Seasons' comparisons

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Its petty to argue about Ozil coming off.

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Whether it's petty to argue about it is immaterial. The fact he was hauled off is the issue. We had control of a match where our attacking players were vastly superior to the the defenders they were up against. Liverpool had key men missing. Kolo was having a nightmare. At the very sharpest end of competition our job was to take full advantage. So you leave Ozil on and you maintain the control, you squeeze as much momentum as you can from the game and take it to the next game. It's not a gamble when you have control. The real gamble was going negative. Settling for what we had when we weren't under any significant threat. Wenger created the threats with his changes.

At times there are other considerations. If we were still in Europe I suppose you could say he was saving Ozil for that. But we aren't in Europe because Wenger gambled wrong again. That was the time to play it tight and nick the home advantage. We don't have a midweek game coming up. Ozil is not being eased in after injury. There were no considerations in play. It was a negative and depressing substitution. Let the guy play. He's having one of his best games in an Arsenal shirt, why oh why the fuck take him off? It's utterly ridiculous. With just a few games left what are we saving up for? This is the time to put everything out there and go for it.

Indeed he has signed some very good players and he now has a strong squad to call from. Nobody is criticising him on that front. Now he has to find the balanced team and use it to the very best advantage.

The correct substitution was Welbeck for Ramsey. That would have kept the shape and formation and maintained the energy on the right. Once you bring Flamini on everything changes, everything is disrupted. Useful if you are holding ground against a dangerous opponent. Fact is, Liverpool weren't a dangerous opponent on the day. We had that match by the throat. It was Wenger who released the grip. This time we didn't pay for it. Other times we have. We've all seen it. He's slacked off several times this season when we should have pushed on. His negativity, that's what people are worried about.

Hauled off :lol:

We were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left when Ozil came off. We did concede almost immediately after he came off but to connect those two things is really stretching it. The penalty was a one off mistake in an otherwise excellent performance all round.

I'll admit I was nervous when they got the goal back because of past idiocy from us but the truth is Liverpool had zero chances to score after getting that goal back. We were the ones still creating chance - Carzola hit the post, Giroud scored. And it wasn't a negative substitution, he came off for Welbeck. An attacker. The only consideration is Ozil looked knackered. We were 3 goals up when he came off, we won by three goals.

I can't believe Wenger is being criticised for being negative in a game we won by 4 goals to 1. :lol:. Previously he's been criticised for the team being too gung ho in games when we've let slip a lead. :shrug:
We were 3-0 up when Flamini came on, there was about half an hour to go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not all bombing forward in that situation and getting caught on the break and being put under pressure. Had we been 1-0 up then I could understand some criticism - especially had we dropped points as a result. Fact is we were comfortable throughout the second half. Liverpool huffed and puffed a bit but I can only remember one decent save from Ospina, they didn't threaten much and that was in part because of our good defensive work.

Wenger is either responsible for results or he isn't. If he gets criticism for the early part of the season when were looking poor and drawing too many games then he gets credit now when we're on a fantastic run.

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We were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left when Ozil came off. We did concede almost immediately after he came off but to connect those two things is really stretching it. The penalty was a one off mistake in an otherwise excellent performance all round.

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Nowhere did I connect Ozil coming off with the goal we conceded.

Ok, but you called it a negative and depressing substitution, I don't see how you figure that. Taking off a midfielder for a striker :shrug:
Ozil looked knackered, Welbeck could do with a run out, we were 3-0 up with 15 minutes left.
I honestly don't think the substitution requires any deep analysis.

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We were 3-0 up when Flamini came on, there was about half an hour to go. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not all bombing forward in that situation and getting caught on the break and being put under pressure. Had we been 1-0 up then I could understand some criticism - especially had we dropped points as a result. Fact is we were comfortable throughout the second half. Liverpool huffed and puffed a bit but I can only remember one decent save from Ospina, they didn't threaten much and that was in part because of our good defensive work.

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So the two options were tighten up or go all out gung-ho reckless attacking? No in-between option where we keep the balance that had already established a 3 goal lead and dominance of the game? I didn't say we should have subbed the whole defence and keeper (see, I did a you but in reverse).

Yes, I agree with your point and the point I already made - we were comfortable from start to end. The biggest evidence of this was the loss of Kos - we still didn't struggle. So no need to tighten up. Let the performance evolve into a full 90 minutes of positive momentum building. Let Ozil play out possibly his best 90 minutes in an Arsenal shirt. Get the maximum return. Even though he didn't play the full 90 he still topped the list on passes in the opposition final third. He was on fire and making the whole team tick over. It's insane to replace him under those circumstances and I translate that sort of managerial decision into a desire for the top four rather than a desire for the top spot.

It's not just about the one game. It's the momentum and team belief and spirit and attitude over a season. The Invincibles usually had the game won before they stepped on the pitch because the opposition simply didn't believe they could beat us. That didn't spring up from a single match, but over many matches where the ruthlessness of the team and manager set the tone.

This negativity and settling for less than the absolute maximum didn't cost us against Liverpool, but it has cost us in the past and will cost us in the future. Be sure of this, we have no chance whatsoever of winning the big prizes with the attitude of this manager. He hasn't got that killer mentality and even when the team take it upon themselves to go for the jugular Wenger puts a stop to it.

The criticisms are not focused on a 4-1 win. The team played great and I have said as much. And yes, Wenger selected the team and the tactics so no criticism there. But in a position of strength with no discernible threat he still went safe. It's worth pointing that out because you have to have the conditions on a superior position and a 4-1 win to highlight the fact. It was a glaring insight into this manager's philosophy.

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I don't see how you figure that. Taking off a midfielder for a striker

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You know that's not what I mean, you're just using it to press a non-existent point.

I mean taking Ozil off (losing dominance in the final third) and bringing Flamini on (changing the balance). Ramsey went because he was injured, fair enough. That's when Welbeck should have come on because Ramsey was forward deployed on the right anyway, it was Santi tasked with the legwork in the centre (odd in itself but it worked). Apart from the Kos injury, Flamini was Wenger's first port of call. very illustrative.

In fact a smart and forward thinking manager might have brought Walcott on instead of Welbeck. We could afford it. Why not kill 36 birds with one stone given the contract negotiations? But this is too joined up for our mechanical manager.

I'm telling you, he's not the guy to push this team to the very top. I wish he was and he might change now we are getting better players through the door. But I doubt it. The signs aren't there.

We won 4-1 you silly sod :lol:
Stop WUMming :good:

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Originally Posted by Letters

We won 4-1 you silly sod :lol:
Stop WUMming :good:

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Sigh.

Okay, here are the current seasons' comparisons after the weekend:

Chelsea 69 pt (1)
13/14 3
12/13 14
11/12 20
10/11 15
09/10 5
08/09 8
07/08 7
06/07 3

Arsenal 63 pt
13/14 0
12/13 7
11/12 5
10/11 1
09/10 -4
08/09 5
07/08 -4
06/07 8

Man U 62 pt
13/14 11
12/13 -15
11/12 -14
10/11 -4
09/10 -7
08/09 -11
07/08 -11
06/07 -16

Man City 61 pt
13/14 -9
12/13 -4
11/12 -10
10/11 5
09/10 5

Liverpool 54 pt
13/14 -14
12/13 6
11/12 12
10/11 9
09/10 3
08/09 -13
07/08 -5
06/07 -3

Spurs 54 pt
13/14 -2
12/13 -3
11/12 -4
10/11 1
09/10 -4
08/09 16
07/08 15
06/07 6

I think people go into a panic when Wenger makes subs because we see a dramatic shift in our tactics. One minute the hot tap is running and then all of sudden that’s shut off and the cold tap goes on full blast. From ultra attack to shut up shop. At least we have a plan B when it comes to holding on to a lead. It’s not all bad because it also helps set our opposition up for a counter attack. We managed to get a 4 goal. Overall it’s good to see the team’s confident about defending a lead and Wenger doesn’t just think attack is our best form of defence like the old days.

No problem with Ozil coming off later but I wouldn’t have brought on Flamini for Ramsey around the 60 minute mark. Walcott could have served as a good counter attacking weapon when we decided to shut up shop. We should make use of pacey players if deciding to go more defensive just so we have a threat and outlet. Sometimes we go so defensive with the subs we can’t even get out of our half.