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It's a fair point that we pretty much HAD to score first, and I did think after we'd not done so after about 20 mins we were in trouble, having thrown all we could at them but not found the back of the net
For me the most telling part of that second game was Saka putting a couple of great crosses into the box, only for there to be nobody there for the tap-in - you could see what he thought after the second one, it was what we were all thinking - if only we had a striker...
We had a record going for about 16 months in which if we scored first we wouldn’t lose at a minimum, that ended against Bournemouth (although arguably would still be going if the Evanilson goal had been chalked off)
I tend to agree with the guy when he says, signing a striker would solve a lot of our problems but not all. The XG in both legs says less about the number of chances we created, but the kind of chances that would be expected to lead to a goal.
We don’t create enough clear cut chances in games and we don’t put away the chances we do create
The tactical game we played over two legs reduced our chances of playing into their hands but when you’re dealing with ruthless players over two legs they can score three goals from low XG chances
Signing a striker is an imperative, but I think signing an attacking midfielder is also a very high priority. Not just someone with pace and strength but the footballing brain to see a pass, to pull players out of position etc. That shouldn’t be dependent on what happens with Odegaard, we need that in any event. We need more creativity in the team
Sure, it's never going to be a silver bullet but it's the most glaring absence - I think we need two strikers, a star one and a backup, plus the midfielder you talk about
Fully agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
XG is just a made up thing by somebody on a laptop in his mum's basement, isn't it? I mean it's not actually real or relevant? It's just another thing the shitty pundits can fill the air with. We easily created enough chances to smash PSG. We just didn't take them. Even Saka didn't take his chances. It's actually unforgivable. It's difficult to carve out a chance against many teams, so when you do surely that's when your extra talent shines through? It'd be like Fischer finally wearing down Igor Russianbloke and when the big mistakes comes, Fischer forgets how to play chess. I can't think of another sport where the top talent is so unaccomplished, relatively speaking. Not saying I could stroll on and play - unless I was covering for Sterling - but how many times have our players shit the bed in those critical moments where the money we pay for them has to be earned? That's not a measurement of XG, that's some sort of psychological problem. I mean Saka's chipped penalty against Madrid FFS. That's just crazy. That's a moment wher you get the job done, no frills, blast it in the net. To even consider doing otherwise hints at serious problems in the squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I'm telling you, we have a kid at the academy that could do a way better job than an Eddie or a Havertz - I can never remember his bloody name. But he's a very direct and confident kid who could play backup and we wouldn't have to eff around keeping egos pampered. Gyokeres with the shirt, the kid on rest days, it'd work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I bet we get Sesko.
A rare :gp: from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
xG is bollocks - at best it's a vague indicator but nowhere near as significant as some make it out to be.
And while I'm not on board with your thesis about modern footballers being useless compared to the good old days where they had a pint at half time, I've always thought that footballers are largely incompetent compared with other sports. How can you be a professional footballer and not be able to hit the target pretty much every time? How can you not be able to deliver a corner reliably? Some of them can, but not as many as you'd expect given it's their job and they practice every day.
EDIT: When Henry was through on goal you pretty much knew it was game over for the 'keeper. I wouldn't be confident with any of this lot. And one issue highlighted in the video above is we don't create enough clear chances anyway. Multiple times on Wednesday PSG broke forward and I thought "shit, we're in trouble here". I don't think we did that to them once. It's all slow build up play, sideways, sideways, back, sideways, sideways, forward...sideways, sideways, back...FFS!
This season we’ve looked overcoached and excessively reliant on set pieces and physicality. Whatever creativity that was in the team has gone and we’re left with a group of players lacking in any individuality and spark. Odegaard’s lack of courage in advanced positions is perhaps the biggest factor in why our football has gone to shit.
Just hated this season and can’t wait to see the back of it. League campaign never got going, weird refereeing decisions, ridiculous injuries and shit football. Embarrassing cup exits as well to cap it off.
The CL run has to be seen as a positive and something to build on at least. Rice’s freekicks will live long in the memory but it also makes me wonder if we would have even broken the deadlock without that miracle.
Good post, agree with pretty much all of it, alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I listened to a pod yesterday where Adrian Clarke said that Arteta needs to learn in-game management, how to change things and use subs better, I totally agree, he almost always makes like-for-like changes or takes off an attacker and brings on a defemder to save a 1-0 lead, not good enough for someone who's paid millions
Or and the referee decisions weren't so much weird as blantantly biased
Hated the way the defence suddenly seemed shaky at the end. Was consoling myself with, oh well, at least the defence is sorted. The Saliba goes on holiday and Raya starts trying to pinch the 9 shirt. And Timber fell off a cliff and that one positive started drifting away to merge with all the other uncertainties. It's hard to find any progress that has been made this season. MLS, Ethan. But if Arteta applies his magic touch they'll both be tipping and tapping with the best of them by next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
https://x.com/dailyafc/status/192163...k_DvSqUkaQFrjw
Peter Schmeichel is correct
I've seen the Arteta interview, I don't like to use the word 'weird' as it's a bit judgemental but he certainly seems out of sorts and half-mumbling to himself, almost like a drunk
I do think after this season he needs to go for some long walks in nature and try to chill out before it all gets going again in summer - he also probably needs some counselling to get his head straight
No, we are not. When Arteta took over we were a shambles with CL participation a distant dream, and the idea challenging for the league laughable. We will now (most likely) finish the league in 2nd for the 3rd year running and have made the last four in the CL. Square one this ain't.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
We have progressed in the CL and regressed a bit in the league this season, but IMO anyone who thinks that this team with a few judicious additions is incapable of challenging for silverware is letting the undoubted disappointment (of allowing our failure to stop Liverpool walking a league that we could have been expected to win without Citeh being their usual imperious selves) to clould their judgment hugely.
The way I see it - Arteta has proved his coaching credentials, but also shown blind spots when it comes to squad building and player loading. The latter (together with some luck) has been Slot's super power.
The reason I think most fans want to give Arteta another season (very sensible post as always, Selassie) is that neither our manager nor the club can fail to see where we have gone wrong, and must surely address that this Summer and going into next season. If not - then this project will be a bust. But we are not there yet.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Not entirely sure about the 'manager' bit - Arteta may see some of it (though I feel like he won't take his own share of the blame internally) but not all, not unless as i say above he takes some genuine steps to refresh his mind and outlookQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Yeah. Managers do chat a lot of shit of course but the fact he said that we were the best team in the CL semi-finals despite losing both games shows a level of delusion which is...troubling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
https://telegrafi.com/wp-content/upl...al-780x439.jpg
Arsenal fans on Twitter clutching their pearls over the “disrespectful” banners from Liverpool
Oh fucking get over yourselves you bunch of pansies, Arteta isn’t the Messiah. Liverpool owe us zero respect and to repeat what I said the other week, we owe them zero respect
This is what happens when you get clubs that are competing (or at least should be) for the top prizes
I dunno. I sort of agree with you with a side dish of you can be a bad loser and you can definitely be a bad winner.
There is such a thing as showing a bit of class. Arsenal and Liverpool aren't particularly rivals so why be pricks about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I realise you hate Arteta but siding with Liverpool scum who boo a homegrown player who's helped them win multiple trophies and simply wants to expand his horizons is much more pathetic
as is scousers spending their hard-earned dole money/stolen-goods profits on crap like this - it's like spuds wanting Citeh to win last season, they're thinking more about other teams than their own
football should be about celebrating the positive - why not a banner saying 'thanks Trent for all you've done for us'?
wouldn't that be better?
Not sure I read HCZ's post as siding with Liverpool fans per se - as opposed to dismissing the outrage about Liverpool fans' petty banners. I think that we shouldn't care less about it. Plus Liverpool fans have done a pretty good job of showing their lack of class re TAA. I tend to agree with what Letters has said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Can you go back to the post and check to see where I referenced Trent Alexander Arnold and made any comment about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I’d hate to think I’d slipped it in somewhere and forgot
Otherwise, I’d hate to think you’ve conflated two separate things in order to have an argument
Gosh someone gets itQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Yes you’re absolutely right. And yes I think booing TAA was petty and ungrateful (I’ve never much rated him to begin with so I wouldn’t be that fussed about him leaving if I was a Liverpool fan).
On one hand, we were very vocal in regards to Samir Nasri (in the start of the 2011/2012 season he played two league games for us before joining City) we were chanting “Samir you’re a cunt”. Which I think was more specifically about going to City, but there was certainly not the animosity towards Vieira or Henry when they went to Juventus and Barcelona respectively.
Liverpool fans say it’s the circumstances under which he is leaving, which he engineered. Maybe but this guy has won two league titles and a champions league with you….he really owes you fuck all.
On top of that I think Banter is part of what makes football, Liverpool and Arsenal are two clubs vying at the top…it only makes sense that their fan bases should have digs at each other. What I think about Arteta has no bearing on that view
I think there’s always a line. I would not condone for example our fans making chants about Hillsborough, because innocent people died through no fault of their own.
I feel the same about the Munich air disaster
But calling them bin dippers or chanting “sign on” is to my mind fair game
I don't think there's any basis to draw conclusions regarding Arteta accepting responsibility internally. If we make the same mistakes next season as we have done this, then there may be more validity to your view, but I think this is unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
All managers make mistakes. I am not downplaying Arteta's failure to invest in our forward line or overloading his players, but in terms of system; playing style or individual decisions during matches, there isn't a manager on earth that gets it right 100% of the time. Again, we do need (I think) to acknowledge that our disappointment in how the league has gone this season can result in a skewed view of our manager's shortcomings.
Noone was arguing in the second half of last season (when we scored a record number of goals) that Arteta's system was ineffective. I suspect that had even 2 of Havertz; Saka and Jesus stayed fit, we would have been much closer to winning the league. Arteta clearly acknowledged the need for a striker in January - and we don't have any clear idea of the club dynamics that prevented us from bringing someone in. If's but's and maybe's perhaps - but these are fine margins. We can criticise our manager sure, but reaching the conclusion that he can neither see, nor address our shortcomings this season is, for me, precipitous to say the least.
One final point that I found quite interesting. Here is the EPL player list for most minutes played this season https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/prem...wettbewerb/GB1
Aside from Raya, we don't have a single player before Saliba at 28, and our next entry is Rice, coming in at...no. 68! Suprising stuff given the prevailing view about over use of our players.
We are rivals. If we were rivals with City and United, it makes no sense to say we aren’t rivals with LiverpoolQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I think there has been a long standing respect between our two sides which goes back to the night of May 26th 1989 where our players brought bouquets of flowers to the supporters because of the almost unfathomable loss they’d gone through six weeks earlier (it was certain that people in the ground that night had either lost friends and loved ones, or knew people that had). It was the right thing to do, because in instances like this there are things more important than football.
Everton fans hate Liverpool football club but similarly I’ve seen in regards to Hillsborough they are one city (I went to an Everton game years ago and saw Trevor Hicks on stage outside Goodison park, it was a few months after the Bishop of Liverpool’s enquiry into Hillsborough) and he got total support and applause from the Everton supporting crowd.
But on match day in the derby, it’s banter and insults.
So fans calling a banner like that disrespectful seems thin skinned and speaks to me of a borderline messianic regard some of our fans hold Arteta in.
And if rival fans had made fun of Wenger even at his pomp, I wouldn’t have cared one jot
Nah - you're overreaching with this :police:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I think you are allowing your view of Arteta to colour an admittedly thin skinned response to a percived slur on our club, not one that specifically defends our manager.
No because it’s not a binaryQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
I think despite an opinion I hold about Arteta as a person which I think almost everyone here regards as obscurantist, I certainly don’t think anyone here holds a messianic view of him
But, if you look at social media in general there are those who equate being critical of Arteta with hating Arsenal (even with supporters of Arsenal). They talk about him as though he walks on water. And the word “disrespectful” comes across as “blasphemous” in that context.
I also think they don’t like the fact that it’s the truth, and it will remain the truth until Arteta wins something big
If someone says online “Have faith in Mikel” I’d think they should be psychiatrically evaluated. But that’s not because it’s Arteta, I’m instinctively repelled by the idea that one should defer doubt and misgivings and should place faith in anyone or anything for that matter.
No one is deserving of that
We are vying for top spot at the moment so in that sense, yes. But it's not the intensity we had with Utd back in the day where the duopoly meant it all got quite nasty. And it's not a local rivalry like with Spurs - they aren't rivals at all in terms of the level of the clubs, but there's the local derby and the history there.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Most of the time with Liverpool I'm fairly indifferent to them.
Right. So why be a prick about the fact they've won the title this year. I know that football fans are, in general, bloody idiots. But going to the effort of making banners. I mean, it's not going to keep me up at night. Just seems like unnecessary twattery. I guess it's the era we're living in where everything is now about trolling and creating memes.Quote:
I think there has been a long standing respect between our two sides which goes back to the night of May 26th 1989 where our players brought bouquets of flowers to the supporters because of the almost unfathomable loss they’d gone through six weeks earlier
Rightly or wrongly they are responding to the fact that a lot of our fans have said that PGMOL have handed Liverpool the title (a claim so outlandish that even I wouldn’t make).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Also a rivalry doesn’t need to be a duopoly for two sets of fans to get at each other. Liverpool were going for the title last season, I didn’t think they would this season because I think Klopp got more out of those players than they were capable of. But I didn’t account for Salah having a god mode season or Arsenal and City both having trouble.
That said whilst I think they won’t retain the title, I think they will challenge to retain it, therefore in going for what we are going for…it makes them rivals.
And digging at us, in a way that’s only nasty if you’ve stopped worshipping God and started worshipping a 43 year old Basque Spaniard….is part of that.
In the recent past, both clubs have rarely challenged at the same time…therefore we want to think that relations between the fan bases can only ever be cordial. I’m not advocating for us kicking the shit out of each other, but a bit of mutual abuse is good for the game imo
Social media has created all these faux rivalries in the name of memes, trolling and banter. It’s all about point scoring and petty online bragging rights.
Honestly, I doubt seriously that the reaction to the Liverpool fans equates to those reacting holding a messianistic view of Arteta. It's far more likely to be a general reaction to a perceived slur on our club.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
The thing is, if i were a Liverpool fan would I make the effort to make such a banner? No because even without the responsibility of children I’ve got better ways to spend my time (and that includes wasting my time here :lol:)
I don’t even disagree with your claim that it’s Twattery.
But Twattery is fair game, and more so I don’t want Liverpool fans to like us or our club. I would hope very much that by this time next season that they absolutely hate us for thwarting their ambitions
I think for many fans you’re absolutely rightQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
For others it’s like how people respond when you attack their favourite politician (Farage, Corbyn, Trump etc) where by attacking the person they’ve made a tin god out of, you’re attacking them
You’re not wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
This. It's a sign of the times that people get so hot under the collar (usually online) at percieved slights. Best way to react to football trolling is to beat teams on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Well as usual you're diverting, but my point was ofc you were taking the side of Liverpool fans, whose side souldn't be taken by other fans, and by mentioning their disgraceful behaviour re TAA I was illustrating why (but you know all that)Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
where you say 'Arteta isn’t the Messiah' it gives away your motivation for choosing to pro-actively - and very heavily - put down Arsenal fans when there's a million other things you could post about
Which is exactly my pointQuote:
Originally Posted by IBK
It's not far off though, there's a lot of cause and effect involvedQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
the main reasons we didn't win the title are:
- Disgraceful refereeing decisions, only made against us and no other club
- injuries, which due to the above were partly down to having to play with ten men and then not being rotated enough because of suspensions etc
- Arteta's cautious tactics (e.g. Brighton at home, Citeh away, arguably even Liverpool on Sunday) losing us points (though again after our being reduced to 10 by mostly bad decisions - not Liverpool though)
- Arteta failing to prioritise a striker last summer (which wouldn't have been so damaging if not for the injuries, which again were in part caused by the decisions)
- Arteta failing to prioritise a striker in January (ditto)
- Arteta not making full use of his squad (ditto)
So the bad decisions fed into our being fundamentatlly weak due to Arteta's leaving us vulnerable - in other words he took chances and was found out - but if we don't get any of those silly cards he might not have been found out, or not to the same extent
So imagine you’re saying all that to a Liverpool fan, and what they are hearing is that you think that it’s more that Arsenal were unfairly treated than Liverpool deserved to win the title. Maybe that’s not what you’re saying but that’s how it’s understood…that quite possibly might make you feel resentment, and we aren’t all as philosophical as Wenger when Ferguson said that United were the best team in a footballing sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Some may brush it off, so might think “get fucked you bunch of sore losers”