Arsenal v Sunderland 19.45 at home

Wenger has been a lot more careful with his words post protest too. His, "Don't care, we already sold the tickets", attitude has turned into something far less abrasive.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again you make these statements based on absolutely nothing.

Arsenal's league position governs it's share value, if you don't believe Kroenke will fire a sports manager who is underperforming and costing him money just ask Jeff Fisher.

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Really, you don't think Kroenke has a good relationship with Wenger, you don't think they might actually be on friendly terms now?

Wenger has made them money, the board have known Wenger for years and back him 100% as well, it's all a bit of gentlemans club.

I don't know this Fisher guy, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't manager for 20 years.

I'd love nothing more than for the above not to be true, but that's what I believe, to me it seems their support is unwavering, where other clubs would have come down hard after some terrible results, our club has just sugar coated it. Arsenal isn't some normal sports team, it's a club where someone is ingrained in the clubs culture and where almost everything revolves around one man.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Protests weren't too bad actually, and I bet quite a few of those who did turn up were one-time opportunists who probably don't get the whole Wenger thing anyway. Not buying into the idea the thousands stayed away because it was Sunderland. There was more to it than that. Looks like many regulars made their feelings known by their absence. The media is paying attention, as you say. I wonder if Kroenke can be persuaded to pay attention too?

Talking of AFTV, I notice all the regulars attended. I wonder what the thinking was there? Most of them are Wenger out and they must have known about the boycott. So what are they doing turning up? If they absolutely must get their YouTube fame fix, stand outside the ground for the duration. Seemed a bit weird that none of them participated in any way. Did any of them even mention it, apart from commenting on how poor the atmosphere was?

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I think we do benefit a lot from selling tickets to tourists, we are one of the nearest clubs to central London and although it's not a reputation that is founded on anything substantial lately, we do have a reputation for good football.

Whilst I can understand Robbie Lyle himself attending, Troopz and DT?......as much as I think DT has become a great deal more coherent and less vitriolic anger in the last year (he was when they had that bell end Gary Neville on the show the most articulate of the four) I do think again he's in the business for himself as a vlogger (again it's a growing industry so can't blame him).

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This was never the vision for this masterpiece of a stadium. It deserves so much better than nights like this.

When Arsenal departed their spiritual home in 2006 supporters were told it was for the greater good.

They were promised special nights; with a special team to grace a special new stadium.

The old Highbury's unrecognisable now. So is that original vision.

In fairness to Arsenal, they got the special stadium bit right. The Emirates remains a first-rate venue.

But on the pitch, this club is anything but special.

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Sami Mokbel, one of the more pro-Arsenal journos. And that's it. When you ask the fans to buy a vision (and I mean literally buy, with the highest ticket prices in the world), when you ask them to sacrifice trophies and the highest level of football excellence, then you'd better deliver on your side of the deal. The club built a stadium (now leveraged by the owner), but the rest of it has been one giant piss take. There's no entitlement here. No lack of gratitude. What we have is a broken deal. The fans faithfully kept up their end, packing out that stadium week in, week out. Buying the 750 different kit launches. Paying up the sky rocketing amounts to catch a glimpse on TV. Pulling extra notes out of their noses for BT's arrival. Tick all those boxes, that work was done.

The club? They have delivered much too. Excuse after excuse after excuse.

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Originally Posted by Özim

There's no purpose, it's reality, the only way to get him out is for fans to make it impossible for him to stay basically, where he decides it's just too much hassle to stay on, the board aren't going to get rid of him, he's not going to fall low enough in the table for them to do that, they back him 100%.

If he feels he's universally not wanted, he might decide it's time to call it a day...but you never know with Wenger, he might take the opposite stance just to prove people wrong. We're in a very unique scenario here where someone has had power for 20 years and controls many facets of the club, way more than he should and where the board are universal and unwavering in their support for him.

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We're in a situation where they don't have to fire him. They don't have to give him a contract. Also, I don't think the support is unwavering. We've already heard reports of unrest and it makes no sense for them to keep Wenger on if he ends up costing them money. Isn't the money the reason why we all feel he has so much support from them in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Özim

Really, you don't think Kroenke has a good relationship with Wenger, you don't think they might actually be on friendly terms now?

Wenger has made them money, the board have known Wenger for years and back him 100% as well, it's all a bit of gentlemans club.

I don't know this Fischer guy, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't manager for 20 years.

I'd love nothing more than for the above not to be true, but that's what I believe, to me it seems their support is unwavering, where other clubs would have come down hard after some terrible results, our club has just sugar coated it. Arsenal isn't some normal sports team, it's a club where someone is ingrained in the clubs culture and where almost everything revolves around one man.

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Kroenke is a businessman and a pretty ruthless one, he and Wenger according to reports haven't even spoken in 2017

Wenger has made them money, but the point is he's on a downward trajectory and the longer in continues the less money he will make for the club

How long Jeff Fisher had been at the club is irrelevant, he was sacked six months after being given a contract extension after going on a losing run.

Your belief is based on a sense of negativity, you feel negative i appreciate that.....but it doesn't make you objective in your viewpoint.

I wonder how many will stay for the lap of "honour" at the end of the Everton game. That will send another message.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

We're in a situation where they don't have to fire him. They don't have to give him a contract. Also, I don't think the support is unwavering. We've already heard reports of unrest and it makes no sense for them to keep Wenger on if he ends up costing them money. Isn't the money the reason why we all feel he has so much support from them in the first place?

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I'd agree money is the main point, but I'd add Wenger has been there 20 years, has a lot of board support and has been Kroenke money and I'm not sure that's going to change, right now it's not affecting them because the tickets were sold, if season tickets sales were down then you never Kroenke might decide he needs to let him go, but didn't GB say he ran the Amercian franchise into the ground?

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think we do benefit a lot from selling tickets to tourists, we are one of the nearest clubs to central London and although it's not a reputation that is founded on anything substantial lately, we do have a reputation for good football.

Whilst I can understand Robbie Lyle himself attending, Troopz and DT?......as much as I think DT has become a great deal more coherent and less vitriolic anger in the last year (he was when they had that bell end Gary Neville on the show the most articulate of the four) I do think again he's in the business for himself as a vlogger (again it's a growing industry so can't blame him).

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Agreed, Robbie has to turn up. That's his job now. But what about Moh, for example? 5 million words a season, but he has nothing to say about the boycott last night? I wonder was it agreed beforehand not to mention it, to avoid any of the nastiness we have seen in recent weeks? If so, and it's pure speculation, it would be a disservice to the idea of a channel that has the specific purpose of giving the fans a platform to discuss the immediate issues. Claude as well. All his claims that if Wenger stays, he's out. But he can't even manage it for one game. I AFTV a different thing now, in effect disconnected from the fans? Its own little bubble?

Seems now that top 4 has as good as gone the fans are turning on the club and Wenger, that can only be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Kroenke is a businessman and a pretty ruthless one, he and Wenger according to reports haven't even spoken in 2017

Wenger has made them money, but the point is he's on a downward trajectory and the longer in continues the less money he will make for the club

How long Jeff Fisher had been at the club is irrelevant, he was sacked six months after being given a contract extension after going on a losing run.

Your belief is based on a sense of negativity, you feel negative i appreciate that.....but it doesn't make you objective in your viewpoint.

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Maybe but as mentioned above he ran his American team into the ground didn't he? At the moment there's no money lost, tickets were already sold, if season ticket sales are slow perhaps it might change something.

I'll make this clear, I sincerely hope Kroenke is thinking what you say he's thinking, I'm just not convinced.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I wonder how many will stay for the lap of "honour" at the end of the Everton game. That will send another message.

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I think on that one it would be right to stay and give the likes of Alexis a clap. A bloody prudent too. Any little thing to avoid him fucking off will help. Ox stepped up in the final weeks, despite being messed around all over the shop by Wenger. Bellerin lost form but never forgot the fans. Cech is a pro through the good and bad and has fought back into form. I'd even say Theo wasn't horrible this year and we haven't seen any moaning from him over Wenger's strange campaign to ostracise him from the remainder of the season - although is that a good or a poor response? I think Kos always tries, sometime on his own. And kids like Holding and Iwobi deserve a nod for being thrown in at the deep end and managing to stay afloat and even thrive.

So it might be a bit unfair to tarnish all with the one brush.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Agreed, Robbie has to turn up. That's his job now. But what about Moh, for example? 5 million words a season, but he has nothing to say about the boycott last night? I wonder was it agreed beforehand not to mention it, to avoid any of the nastiness we have seen in recent weeks? If so, and it's pure speculation, it would be a disservice to the idea of a channel that has the specific purpose of giving the fans a platform to discuss the immediate issues. Claude as well. All his claims that if Wenger stays, he's out. But he can't even manage it for one game. I AFTV a different thing now, in effect disconnected from the fans? Its own little bubble?

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I think Claude is afraid to be on his own, otherwise the bottle of Johnny Walker and the cabinet full of temazepan starts calling for him

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think we do benefit a lot from selling tickets to tourists, we are one of the nearest clubs to central London and although it's not a reputation that is founded on anything substantial lately, we do have a reputation for good football.

Whilst I can understand Robbie Lyle himself attending, Troopz and DT?......as much as I think DT has become a great deal more coherent and less vitriolic anger in the last year (he was when they had that bell end Gary Neville on the show the most articulate of the four) I do think again he's in the business for himself as a vlogger (again it's a growing industry so can't blame him).

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If I remember correctly, the boycott was just one of the ways fans could participate. There were ways to take part on Twitter by tagging our sponsors and team, I think they also called for anyone that usually watches on Sky to switch off….for those that still wanted to go to the game, bring a banner or protest before the game. Anyone and everyone could have got involved and all done respectfully. I’ve heard DT and co say they won’t stop going to games just because of Wenger and have had to defend themselves when people have suggested they should stop going. I won’t knock them for going because they’ve been a huge part of why this has happened. I won’t knock them.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Kroenke is a businessman and a pretty ruthless one, he and Wenger according to reports haven't even spoken in 2017

Wenger has made them money, but the point is he's on a downward trajectory and the longer in continues the less money he will make for the club

How long Jeff Fisher had been at the club is irrelevant, he was sacked six months after being given a contract extension after going on a losing run.

Your belief is based on a sense of negativity, you feel negative i appreciate that.....but it doesn't make you objective in your viewpoint.

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There's another thing lurking in the background - this 2019/20 Euro Super League. This thing hasn't gone away and, if anything, is quietly gathering steam. Who will be the 4 or 5 English clubs to cement their place at the top table if that horrible idea takes form? On pure financials alone, the chavs and the gypos. On history, Utd. That leaves Liverpool (already one of the "Big 5"), the spuds (with their upwards trajectory) and us (yes, "Big 5", but also heading down). A couple of years in the Europa while the spuds play the CL - I wonder? Can Kroenke take the risk of missing that boat, or even allowing the slim possibility of missing out? Wenger has already demonstrated time and again he can't master the Euro stage. Kroneke will have all the inside information he needs on this one. Just like I'm sure he had the inside track on TV deals when he made his initial "investment". This could be the big move where national football is pillaged and ditched and 100% of the resources end up in the pockets of a few elite teams. A bit like that banker bailout and maybe even necessary to keep this ridiculous money train on the rails.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

If I remember correctly, the boycott was just one of the ways fans could participate. There were ways to take part on Twitter by tagging our sponsors and team, I think they also called for anyone that usually watches on Sky to switch off….for those that still wanted to go to the game, bring a banner or protest before the game. Anyone and everyone could have got involved and all done respectfully. I’ve heard DT and co say they won’t stop going to games just because of Wenger and have had to defend themselves when people have suggested they should stop going. I won’t knock them for going because they’ve been a huge part of why this has happened. I won’t knock them.

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Yes, that's right actually. That's why I didn't watch the game last night. Although I couldn't quite resist tuning into GW to find out what was happening. I wonder is anyone trying to measure the full reach of the protest?

I understand why the AFTV lot won't commit to boycotting every match, they are Arsenal fans after all. But this one-off match, against Sunderland? I think the absence of that lot would have sent a message. Instead we had business as usual and barely a mention. Isn't that exactly what Wenger and the board want - business as usual? And silence?

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

If I remember correctly, the boycott was just one of the ways fans could participate. There were ways to take part on Twitter by tagging our sponsors and team, I think they also called for anyone that usually watches on Sky to switch off….for those that still wanted to go to the game, bring a banner or protest before the game. Anyone and everyone could have got involved and all done respectfully. I’ve heard DT and co say they won’t stop going to games just because of Wenger and have had to defend themselves when people have suggested they should stop going. I won’t knock them for going because they’ve been a huge part of why this has happened. I won’t knock them.

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It's entirely up to them of course. Like i said in DT's case, he's also branching out by himself as a vlogger.....so people who want to look at his face as he reacts to what he's watching on the pitch......well they have that luxury.

It's still better than the expletive laden post match rants he used to do from his bleak looking bedroom.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...4976655930.jpg

Defending?

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's entirely up to them of course. Like i said in DT's case, he's also branching out by himself as a vlogger.....so people who want to look at his face as he reacts to what he's watching on the pitch......well they have that luxury.

It's still better than the expletive laden post match rants he used to do from his bleak looking bedroom.

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You could vlog about the boycott from outside the ground. It's hard to know why somebody central to the whole Wenger Out campaign passes up the opportunity to join with other fans in doing something to underpin that position and perhaps fire a more potent message at the board.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Yes, that's right actually. That's why I didn't watch the game last night. Although I couldn't quite resist tuning into GW to find out what was happening. I wonder is anyone trying to measure the full reach of the protest?

I understand why the AFTV lot won't commit to boycotting every match, they are Arsenal fans after all. But this one-off match, against Sunderland? I think the absence of that lot would have sent a message. Instead we had business as usual and barely a mention. Isn't that exactly what Wenger and the board want - business as usual? And silence?

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Some people just don’t agree with boycotting games. Some may just be proud to say they’ve gone to every game to support the club despite the shit results. I don’t know. But the purpose behind yesterday was to try and send a message the club and in a way that unites the fans. I guess by not mentioning it on AFTV it stops the debate on whether boycotts are right or wrong. I wouldn’t want anyone there to use that platform to suggest that we’re not real fans for boycotting. We don’t need to fight each other to get a message across. Everyone had a way to take part.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Was it because of the boycott? I don’t go to many games but could have gone yesterday and chose not to because I was reminded of the boycott. If it weren’t for being on GW and NQ reminding me, I would have totally forgot and gone to the game. It’s good to see the word spread and we need more of this. Thanks to various social media outlets, blogs and platforms, it’s much easier to spread the word. When talks of boycotts were proposed before, there was always the fear that non regulars would take the place of regular attenders. That wasn’t the case yesterday and breaks that fear that any action is pointless. I think most people want to do something because nobody is happy with the way things are now,

The press are running stories of Emirates being half empty and thousands boycotting the game and I’d say we’ve got the message across. Even if Wenger tries to spin it as an odd day in the week to play a game, the general consensus is that this was a boycott. It’s caught the attention of the mainstream media and let’s hope it catches on with someone that has Kroenke’s ear. Credit to all those that got the word out and started it. Heard it from Le Grove and I’ve always wished Arseblog would use their platform to make a similar statement. Not too late to. As said, if it weren’t NQ mentioning it again on here, I’d have gone.

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I just decided earlier in the season that I wasn't going to give the Club any money other than my Silver membership. I also told my friends and family that I don't want any Arsenal merchandise bought for me.

I realise the membership was dead money, but I've kept it in case the situation improves some day.

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

I just decided earlier in the season that I wasn't going to give the Club any money other than my Silver membership. I also told my friends and family that I don't want any Arsenal merchandise bought for me.

I realise the membership was dead money, but I've kept it in case the situation improves some day.

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That seems pretty sensible to me

I have never gone to more than a few games every season anyway. But this is the first season in almost 15 years that I haven't gone to watch at least one game.

The last game I went to see was January last year (FA cup game against Sunderland)

I did go to a handful at the start of the season when we were playing quite well, but after Christmas it was very obvious where things were heading. Just isn't worth the time nor money if you're not getting the enjoyment out of it anymore. Plus other priorities have arised for myself personally so the club can most certainly take a back seat.

They can take my Silver money no problem, that's an investment for the future, but I can't imagine I'll be attending any games next season if we don't have a new manager.

Well said.

Speaking of which....I expected to get on to silver years ago and still haven't!

Arsenal showed a good game. Please, applaud them. In the summer they should change something in game

This game dragged on a bit.

WengerTime :bow:

I think this is my new favourite first post by the way :lol: