Evra the twat - Advice to Nasri

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Originally Posted by Super Ghel

Yup I feel the same. One out of the two is still manageable, but lose both and we’re fucked imo. Wholesale changes in a short space of time would do a lot of harm in our ability to function as a cohesive unit.

People argue that finances isn’t a legitimate excuse for our failures and are often perplexed why AW and the board is so drawn to bargain bins and youth policy with an aversion to experienced quality, but Nasri’s situation just demonstrates why it is so. Financing fears are still predominantly in the back of their minds and our board’s refusal to budge from our wage structure is what separates us from the other “Big” clubs imo. This is Cashley and Adebuywhore saga all over again.

Clubs with no such risk aversion, and being quite effective with their strategy of dangling a huge carrot, means we are constantly under pressure to address this massive gap in pay which eats into our transfer funds every season, and to ignore it would mean we risk being seen as undeniable cheapskates which would severely impact our future ability to attract players of quality.

Rumours say we’re offering Nasri in the region of 90k per week, but if he’s offered twice that amount elsewhere, anyone in a similar quandary would be turned imo. I wonder how much we’ll have to end up paying Wilshere down the road to keep him away from the filthy hands of other clubs.

Supporters cry out “spend some fucking money” don’t always consider the wage implications imo and this is where the misconception begins. The two are not mutually exclusive but often go hand in hand in an overall package. Perhaps this is why we always fail to sign the experienced quality we need and negotiations are often protracted or seem to break down at some point. It’s the damn wages, not just valuation fee!

Imo you can’t go screaming your lungs out asking for transfer spending on the one hand, while on the other, refuse to blame the board for being ‘small time’ with their wage offers but readily castrate players for being greedy mercs when much better offers are available elsewhere. That’s just convenient double standards to suit our slant on the issue. If we want the club to spend big like others, we must be prepared to accept that our wages need to be adjusted to commensurate with the ‘market rate’ elsewhere!

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:gp:

I think fans look at man utd, Chelsea, City even Liverpool now throwing around money and question why we can't spend even a fraction of their spending...given that we are their direct rivals afterall. Wenger's prudness is all well and good for the short term but its having damaging long-lasting effects on the club with the same problems being unrectified, players leaving etc etc

I get the impression that Wenger and the club are hedging their bets on these FFP rules being brought into force and having the desired effect of stopping the increasing rise in players wages. The club would be on a more even footing in this more regulated enviornment. If the rules turn out to be a farce then we're in trouble...we simply cannot compete with the level of spending of the likes of Citeh.

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Originally Posted by Sirjackofwilshere

:gp:

I think fans look at man utd, Chelsea, City even Liverpool now throwing around money and question why we can't spend even a fraction of their spending...given that we are their direct rivals afterall. Wenger's prudness is all well and good for the short term but its having damaging long-lasting effects on the club with the same problems being unrectified, players leaving etc etc

I get the impression that Wenger and the club are hedging their bets on these FFP rules being brought into force and having the desired effect of stopping the increasing rise in players wages. The club would be on a more even footing in this more regulated enviornment. If the rules turn out to be a farce then we're in trouble...we simply cannot compete with the level of spending of the likes of Citeh.

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Finances play a part but hedging our bets on the FFP rules being brought into force isn't going to rectify our leaky defence.

We need to get the basic right first then we should look at the finances.

I actually think we could make quite a few internal improvements in the way we play/tactics, training, maybe even the way we condition some of our players. We need to get the foundations right first before we even think about the finances and the player recruitment policy.

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Originally Posted by Super Ghel

Yup I feel the same. One out of the two is still manageable, but lose both and we’re fucked imo. Wholesale changes in a short space of time would do a lot of harm in our ability to function as a cohesive unit.

People argue that finances isn’t a legitimate excuse for our failures and are often perplexed why AW and the board is so drawn to bargain bins and youth policy with an aversion to experienced quality, but Nasri’s situation just demonstrates why it is so. Financing fears are still predominantly in the back of their minds and our board’s refusal to budge from our wage structure is what separates us from the other “Big” clubs imo. This is Cashley and Adebuywhore saga all over again.

Clubs with no such risk aversion, and being quite effective with their strategy of dangling a huge carrot, means we are constantly under pressure to address this massive gap in pay which eats into our transfer funds every season, and to ignore it would mean we risk being seen as undeniable cheapskates which would severely impact our future ability to attract players of quality.

Rumours say we’re offering Nasri in the region of 90k per week, but if he’s offered twice that amount elsewhere, anyone in a similar quandary would be turned imo. I wonder how much we’ll have to end up paying Wilshere down the road to keep him away from the filthy hands of other clubs.

Supporters cry out “spend some fucking money” don’t always consider the wage implications imo and this is where the misconception begins. The two are not mutually exclusive but often go hand in hand in an overall package. Perhaps this is why we always fail to sign the experienced quality we need and negotiations are often protracted or seem to break down at some point. It’s the damn wages, not just valuation fee!

Imo you can’t go screaming your lungs out asking for transfer spending on the one hand, while on the other, refuse to blame the board for being ‘small time’ with their wage offers but readily castrate players for being greedy mercs when much better offers are available elsewhere. That’s just convenient double standards to suit our slant on the issue. If we want the club to spend big like others, we must be prepared to accept that our wages need to be adjusted to commensurate with the ‘market rate’ elsewhere!

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Our untested kids are earning shitloads more than any other untested kid will earn at any other big club. That money could be spent on wages for more established players.

That is why the club doesn't want to "spend some fuckin*g money" on established players. Because they's rather buy some so-called bright prospect and pay them above the market rate wages. All that money could have been spent on some proven players OR USED TO RETAIN OUR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS that we let go because of some stupid over 30s rule.

The sanctimonious preaching about other clubs spending is getting tiresome. Moreover, we do not have to spend like these clubs to beat sides like flipping birmingham,newcastle,fulham,stoke etc.

Our own parsimonious policies have us where we are now. Wenger wants to still pay or buy top players for the same amounts he was paying a decade ago ffs! I am no economist but how does that make any sense?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

No, but you can just generally loathe the greedy little shits for taking such a huge chunk out of a game that thrives on passion, the team, the history but which they are happy to ignore in favour of me-me-me (and my shitbag agent). We're loyal to the club as fans, the players are loyal to nobody (not even when they're paid more in a week than most of us get in a year). Why don't we all pick up sticks and support whoever happens to be on top at any given time? The clubs and the greedy little runts in the team wouldn't appreciate that from the fans, would they? Yet they are happy to do it to the fans having taken the fans' money. This game's dying, mostly because of unrestrained greed.

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It goes generally unreported that When Wenger first joined, Fiszman injected £50m of his own money into the club. It was significant because it allowed us to offer Adams a new improved contract.

Adams claims he would have left otherwise.

So the club captain, a guy who is reverred amonst the greatest most loyal servants we've ever had would have buggered off but for a few dollars more.

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Originally Posted by Boss

Sure, you can point to the likes of Rooney, Tevez, Toure (who let's not forget all of which are getting roughly 250k per week to play for their clubs... something that would make a huge difference in terms of commitment I'm sure) but what about the others? Even talking about those, I'm sure if you put them in a team who has been in our position the last five years (never strengthening, trophyless, nothing looking like changing) you'd see a change in attitude.

We put our players in systems that blatantly don't work and in a lot of cases play them out of position (Bendtner, Nasri, Diaby/Denilson, Eboue, Arshavin etc) and don't fix problems which every man and his dog can point out, and then blame those players for 'wanting away'. They want away because of the above reasons.

Fix the root problem (lack of quality in the squad / lack of capability to win things) and you could guarantee a lot more from those players. Why else does everyone on here believe Fergie could get a lot more out of our squad?

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I have a mixed response to your points. It is beyond debate that success will lead to greater retention potential. I can't see many players - played out of position or not, who would want away from a successful team, brimming with confidence. And it is not difficult to understand why Bendy and Denilson are frustrated and want away.

But where I disagree fundamentally is that these players are justified in using the club as a vehicle solely to service their own ends in circumstances where they have failed to fulfill their own responsibilities. Football contracts are not accidents. Players are paid according to their worth when they join the club. I simply cannot agree that we should expect Rooney, Tevez, Toure to perform while our players don't because they get paid more than ours. Our players entered into their contracts and did the best deals that they could - same as those 3. Do you see players like Charlie Adam; Scott Parker; David Dunne not play to the utmost of their postential because they earn less than our stars? Closer to home, have we seen the kind of performances form Bendtner; Denilson; Rosicky; Vela or Diaby that justify their vastly inflated wages relative to their importance/ability.

I dispute that prior to this season there should have been any justifiable reason for the team not to believe, as many of us did, in Wenger's project. Forget the failings that have now shown themselves. As recently as March we were riding high and in a position to push on. But even without that, I cannot accept players who do not attempt to perform at their very best level whatever they might think about the team's set-up. Even less excuse them.

As NQ rightly says. It was the players themselves who pissed it all away this season when it was in their grasp. This is the bottom line when you strip away tactics; formations; training. But even worse is the fact that with a few exceptions, our players gave up; failed to focus, and in many instances simply let us down

Nasri was one of these. Scintillating up to January - largely missing thereafter. If he and his agent think so much of themselves, then potential purchasers would do well to remember that if a player thinks of himself as a big-time Charlie, then he should live up to that by carrying the team. Cecs's self-vident lack of passion during the latter part of the season, as captain of our team, was inexcusable - certainly not excused, as you suggest, by the fact that he didn' have good enough players playing with him or that we had an unbalanced team. They were good/balanced enough when they were beating Barca; Chelsea, and still in 4 comps, weren't they?

Our players' effort should be innate - not something to be switched on when that player feels the team is doing exactly what he wants - and AW's mistake over the past 5 years has been to have too many players that seem to think like this. A team made up of players who will only perform when silverware is guaranteed would never get to that point in the first place, and will sink like a stone when is not.

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Originally Posted by budesonide

Our untested kids are earning shitloads more than any other untested kid will earn at any other big club. That money could be spent on wages for more established players.

That is why the club doesn't want to "spend some fuckin*g money" on established players. Because they's rather buy some so-called bright prospect and pay them above the market rate wages. All that money could have been spent on some proven players OR USED TO RETAIN OUR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS that we let go because of some stupid over 30s rule.

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I see your point that our untested kids are earning more compared to their peers in other clubs and the money can be used to sign or fund established players, but how much can we hope to harvest out of this strategy?

According to you, the reason the club does not want to “spend this fucking money” is because we want to buy bright prospects and pay them above market rates is because they’re young? That’s it? That’s the extent of our board’s vision and wisdom in your opinion?

So how much incremental money can we save if we pay our youth a similar bracket to that of other clubs? Do you not see why our board/AW chose a different route rather than going toe to toe with heavyweights who have no qualms spending the equivalent of our stadium debt on their entire squad? Can we hope to beat them at the game of paying top pound for high end quality?

So for every top offer we make for a Tevez or Drogba equivalent, what’s to stop them from turning around and increasing the stakes? Where does it end? Do we always feed on scraps and leftovers in this case, instead of identifying and concentrating our efforts on the best? Is that what you propose we do?

And for every Yaya who’s earning twice as much as Cesc, how many players do we need to let go, to fund the transfer of a few players in this category as well as their exorbitant wages? You don’t need to be an economist to figure that out. And once we start offering such wages, do we not need to adjust the scale accordingly in the future and worry about the slight possibility of wages spiralling out of control? Any answers?

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Originally Posted by budesonide

The sanctimonious preaching about other clubs spending is getting tiresome. Moreover, we do not have to spend like these clubs to beat sides like flipping birmingham,newcastle,fulham,stoke etc.

Our own parsimonious policies have us where we are now. Wenger wants to still pay or buy top players for the same amounts he was paying a decade ago ffs! I am no economist but how does that make any sense?

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First of all, what does my post regarding Nasri’s situation above and the club’s wage structure have got anything to do with our inability to beat sides like Birmingham or Newcastle? Why are you treating and lumping two separate issues into one? Was I hinting that I held AW as some supreme tactician of sorts without any flaws? If not, why jump to the conclusion that it’s tiresome sanctimonious preaching? Did my post hit a nerve or something, causing you the inability to form a coherent argument?

Do you not see the similarities of Nasri’s plight to that of Cashley or Adebuywhore in this case, whereby our board’s refusal to budge on our wage structure is what’s separating us from other “big” clubs with no such risk aversion? Don’t you think it’s a case of double standards to shout angrily for transfer spending on the one hand, while on the other, refuse to blame the board for holding us back with their strict wage offers, but readily castrate players for being greedy mercs when they are fully aware of their ‘market rate’ and worth elsewhere?

And lastly, you say Wenger still wants to buy top players for the same amounts he was paying a decade ago. My question is, how do you know this for a fact when you’re not privy to such negotiations? How do you know it’s not a wages problem like Nasri’s case for example, which ends up being the main stumbling block in various transfer negotiations? Who do you reckon’ we trust in this case? A manager like Wenger who has a degree in economics and a wealth of experience in this subject or a non expert like you who perhaps have some extra-sensory perception of what transpires behind closed doors? How's that for common sense?

Over to you and please ANSWER ALL my questions first if you want my reply! Otherwise I will treat it with contempt as some non coherent irrelevant drivel not worth my time or effort.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

No, but you can just generally loathe the greedy little shits for taking such a huge chunk out of a game that thrives on passion, the team, the history but which they are happy to ignore in favour of me-me-me (and my shitbag agent). We're loyal to the club as fans, the players are loyal to nobody (not even when they're paid more in a week than most of us get in a year). Why don't we all pick up sticks and support whoever happens to be on top at any given time? The clubs and the greedy little runts in the team wouldn't appreciate that from the fans, would they? Yet they are happy to do it to the fans having taken the fans' money. This game's dying, mostly because of unrestrained greed.

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You’re absolutely right and it’s sad to see but greed, as they say is still the single most important driving force behind every human impetus and the cornerstone foundation of our civilisation. There’s no escape from it and ‘twas only a matter of time before it caught up with our favourite pastime. We either accept it for what it is or move on to other pursuits. I bet if we’re Citeh fans, we won’t be mourning as much about this though! :)