Tony Adams: Graham was a better coach than Wenger

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

I hate to date myself but 1-0 to Arsenal was a song way before George Graham was manager.

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Maybe so but it's Graham that really gave substance to that song, don't think we sing that much any....and not sure 6-5 to the Arsenal works.

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

I think Graham was undoubtably the better defensive coach.
Those figures are deceptive because they don't account for the fact that we're a much better side than we ever were under Graham. Our defence in terms of goals conceded is actually one of the best in the PL right now. But it's the worst in the top 4 and there's the point. We're now comparing ourselves with the best in the country and are found wanting.
Plus the way we concede goals show bad defensive organisation and coaching. We concede far too many from set pieces or long straight balls, situations which a Graham defence would cope with all day.
If we were 1-0 up in a tight game with 10 minutes to go and under the cosh under Graham then you could guarantee that more often than not we'd see it out and win the game.
These days if it's 1-0 with 10 minutes to go then even if we're not under the cosh (and we rarely are these days) there's a constant worry that we'll cock it up. And we do with depressing frequency.
In the Graham days, especially near the end, we were fairly mid-table and our goals conceded was still one of the best in the country. It wasn't pretty but we were pretty tight at the back.
Anyway, the key sentence of my ramble is that we're a much better side now than we ever were under Graham.
And that's because for all his faults, for all the frustrations, Wenger is at a completely different level to Graham as a manager.

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I'd argue that in 90-91 we may well have been better than this side to be honest, we were superb that year and had some flair as well, we were devastating going forward too.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Maybe so but it's Graham that really gave substance to that song, don't think we sing that much any....and not sure 6-5 to the Arsenal works.

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I'd have taken 6-5 to the Arsenal in the match up at St James' Park.

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Originally Posted by tarzan

I'd have taken 6-5 to the Arsenal in the match up at St James' Park.

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Should have finished the game at half time to be honest, there should be a rule that if you score 4 before half time then the game ends then.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Maybe so but it's Graham that really gave substance to that song, don't think we sing that much any....and not sure 6-5 to the Arsenal works.

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But 6-5 win is worth the same number of points as a 1-0 win.

Graham's Arsenal may have given "substance" to the song but the stats do not give it as much credence as people might think. One comparison I did not put up there is that in 15 seasons, Wenger's Arsenal have lost 10 or more games only once, whereas the Graham Arsenal did that in 5 of the 9 seasons.

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Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner

But 6-5 win is worth the same number of points as a 1-0 win.

Graham's Arsenal may have given "substance" to the song but the stats do not give it as much credence as people might think. One comparison I did not put up there is that in 15 seasons, Wenger's Arsenal have lost 10 or more games only once, whereas the Graham Arsenal did that in 5 of the 9 seasons.

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Did you see the players he had though?

There's no doubt the talent wasn't really there, we had Limpar who was as good as anything we have now and of course Wright apart from that though not a huge amount.

Graham's Arsenal were far superior defensively there's no question about that.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

I'd argue that in 90-91 we may well have been better than this side to be honest, we were superb that year and had some flair as well, we were devastating going forward too.

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I'd give you that. But you're comparing our best season under Graham with our worst under Wenger.
Overall we've been a much better side under Wenger than Graham, that's pretty much impossible to dispute.

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

I'd give you that. But you're comparing our best season under Graham with our worst under Wenger.
Overall we've been a much better side under Wenger than Graham, that's pretty much impossible to dispute.

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Yes true but you did say

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Anyway, the key sentence of my ramble is that we're a much better side now than we ever were under Graham.

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Wenger has built much better sides yes, in his earlier days those sides were amazing, last 6 years or so though there's not been too much of that. Those sides have not got the basics right and I've said many times I haven't really enjoyed watching them very often.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Did you see the players he had though?

There's no doubt the talent wasn't really there, we had Limpar who was as good as anything we have now and of course Wright apart from that though not a huge amount.

Graham's Arsenal were far superior defensively there's no question about that.

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I think that the analysis I posted here would cause most people to question the assertion "far superior defensively". Better maybe, but far superior is a stretch.

For example, if we take the last 6 Wenger seasons, the Graham Arsenal beat the goals against total (which I think can be considered a bit of a benchmark for defensive capability) in just 2 of the 9 seasons.

TG:good: