Willock you pillock :doh:
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Willock you pillock :doh:
Nkeiteh has a similar style to Alex Hunter.
Macey trying to be in several places at once there. Shambolic defending again from a simple up and over.
Theo you fucking berk! How difficult was it to not be offside there?
Our CB is on the edge of the opposition box again :haha:
Don't be so racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
lol Eddie heads straight for the corner instead of trying another goal.
Only 18 and yet he's more adult than some of the clowns we have in the team.
FT!!
YES!
FT 2-1
Wenger OUT!
Nketiah :bow:
He's like a black Thierry Henry.
Who or what is a Nketiah?
Theo :bow:
Like the transgender Boy George.
He's the kid who bailed Wenger's arse out of the latest hole he dug for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Another step towards world domination. The first team to beat Norwich in the CCup this season.
NK > NQ
NK:bow:
Luckiest manager in football, somehow doesn't matter how much he messes up someone always saves his bacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If the guy didn't earn so much already I'd tell him the play the lottery, he might come 4th
It doesn’t work like that.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Wenger was on his way to the joke bank...Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Just throwing this out there but if something keeps on happening then it probably isn't luck.
He planned to bring on Eddie with 5 mins to go so the kid could shovel him out of the latest pit he dug for himself and leapt into headfirst? He's a cool customer, this Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
He should have made a different sub which knocked us out.
:lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Or picked a different team.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
Someone said maybe he should have played a similar team to the weekend, there's something called momentum in football, we'd won 5-2, need a good run of wins and another good one would have done wonders for confidence, with Swansea at the weekend it would have been perfect.
Momentum well and truly stopped now though.
You're implying he can distinguish between clear choices and random lucky dips. But anyway, what he should have done is fuck the hell off in the summer after a decade of failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
He planned to win the game. He did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
He might have got the rub of the green on this occasion, other games he will have lost unluckily.
Over time that is how probability works as you well know.
After 7 years of which you were quite happy for him to get a new contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Almost like things aren't as black and white as you (pretend to) believe
HE won the game? :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
There's no hope for you Letters. None at all.
So you realise what the odds are of an 18 year old kid coming on with 5 minutes to go and doing that again?
The substitution was a last roll of the dice following the consequences of a totally fucked up team selection, again, with totally fucked up tactics, again, that saw us get outplayed by Norwich on our own patch. These are the facts.
The kid, of course, did great. But to allow one ounce of credit for Wenger after his shitty, shitty personal performance, again, is beyond the pale.
People say you always pitch up to defend the man who can no longer be defended. They are wrong. Sure, you always pitch up. But just when they think there's no possible defence for Wenger, you dig deep and come up with impeccable bullshit.
:haha:
Back you come with the same old lie, even though we've been through this several times. So dishonest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
He bought Ozil. He bought Alexis. On that basis and on that basis alone I said fine, if that's the way he intends to keep going then good, that's what we need to do. FINALLY! Because it took the stupid git long enough.
Of course it was a false dawn. We competed for precisely zero titles and we avoided humiliation in precisely zero CLs.
So sure. He fucked up. Show me the evidence and the scorelines and the tables to the contrary.
Your fucked up argument goes that if anyone approves of anything Wenger does then that makes you pro-Wenger. Therefore you can't be anti-Wenger. Weren't you the one accusing people of operating in black and white?
Then, when people criticise the cunt you jump in and accuse them of never giving him credit for anything. More lies. It's what you do.
You get so pissed when people criticise your dad. Don't you?
He is responsible for results, good or bad,Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
And once again you lie about me defending him, all I'm doing is arguing against the bullshit that he's the "luckiest manager in football". That's bollocks, you know it's bollocks.
He's lucky to be in a position where the board care more about profits than results I guess, but in terms of results he's no luckier or unluckier than anyone else who has been at a club for a decent amount of time. Sometimes he'll get lucky in a game and we'll get a result we didn't deserve, other times we'll deserve to win and the referee or sheer dumb bad luck will conspire to deny us. Over time both will happen to any manager.
It's not good luck that we've won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, it's not bad luck that we've failed to challenge for bigger prizes that we should be challenging for.
You are lying about it being a decade of failure. You don't believe that. Firstly because if you did then you wouldn't have approved of the new contract a few years ago after which you now claim was 7 years of failure.Quote:
Back you come with the same old lie, even though we've been through this several times. So dishonest.
Secondly because I said how I saw Wenger's time with us in 3 phases:
1) Glory years
2) Time of steadying the ship during the stadium move when finances were tight and the billionaires were having the big impact
3) Now, when we have the money to compete and are failing to.
You agreed. So you don't think it's been a decade of failure because phase 3 didn't start 10 years ago, you are back-dating your views. Yes, there were failings in that time- as there were in the glory years actually, his weak points have always been evident, looking back - but IMO it wasn't a complete car crash and he got a fair amount right during that time.
No, I get irritated when people talk bollox. "He's the luckiest manager in football". "It doesn't matter how we do, he will never get fired". "We have an average squad". "He's the worst manager in football".Quote:
You get so pissed when people criticise your dad. Don't you?
In terms of results he's neither luckier, in general, or unluckier than any other manager.
In terms of his position, the board clearly care more about money than results but those things are correlated, if the results get so bad the money stops rolling in then they'll remove him.
We clearly have a far above average squad and there are obviously much worse managers around.
If you believe these things you're an idiot. If you don't you're a liar. Pick one.
O M G :(
Fine. Wenger is above average and not the luckiest manager alive.
Jesus. If you need it that badly then have it.
But I did notice you doubling down with that lie about me agreeing with your assessment of the middle period of Wenger's reign and his safe stewardship and general wonderfulness. Like I said, it looked like the cock was finally starting to stock the team for a challenge. But this summer we'll experience Wenger's biggest failure yet as the players who were supposed to drive that challenge escape L'Genius' clutches. So when his renaissance is in fact his greatest setback then sure, he's been a fuck-up for a decade. But okay, an above average fuck-up and not the luckiest fuck-up alive.
It's not what I need. This is a messageboard for debating stuff. If I think someone is taking bollox then I'll say so, you are free to do the same.
Honestly what is the point of this place if that doesn't happen?
Are you saying that there wasn't a post I made about the three phases of Wenger's time with us to which you responded "There's a problem with that post. The problem is I agree with it"?
It wasn't that long ago so I'm sure you haven't forgotten. And it's interesting you accuse me of lying in the same sentence as you saying that my assessment of that is "general wondefulness", itself a lie when my post above makes it clear what I think of that phase with the failings which occurred in that time - and in all phases of his time with us actually.
Are you actually able to debate without resorting to hyperbole and nonsense? I think you are, I see glimpses of it. But too often you resort to straw men arguments.
Oh, so you do know the difference between a lie and the truth then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
And your memory works too, so you'll know that everything I said was underpinned, in entirety, by the requirement to continue what was seen at the time as signs of progress. NOT signs of success, far from it. But steps in the right direction. A bit like a drunk finally nailing the keyhole with one last desperate lunge, it's better that what went before, right? You then expect the drunk to go to bed and sober up. But if he stumbles in and, say, allows all the contracts to run down, well fuck that, there's no hope for the geezer.
You're trying to turn, "Okay, this looks better, let's give him one more chance", into some sort of acknowledgement of success so you can then deny the fact the guy has been a fuck-up for a decade or more. And because you clearly know the difference between a lie and the truth, well there you are.
If we're sitting here today with Vidal and Draxler already in the bag, celebrating the arrival of Lemar, and we're two points off the top and the media is wondering just who the hell will win the gypo match because there's just no dividing these teams, not now that Wenger has found a settled eleven and has deployed the right tactics - it's STILL not success but it's massive progress on the way to success. And something to get behind.
Where are we though? With this supposedly above average, not a lucky or unlucky manager? What has ACTUALLY happened?
And you think that's not a total fuck-up?
So we disagree, but stop trying to sign me up for your Wenger camp. I'm not interested.
He's a lucky manager no doubt about it, the time the Spurs squad got ill and he nabbed 4th place, the collapses of other teams when they were cruising and he ended up higher than he deserved, the results he scrapes more than not despite average performances because one player pops up with a goal, the fact he gets free reign to do as he pleases with no real implications for failure, being offered a new contract with pay rise despite a car crash season, the fact he gets away with blaming fans with little comeback, stumbling across solutions to problem areas due to injuries with players he would never usually play and the list goes on.
No doubt about it he's the luckiest manager in football, no other manager gets this kind of luck, you might not like to accept it Letters but those are all things that have happened.
As for the middle phase, frankly I was never happy with his performance then either, both in terms of what was happening on the pitch, where he spent our money and his tactics/style of play, for me it was a failure, especially considering he invested so much time and money in the youth policy (he started workng on this 10 years before) and it never delivered anything, as Mourinho once said it would be nice to be able to pay kids and not have to worry about winning anything!
The only successful time was the early years which admittedly were amazing, but it's been downhill from there, boring football, mistake after mistake, poor signings, injuries galore, thrashing after thrashing. Mr Wenger has indeed heralded a new era, an era where getting thrashed regularly is now acceptable and where 6-1 and 10-2 beatings can be swept under the carpet like they never happened. As I said before see how often we got thrashed before he arrived, almost never!
When you consider everything he comes with (not just the football) he is indeed an awful manager, I'd happily erase all of the last 12 years of his reign, I've not enjoyed any of it.
Had that happened the other way around there is no way you would have regarded that as Wenger being unlucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
You are surely self-aware enough to know that is true.
And this is the trouble with what you're saying. Because you have this little vendetta against Wenger you regard anything fortuitous as him being "lucky" and anything when things don't go our way as him being incompetent.
The actual truth is yes, there are times when we have been lucky and times when we've been unlucky. Over a period of 20 years at a club it would be pretty easy to cherry pick either. Bergkamp missing a penalty when scoring would have beaten Utd might well have carried us to the Double, instead Utd win the treble, the Eduardo leg break when we were looking like we could win the title. I'm sure there are others, over that period of time there will be loads you could pick on either side. There is no magic power that makes him keep ON being lucky, you're just cherry picking things.
I think this is more reasonable, he has rather fallen on his feet with our current board, but as I keep explaining it isn't that there aren't implications for failing, it's that he isn't failing by their standards.Quote:
the fact he gets free reign to do as he pleases with no real implications for failure
So long as the money keeps rolling in, and Wenger has always done enough to ensure that, he's succeeding by their standards. Like any employee he has to meet his bosses criteria for success and he has. It is unfortunate that those criteria are not aligned with the fans expectations.
No, but then you are a whiner. Were you a Utd fan you'd be one of the people moaning about Ferguson when they had a couple of (by his standards) bad seasons under him. Most of that middle period we were still playing great football, it's only in more recent years it's become more tedious.Quote:
As for the middle phase, frankly I was never happy with his performance then either
Quite amused that you're still standing by the "awful manager" and presumably "average squad" thing when the results quite clearly show both to be bullshit. If we have an awful manager then to keep in the top 4 till last season and win 3 FA Cups in 4 years then we must have an amazing squad. And if our squad really is average then we must have a pretty good manager to do that. We simply can't have both. And no, squad size does not account for that because depth is part of how you assess squad strength.
Really?Quote:
I'd happily erase all of the last 12 years of his reign, I've not enjoyed any of it.
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=2857&page=63