When will Arteta be sacked by

I understand the need for a long term plan but I also don’t think it’s a given that incremental “progress” will take us to where we want to be. Timing is everything and sometimes you need to grab an opportunity if it presents itself.

Emery finished 5th in his first season when we should have finished 4th, that was still better than Wengers final year so I guess we saw that as progress, then it all fell off a cliff 6 months later and took us 2 years to recover.

There were times with Wenger when we flirted with a title challenge only to look completely inept the following season. Things can change very quickly, especially as everyone has money now, everyone has the scouting etc. The top 2 are in a league of their own but for the rest of us it’s never been more competitive.

So the question is. What is the purpose, the plan for this club beyond existing on the periphery of greatness. Are we ever going to compete. Do we even want to compete at the highest level. The current management of Arsenal is just stringing the fans along. The manager is the most important ingredient in any club. Arteta does not convince me at all

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Originally Posted by Letters

It seems vanishingly unlikely we will lose 8 in a row

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Letters' first :gp: since Coney was born.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I understand the need for a long term plan but I also don’t think it’s a given that incremental “progress” will take us to where we want to be. Timing is everything and sometimes you need to grab an opportunity if it presents itself.

Emery finished 5th in his first season when we should have finished 4th, that was still better than Wengers final year so I guess we saw that as progress, then it all fell off a cliff 6 months later and took us 2 years to recover.

There were times with Wenger when we flirted with a title challenge only to look completely inept the following season. Things can change very quickly, especially as everyone has money now, everyone has the scouting etc. The top 2 are in a league of their own but for the rest of us it’s never been more competitive.

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I feel that there is an issue of context in the way Arteta is being judged. This is not to deny that there are question marks over his managerial capabilities, but while some argue that in Arteta the club is settling for mediocrity there is very much an alterantive way of looking at things.

First, who are we judging him alongside? Currently we are sitting in 4th place - behind clubs managed by 3 of the most successful and well regarded coaches in world football, and employed by clubs with either infinitely more resources than ours (at least until recently in Chelsea's case), or reaping the benefits of several years of inch perfect club and on pitch management and investment and sustained success in Liverpool's case. Are we really expecting that following years of turmoil and under-achievement Arsenal would attract a Klopp or a Guardiola? Take that expectation out of the equation, and our rookie manager has not done too badly over his less than 2 1/2 years in charge. If we want to compare 'like for like' with a similar sized club with similar resources to our then why not look at Conte for that lot down the road. Many would have looked at him as the 'track record' manager that we should be attracting at Arsenal but for all the hand wringing over our disappointing results Arteta is out performing Conte this far this season, even with one hand behind his back in the striker department.

Second, look at the pivot in the EPL towards younger, fresher managers rather than the traditional old guard. In many ways, Arsenal have been in the vanguard of this in terms of a traditional 'big club' making a bold move. Tactical flexibility; planning for the medium to long term; fresh ideas...this is what many clubs are now looking for, and for all Arteta's flaws, he brings these qualities to the table. When you look at how some of the 'bright young things' at other EPL clubs are crashing and burning this season in (as you point out) an era of massive league competition and a far more level playing field, and I think Arteta compares pretty favourably.

Third, what is consistently overlooked IMO is just how much a change in ethos/mentality was needed at Arsenal. For years we were a by word for stagnation - with players having it too easy, a lack of togetherness; lack of connection with the fans; short term expensive signings to chase short term aims of CL football. Much of this has improved dramatically at our club this season, and that is down to our manager. Say what you like about Arteta - his players remain behind him and bought into what he is trying to do, and for me this is a much better indication of his direction of travel than the often reductive and loaded opinions of pundits - armchair or otherwise.

Step outside our Arsenal bubble - that is inevitably driven by a certain sense of entitlement to be at the top table where we were previously - and I think we would find that fans of most top 10 clubs outside the top 3 would say that Arsenal are slowly getting it right under Arteta...and more importantly that we now undoubtedly have a solid platform from which to push on, for the first time in many years.

I am not an Arteta cheerleader as such, but I like to think I am objective enough to balance the tangible improvements that he has brought to our team and the club more generally with his more obvious mistakes. And I certainly feel that from where we are, seeing whether the progress that we have made this season under Arteta can be built upon for next season is a far better option than rolling the dice again with another manager.

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Originally Posted by Master Splinter

Letters' first :gp: since Coney was born.

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<_<

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Originally Posted by Letters

This time last year we were:

P29 W12 D6 L11 F40 A32 Pts42

At this stage. Now we are:

P29 W17 D3 L9 F44 A34 Pts54

I'd suggest that's a pretty clear improvement so far. We only need 7 more points to get the same points as we finished on last year, it seems pretty clear there's going to be improvement this year.
It might not be enough for top 4 but overall I'm seeing positive signs in the team. Last night was a bad day at the office, we have reacted well after other setbacks, if we do again then I don't think we'll be far away from top 4 this year.
I don't think anyone thinks we're the finished product but for all my "Arteta out" wobbles this season I think he's taking us in the right direction and has earned the right to try and continue that.

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:gp:

Just to update this. At this stage last year we were:

P33 W13 D7 L13 F44 A37 GD7 Pts46

Now it's:

P33 W19 D3 L11 F52 A40 GD12 Pts60

So that's 14 points improvement. Progress :bow:
NOTE: We did win our last 5 games last year, we are unlikely to this year. But it's unlikely we'll finish with less points this year than we did last.

Fewer

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Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t

Fewer

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:haha:

Dammit!

:getcoat:

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Originally Posted by Letters

:haha:

Dammit!

:getcoat:

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:pal:

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Originally Posted by Xhaka Can’t

Fewer

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:gp: