Arsenal v Benfica, 17:55 GMT (25/02, BT Sport 1)

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Originally Posted by IBK

I agree with many of your points, and particularly the fact that we need to continue to be patient. But its the feeling that our continued weak points - lack of concentration; playng to the opposition's strengths and lack of game management - that takes the shine off.

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I seem to remember Klopp taking a kicking for two years until (with money) he was able to fashion a winning team.

A team that is now getting arse fucked every week.

We will be hit and miss for a long while yet. We either back inexperice and youth, or we change our manager routinely and stay where we are. Our owners only care that we retain our assets, they are only concerned with keeping the status quo. As long as we’re always an investment, they care not if we scrape survival, as we’re good stock.

Keep the faith, because with out Arteta, who actually cares, we’ll be another journeyman manager down the line with fuck all pride left in the tank.

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Originally Posted by LDG

I don’t get this attitude.

Am I the only one who can see something good at work begind the scenes? This team has a shape. We just have too much dead weight, and that isn’t this managers fault.

Wenger left us in a real fucking mess, and we all knew (and openly accepted) that would get worse before it got better. The club chose Emery, who actually made things even worse, with zero fucking shape, idea, or direction.

At least Arteta has gone with youth and ridded the club of Mustafi, Ozil, Kolasniac etc...we can’t sell everyone! The shitfest this club has been in will take years to solve...we have fuck all investment, fuck all money coming in and fuck all to work with but youth.

We’ve had that cunt agent raping the club with deals above the managers head for shit like Willian and Luiz. But as a manager you need to go to experience sometimes, even if its shit.

He’s a good manager. He needs time and patience. Just fucking accept we aren’t goong to win the league for a good while. We could get any top manager in, but without patience or money, they’ll be fucked too.

Just appreciate there is more shape to this side than there has been for a long time.

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Arteta was directly responsible for bringing in dead weight in the shape of Willian - that wasn't over his head, he and Edu wanted him.

he also ignored our young players, particularly ESR, until he literally had no choice but to play them and then was forced to see how good they are.

now he's doing the opposite and thrashing ESR into the ground.

i agree when the team plays well it looks very good but Arteta can't seem to recognise the reasons for that, instead he makes baffling decisions like at the weekend playing Saka and Pepe on the wrong sides of the pitch.

he also sticks with a disaster area like Luiz (who nearly gave away a goal tonight) as a first choice defender when we have a perfectly good CB in Mari we could play instead

he's a rookie making a lot of mistakes while he learns and he should have done so at a smaller club not Arsenal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Wenger left us in a real fucking mess, and we all knew (and openly accepted) that would get worse before it got better. The club chose Emery, who actually made things even worse, with zero fucking shape, idea, or direction.

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See. There's no way of me replying to this without the usual suspects going on about how I can't bear to see Wenger criticised or that I wish he was still our manager or... :blah:

But did he leave us in a mess? Really? The season after Wenger left we finished 5th on 70 points. But for a Wengeresque collapse we'd have easily have finished top 4. And we got to the Europa League final. It wasn't an amazing season but it looked like a "steady the ship" one and a platform to build on. That's what the squad Wenger left us with did, was that really so awful?

It was only after that when things started to go seriously wrong.

And some people on here were arguing the exact opposite, that any idiot would come in and immediately do better than Wenger, so inept was he.
NQ said that any new manager should be sacked if we weren't challenging for the title in a couple of seasons :shrug:

Overall, I agree that Arteta is improving things and it does feel like we are more of a team now. We are nowhere near challenging, we're no t that near top 4. But I think Arteta deserves some time to sort things out.

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Originally Posted by Letters

See. There's no way of me replying to this without the usual suspects going on about how I can't bear to see Wenger criticised or that I wish he was still our manager or... :blah:

But did he leave us in a mess? Really? The season after Wenger left we finished 5th on 70 points. But for a Wengeresque collapse we'd have easily have finished top 4. And we got to the Europa League final. It wasn't an amazing season but it looked like a "steady the ship" one and a platform to build on. That's what the squad Wenger left us with did, was that really so awful?

It was only after that when things started to go seriously wrong.

And some people on here were arguing the exact opposite, that any idiot would come in and immediately do better than Wenger, so inept was he.
NQ said that any new manager should be sacked if we weren't challenging for the title in a couple of seasons :shrug:

Overall, I agree that Arteta is improving things and it does feel like we are more of a team now. We are nowhere near challenging, we're no t that near top 4. But I think Arteta deserves some time to sort things out.

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

It's like a zombie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDG

I seem to remember Klopp taking a kicking for two years until (with money) he was able to fashion a winning team.

A team that is now getting arse fucked every week.

We will be hit and miss for a long while yet. We either back inexperice and youth, or we change our manager routinely and stay where we are. Our owners only care that we retain our assets, they are only concerned with keeping the status quo. As long as we’re always an investment, they care not if we scrape survival, as we’re good stock.

Keep the faith, because with out Arteta, who actually cares, we’ll be another journeyman manager down the line with fuck all pride left in the tank.

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A long while yet - but the solution is staring them in the face. Take the pain, build with youth. But with all that money at stake, it's so much easier to run to the averages and hope for the best. Which is how I characterise Arteta's spree with us to date.

He was supposed to be a young, inexperienced manager with fresh ideas. He's behaving like he's already one of the club.

Xhaka and ElNonsene in midfield against the gypos? Sacking right there. Inevitability is not a prediction.

See? :lol:

No attempt at a response, just low effort trolling.
Ah well.

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Originally Posted by Letters

See. There's no way of me replying to this without the usual suspects going on about how I can't bear to see Wenger criticised or that I wish he was still our manager or... :blah:

But did he leave us in a mess? Really? The season after Wenger left we finished 5th on 70 points. But for a Wengeresque collapse we'd have easily have finished top 4. And we got to the Europa League final. It wasn't an amazing season but it looked like a "steady the ship" one and a platform to build on. That's what the squad Wenger left us with did, was that really so awful?

It was only after that when things started to go seriously wrong.

And some people on here were arguing the exact opposite, that any idiot would come in and immediately do better than Wenger, so inept was he.
NQ said that any new manager should be sacked if we weren't challenging for the title in a couple of seasons :shrug:

Overall, I agree that Arteta is improving things and it does feel like we are more of a team now. We are nowhere near challenging, we're no t that near top 4. But I think Arteta deserves some time to sort things out.

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The truth with Wenger is that he did not leave our club in a mess - directly. The 'mess' was a result of his longevity and the fact that he ended up with an unparallelled level of influence and control that was bound to create a power vaccuum when he left (something that if we are honest probably influenced his decision to stay on beyond his managerial sell by date). But this was principally the fault of the owners/board, not Wenger, and he did nothing actively to harm the club - quite the opposite in fact.

Like you I tire of this narrative against Wenger.

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Originally Posted by IBK

The truth with Wenger is that he did not leave our club in a mess - directly. The 'mess' was a result of his longevity and the fact that he ended up with an unparallelled level of influence and control that was bound to create a power vaccuum when he left (something that if we are honest probably influenced his decision to stay on beyond his managerial sell by date). But this was principally the fault of the owners/board, not Wenger, and he did nothing actively to harm the club - quite the opposite in fact.

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Right. He stayed too long, but the season before he left we won the FA Cup, the season after he left I've talked about.
I don't think the squad he left us with was so terrible. It wasn't that close to a title challenge but it seemed liked a reasonable base to build on.
And yes, he had far too much power at the club which made him difficult to replace - he couldn't just be replaced by a single person.

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Like you I tire of this narrative against Wenger.

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What I tire off is the extremes of opinion and the straw manning.
You either have to believe that <manager/player> is amazing or terrible. If you don't believe the latter then you must believe the former.
There's no nuance or shades of grey with some people. Ah well!

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Originally Posted by Letters

Right. He stayed too long, but the season before he left we won the FA Cup, the season after he left I've talked about.
I don't think the squad he left us with was so terrible. It wasn't that close to a title challenge but it seemed liked a reasonable base to build on.
And yes, he had far too much power at the club which made him difficult to replace - he couldn't just be replaced by a single person.



What I tire off is the extremes of opinion and the straw manning.
You either have to believe that <manager/player> is amazing or terrible. If you don't believe the latter then you must believe the former.
There's no nuance or shades of grey with some people. Ah well!

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Agreed - its the narrative that Wenger directly damaged the cub that I don't like. He stayed too long for sure, but the aftermarth is circumstance rather than anything else.