Fabregas goes to Barca for £35million

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

i love this new tag line of 'give us our arsenal back' tripe

it went years ago - we wanna get bigger? then fuck the fans

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They already are. Doesn't seem to be making the club bigger though

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

get it back, are you serious? the direction is to be a super club, not one that gives a shit about the fans. sure if you want the perception that they care then fair enough but its naive to think they really ever would at that sort of level.

pining for the 'good old days' is nothing but sad sentimentalism of a time when we were a completely different club, in a different stadium

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Makes you wonder what the point of all this is anymore tbh. I doubt many supporters find the thought of supporting a brand or company particularly appealing. Most are supporters of Arsenal FC, the football club, not some faceless corporation which is what this club is being turned into. Even Wenger keeps talking about "self sustaining business", as if it'll reduce our brand value if he mentions that we're actually a football team, leading to an erosion in the value of the club shares.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Yes then said the attitude is spot on etc etc.

He takes the blame, so what....he still not saying that he should be saying. We all know he is to blame, I want to hear him say it's not working and that changes are needed.

The guy still maintains he's doing things the right way, 6 years suggests he isn't.

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Well, we're clearly not going to see eye to eye over what he should or should not be saying.

For me it's down to what happens on the pitch, not what he says in press conferences, where every single word can be spun to suit which ever hack, internet warrior, WUM or misguided idiot wants to opinionate on.

It's clear to me that things on the pitch are not right. By all means lay the blame at Wenger's door for that. The reasons behind the way he has managed the team these past few years, we will never really know. And I speak in terms of the operation of the club as opposed to purely football matters.

I have no doubt that the people who run the club know full well what they're doing.

But there have been mistakes made on the pitch, and he is accountable for that above all else. I have said before that I think he should go, because I'm not sure I trust him to make the necessary changes pitchside, and stop meddling in something which I believe is now solid (i.e our financial position).

You're taking everything at face value and not paying the slightest attention to what the reasons are for the way we have operated. I'm not saying I know any more than you, but I'll tell you one thing, their are not stupid idiots running our club, there are people who have facilitated a move to a massive new stadium, and put things in place for the long term future of the club, whilst still remaining "relatively" competetive.

There isn't much that needs fixing. It is basic football shit which needs addressing, and this is what you're pissed off at. It's what I'm pissed off at, and it's what every Arsenal fan wants to see fixed.

Can wenger fix it? Of course. He's one of the best managers in the world. Will he? I don't know. All I know is, his job and any harmonious relationship with the clubs fans is in jeapordy. So he HAS to fix it, and now.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Hmmm. Trust him...I dunno. I believe he is a top manager who could still win us things, yes. Trust him to do what is right at this point in time. I'm on the fence.

To say, as some are, that we buy nobodies is a load of old shite. When you look at last years team, there are plenty of players that most clubs would give there right testicle for. That's evident with Nasri and Cesc right now...but do you not think SAF would cream himself if we offered him Sagna, Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott, RVP etc??? They are fucking good players, all of which Wenger has bought, and for not very much money really.

Those who think Wenger is deluded are cleary very blind.

BUT, he has failed to address relatively simple problems on the pitch. And it is these which make me doubt him. I've ratteled them off on this board so many times (defence, organisation, leadership, respect for the opposition *sigh*) that I don't know how much more clear I can be.

He is responsible for this. He has admitted blame for this.

What I want to see is those mistake rectified. He is more than capable as a manager of sorting those, but for me, he needs to start focusing more on the team. The business will take care of itself...moreso if he builds a winning team again.

If he continues to fanny around with the business side of things, and not pay heed to the problem areas on the pitch, he is not right for the club anymore, because that is what he is employed to do. He has done massive things for the club, MASSIVE. Anyone who can't see that is a fool.

But, Arsene, it's time to get back to basics of managing a football team now. Let "the Company" take care of itself please.

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Well where I differ from your opinion is that I don't believe Arsene has it in him to make the necessary changes to personnel or tactics. I also don't believe we'll win another trophy with him in charge. I've felt this way for about 3 seasons now and nothing he's said or done this summer so far makes me believe he will change.

I agree that we have a good core of players but Arsene has neglected/mismanaged a few aspects of the team and it's make up for a while now, I really don't understand why he either can't fix them or get somebody to help him fix them? These problems we talk about haven't just surfaced, they have been present for a good while.

Arsene can't even build balanced teams anymore, what's the point in having a team full of highly technical players if the team lacks character & heart?

I don't think Arsene is deluded...I jus think he's so caught up in doing things the "his way" or as he likes to tell us "the right way" that he can't see the wood through the trees.

The funny thing is we all have these discussions every single summer about Arsene. It's the usual, "give him 1 more season", "wait till the end of summer", "he'll change we'll buy", "nobody could do a better job than him", "he has no money to spend".

Nothing ever changes though and I very much doubt it will until he leaves.

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Originally Posted by Joker

Makes you wonder what the point of all this is anymore tbh. I doubt many supporters find the thought of supporting a brand or company particularly appealing. Most are supporters of Arsenal FC, the football club, not some faceless corporation which is what this club is being turned into. Even Wenger keeps talking about "self sustaining business", as if it'll reduce our brand value if he mentions that we're actually a football team, leading to an erosion in the value of the club shares.

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you just need to separate and the two. i've had a season ticket for 20 years now and enjoy going to match day as much as i ever did. its my choice to spend the money to go, i still get huge enjoyment. whatever the board do is their choice. the off field politics are what they are, ive got far more important things to worry about and the return on my investment into attendance still satisfies me.

every club that wants to increase their size suffers a huge disconnect with the fans over time, its part and parcel.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

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Drink influenced or not, this is absolutely spot on.

Drunk Gary. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

you just need to separate and the two. i've had a season ticket for 20 years now and enjoy going to match day as much as i ever did. its my choice to spend the money to go, i still get huge enjoyment. whatever the board do is their choice. the off field politics are what they are, ive got far more important things to worry about and the return on my investment into attendance still satisfies me.

every club that wants to increase their size suffers a huge disconnect with the fans over time, its part and parcel.

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Dead right. I sometimes hark back to the fondly remembered times standing on the terraces or under the clock at Highbury, with a 'local feel' to the team and a good earthy game of football. That is long gone and the only way that feeling can return would be to watch a small team. Where I live, I have been tempted to go and watch my local 'Forest Green Rovers' to see if that feel is there. However, even though things have changed, the Arsenal is still the Arsenal to me and while I might be able to give some support to a local side, it will never replace the Arsenal as the team I hold as special.

I get what you say about separating things. What seems to happen at the club sometimes drives me up the wall, but when I've been to the Emirates and take my seat, the only thing that matters is that match and hoping will do the job on the day.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Anyone thinking Fabregas is acting honorably in all this is clearly deluding themselves.

I don't give a damn about value anymore, either let him rot at the Club or just get rid of the shit - either way suits me now.

But gotta say, one thing that sickens me more than any of the douchebaggery by and sanctioned by Cesc is the fucking apologists here that somehow reckon we owe some twat that we've paid £110k per week.

Do.

We.

Fuck.

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Best fecking post in this Thread.

End of the day Sell him, don't , throw him in the Dustbin don't give a shit what happens with him anymore.

Lets hope we can do whats best for the club and move on.

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Originally Posted by Coney

Dead right. I sometimes hark back to the fondly remembered times standing on the terraces or under the clock at Highbury, with a 'local feel' to the team and a good earthy game of football. That is long gone and the only way that feeling can return would be to watch a small team. Where I live, I have been tempted to go and watch my local 'Forest Green Rovers' to see if that feel is there. However, even though things have changed, the Arsenal is still the Arsenal to me and while I might be able to give some support to a local side, it will never replace the Arsenal as the team I hold as special.

I get what you say about separating things. What seems to happen at the club sometimes drives me up the wall, but when I've been to the Emirates and take my seat, the only thing that matters is that match and hoping will do the job on the day.

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"I much prefered 1932-33 season" :cloud9: