Theo has been at the club and how long I've been on GW, is that odd? I mention Wenger a lot too. :lol: Theo's performances and how's he's best used has always been a bone of contention. But it doesn't hurt at all if you're proven wrong. I'm just picking out the double standard when I see it especially when I've seen you praise other players for almost doing the same thing.

As much as I rate Ozil and I do, I don't think yesterday proved a lot, the Chelsea defence was so amateurish and the midfield so lacking in commitment that Denilson could have looked like a world beater against them.

Were you working for BT yesterday by any chance?

I'm not criticising our performance at all, the players all did what they needed to do and did it well. To say Chelsea made that job very easy is no reflection on us at all.

Yesterday proved what was patently obvious in the first place. If we use the talent we have at this club in an ambitious manner we can stand toe to toe with almost any opponent. Yes the chavs were poor, but I'm sure they didn't choose to be that way. We pulled their defence all over the place, we made them look bad. The chavs didn't sit back and invite us to have the ball, we harried them all over the pitch and when we regained possession we passed it quickly and accurately into the danger zone. We did the opposite of what we usually do. Can you imagine a similar result had we played the tippy tappy bollocks we've been suffering for several seasons now? About a year ago we ripped Utd apart in a similar manner. The challenge now is to build on this and not slip back into the conservative ways that have dragged our standard of football into the sewer. We KNOW we can do a lot better and we just saw the proof. How do we take this ambition and intensity into every game for the remainder of the season? That's the question and the challenge the manager faces now. No point making a bold statement if you don't follow it up decisively.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

As much as I rate Ozil and I do, I don't think yesterday proved a lot, the Chelsea defence was so amateurish and the midfield so lacking in commitment that Denilson could have looked like a world beater against them.

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You've completely overstated the second point but I agree with the bold.

He was excellent regardless of the goal and hasn't been nearly as bad as many have stated the last few games.

Better wear your tin hat PG Tips :d

I don't think the second point can be overstated, Chelsea were diabolical defensively

I was more referring to Denilson looking like a world beater...... Losing Kante as Ozil did is the sort of thing he does quite regularly albeit not always in such spectacular fashion or to that level of opposition. It won't always be lauded if it doesn't end in anything though.

Why not focus on how good we were.......and this time we were superb. It's not as if the performance was no better than PSG with the only difference being the opposition.

Sell him and buy back bichoff quite frankly.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I was more referring to Denilson looking like a world beater...... Losing Kante as Ozil did is the sort of thing he does quite regularly albeit not always in such spectacular fashion or to that level of opposition. It won't always be lauded if it doesn't end in anything though.

Why not focus on how good we were.......and this time we were superb. It's not as if the performance was no better than PSG with the only difference being the opposition.

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I remember there was 1 season in which denilson did actually look like a world beater

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Yesterday proved what was patently obvious in the first place. If we use the talent we have at this club in an ambitious manner we can stand toe to toe with almost any opponent. Yes the chavs were poor, but I'm sure they didn't choose to be that way. We pulled their defence all over the place, we made them look bad. The chavs didn't sit back and invite us to have the ball, we harried them all over the pitch and when we regained possession we passed it quickly and accurately into the danger zone. We did the opposite of what we usually do. Can you imagine a similar result had we played the tippy tappy bollocks we've been suffering for several seasons now? About a year ago we ripped Utd apart in a similar manner. The challenge now is to build on this and not slip back into the conservative ways that have dragged our standard of football into the sewer. We KNOW we can do a lot better and we just saw the proof. How do we take this ambition and intensity into every game for the remainder of the season? That's the question and the challenge the manager faces now. No point making a bold statement if you don't follow it up decisively.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UMIRGRd0WQ

This is a very tip tappy goal, NQ. I can't speak for the overall nature of the game because I've only seen the highlights but if Iwobi takes a heavy touch after the first pass from Ozil or if Kante doesn't slip and nicks the ball off Iwobi after the second pass back form Ozil, the opportunity for the 2nd goal has gone and we're open for the counter.

It's great play from Iwobi to make that turn and slip Bellerin in. He spots the run and plays the risky pass. He could have played it back out ignoring the run to try and keep possession. We'll always be a team that plays possession football under Wenger but I don't know how his coaching can stop a player from picking out a good run when playing so deep in our opponents half. It has to come down to individual choices at some point.

For example, watch Theo's movement for the build up. He makes a good run into the box as soon as he sees Ozil getting a touch and he calls for the pass. But Ozil plays a simple pass to Iwobi who's not really in a great position to do damage with his back to goal. It results in the sort of tipp tappy moment you despise and would probably curse if that move breaks down. Could Ozil not have played the ball first time to Theo? Did he see the run? Is it too much of a difficult angle and pass? I don't know. Would a pass to his left for Monreal to whip in a cross be better? Who knows. But it results in a goal. Heck of a pass from Iwobi to find Bellerin, great movement from Theo and perfect cross from Hector. 2-0.

We were so not tippy tappy yesterday.

I'm can't really tell but there were a couple of moments where we overplayed a little and then countered. I don't know if we deviated from the usual way we'd attack.

It was very tippy tappy, just with cutting edge. No need for us to pretend it was something else entirely because we won and played well. It was quick, incisive, progressive passes that cut them open to devastating effect.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UMIRGRd0WQ

This is a very tip tappy goal, NQ. I can't speak for the overall nature of the game because I've only seen the highlights but if Iwobi takes a heavy touch after the first pass from Ozil or if Kante doesn't slip and nicks the ball off Iwobi after the second pass back form Ozil, the opportunity for the 2nd goal has gone and we're open for the counter.

It's great play from Iwobi to make that turn and slip Bellerin in. He spots the run and plays the risky pass. He could have played it back out ignoring the run to try and keep possession. We'll always be a team that plays possession football under Wenger but I don't know how his coaching can stop a player from picking out a good run when playing so deep in our opponents half. It has to come down to individual choices at some point.

For example, watch Theo's movement for the build up. He makes a good run into the box as soon as he sees Ozil getting a touch and he calls for the pass. But Ozil plays a simple pass to Iwobi who's not really in a great position to do damage with his back to goal. It results in the sort of tipp tappy moment you despise and would probably curse if that move breaks down. Could Ozil not have played the ball first time to Theo? Did he see the run? Is it too much of a difficult angle and pass? I don't know. Would a pass to his left for Monreal to whip in a cross be better? Who knows. But it results in a goal. Heck of a pass from Iwobi to find Bellerin, great movement from Theo and perfect cross from Hector. 2-0.

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That goal is as far away from tippy tappy Wengerball MkII as you can get. This was Wengerball MkI, the original and still the best.

Four players in the box, moving the ball at high tempo, taking a risk with the pass, using width, having a player in a genuine striker's position as the ball comes into the box. All the things we normally don't do.

Under tippy tappy nobody would have moved into the box. They'd all have congregated around the edge of the box and held static positions, tapping pass after pass until the ball was eventually lost.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

It was very tippy tappy, just with cutting edge. No need for us to pretend it was something else entirely because we won and played well. It was quick, incisive, progressive passes that cut them open to devastating effect.

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There is no cutting edge with our regular tippy tappy, that's the problem. Always the extra pass, always the safe option. We started falling into that pattern after the match was secure and some have already said it was a shame we didn't go for the jugular and dish out a heavier dose of payback (which we could have done), but the extra energy, pace and the direct play is what won us this game. The crappy chav defence helped, but they would have loved it and been in the comfort zone had we opted to play in our normal manner.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

That goal is as far away from tippy tappy Wengerball MkII as you can get. This was Wengerball MkI, the original and still the best.

Four players in the box, moving the ball at high tempo, taking a risk with the pass, using width, having a player in a genuine striker's position as the ball comes into the box. All the things we normally don't do.

Under tippy tappy nobody would have moved into the box. They'd all have congregated around the edge of the box and held static positions, tapping pass after pass until the ball was eventually lost.

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You’re describing the same tactic just a different level of application. The exchanges of passes between Iwobi and Ozil aren’t necessary. But it worked. Our wingbacks always overlap and Theo always makes off the ball runs. It’s what he does most when we attack because he’s the one attacking player that has the least amount of passes and touches on the ball. Against a well organised defence, we’re sometimes shut out. It’s a thin line. As said, if Iwobi or Ozil lose get closed down quickly and lose the ball and we end up conceding, how is that different to when other teams sit back and hit us on the counter?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You’re describing the same tactic just a different level of application. The exchanges of passes between Iwobi and Ozil aren’t necessary. But it worked. Our wingbacks always overlap and Theo always makes off the ball runs. It’s what he does most when we attack because he’s the one attacking player that has the least amount of passes and touches on the ball. Against a well organised defence, we’re sometimes shut out. It’s a thin line. As said, if Iwobi or Ozil lose get closed down quickly and lose the ball and we end up conceding, how is that different to when other teams sit back and hit us on the counter?

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A "different level of application"? You mean it's the same thing but different?

If you are saying that we normally play with tempo and plenty of movement, and that our passing is usually decisive and aggressive and that we regularly get players into the kill zone in the opponent's box then I can't agree.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

A "different level of application"? You mean it's the same thing but different?

If you are saying that we normally play with tempo and plenty of movement, and that our passing is usually decisive and aggressive and that we regularly get players into the kill zone in the opponent's box then I can't agree.

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‘Tippy tappy’ is our poor man version of Tika Taka. The way we try to attack and dominate teams with our passing has always been the same. The lack of movement and effort that we often see from the players comes either down to a lack of effort or we’ve come up against a frustrating defence that we can’t break down. Same tactic, just a different result. After a loss and when Wenger says we played with the handbreak on’ or ‘lacked a little sharpness’, the same characteristics you’re now applauding; the aggressive pinpoint passing, the movement….that’s what he’s looking for from the team. This is how ‘Wengerball’ ‘Tippy Tappy’ is always supposed to be played but it doesn’t always work out.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

‘Tippy tappy’ is our poor man version of Tika Taka. The way we try to attack and dominate teams with our passing has always been the same. The lack of movement and effort that we often see from the players comes either down to a lack of effort or we’ve come up against a frustrating defence that we can’t break down. Same tactic, just a different result. After a loss and when Wenger says we played with the handbreak on’ or ‘lacked a little sharpness’, the same characteristics you’re now applauding; the aggressive pinpoint passing, the movement….that’s what he’s looking for from the team. This is how ‘Wengerball’ ‘Tippy Tappy’ is always supposed to be played but it doesn’t always work out.

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So Saturday was our usual game, except the chavs allowed us to play the way we want to but usually can't? Isn't that what BT was trying to paint?

Not buying it because very obviously we played differently on Saturday. We were much quicker to the ball, we committed far more players forward and we penetrated the penalty area for a change. And because the tempo was much higher is seemed to benefit our passing, almost as if we are better when we don't have time to think. Ozil dominated, though I guess you'll say he didn't. The team dominated and the chavs were overrun. Their defence may be disorganised but the pressure we placed on them played as much part as any troubles they are having on the training ground.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

So Saturday was our usual game, except the chavs allowed us to play the way we want to but usually can't? Isn't that what BT was trying to paint?

Not buying it because very obviously we played differently on Saturday. We were much quicker to the ball, we committed far more players forward and we penetrated the penalty area for a change. And because the tempo was much higher is seemed to benefit our passing, almost as if we are better when we don't have time to think. Ozil dominated, though I guess you'll say he didn't. The team dominated and the chavs were overrun. Their defence may be disorganised but the pressure we placed on them played as much part as any troubles they are having on the training ground.

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:doh: You really don't understand the difference, do you?

On attack, we were playing the same tactics as we usually would but our players were just on their A game. I can't speak for Chelsea.

Do you think Wenger told them to play faster or intentionally tells them each game not to make runs and not to pass quickly? I mean, when have we not played with as many forward as possible? That's how we always attack but can get caught out when it goes wrong.

Sounds like you're both arguing the same point to me, and somehow managing to sound like you're disagreeing? Basically, play with purpose and (controlled) aggression and you'll make things happen, no matter what your gameplan is.

Look at the 3 goals we scored on saturday: one came from high pressing and forcing a mistake, one from tippy-tappy / one-touch passing around a packed area, and one from a swift counter from deep in our own half. One was a solo effort, one a team goal, and one a partnership. Tactically speaking, they were all completely different - the common theme to all of these goals was individual and collective hunger and desire to make something happen.

Great to see that we're capable of scoring such a variety of goals using the same XI players and the same shape - once we've fully integrated Xhaka into team, and we can lauch attacks from any depth and any width, I think we're gonna be really hard to keep out...

Passing the ball is passing the ball. For me tippy, tappy is forward one, sideways, backwards, forwards, sideways, back to Cech, forward, forward, sideways, backwards, forwards. We might be lucky and be at the half way line by now. Meanwhile, the oppo has packed the box. We then tippy, tappy to the box and find no way through, so we tippy, tappy around the box and lose possession. Then it all starts again:banghead:

On Saturday we moved forward with purpose and pace, yeah the Chavs defence was off, but we caused that in some part by being decisive.

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

Sounds like you're both arguing the same point to me, and somehow managing to sound like you're disagreeing? Basically, play with purpose and (controlled) aggression and you'll make things happen, no matter what your gameplan is.

Look at the 3 goals we scored on saturday: one came from high pressing and forcing a mistake, one from tippy-tappy / one-touch passing around a packed area, and one from a swift counter from deep in our own half. Tactically speaking, they were all completely different - the common theme to all of these goals was individual and collective hunger and desire to make something happen.

Great to see that we're capable of scoring such a variety of goals using the same XI players and the same shape - once we've fully integrated Xhaka into team, and we can lauch attacks from any depth and any width, I think we're gonna be really hard to keep out...

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That's just it. It's down to application and how the players approach the game. NQ makes it sound we abounded our main attacking principles for this one game. That's where we are on a different page.

If we'd have conceded two goals in the 2nd half from those counter attacks, he'd be cursing Wenger. If Kos and Bellerin hadn't made those last ditch challenges, if Batshuayi had scored his goal, can you imagine what NQ would say about the tactics? Wenger being negative?