Is he that bad? I think he's been decent for us. Better than what Kos was when he first arrived on the scene. Give him time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
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Is he that bad? I think he's been decent for us. Better than what Kos was when he first arrived on the scene. Give him time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Aubameyang missed some great chances against Bayern last Saturday. Like 2 or 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Henry was called a bottler for his misses in big matches for us.
It's just not a real thing. The diffference between top class strikers and everyone else is how many opportunities they get.
Kos waaaay better than Mustafi is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Mustafi looks better than Vermaelen, fwiw. I think he will develop into a great centerback but we fans need to let him get there first instead of just saying he is.
I don't get how you can say it's not a real thing, surely a striker is defined by more than just what chances he creates.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Cavani even if you are purely showcasing the two games against us, missed chances that cost his side a win in both games....it's as simple as that that was the difference between PSG winning and not winning both fixtures.
Now we all criticise Giroud because of chances he misses, and more so especially when he starts he drops into midfield and shows no mobility so it reduces the chances created for him. Now Cavani is an improvement on that because he makes fabulous runs and his movement totally bewitches defenders but ultimately what use is it if he's going to fluff chances like that. Giroud misses chances for sure, but to be fair on Giroud even he has not missed that many clear cut chances in a game (of course that's partly because he hasn't made himself available for said chances)
It's not a real thing. It's one of the ways pundits have mislead us about understanding of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Like I said before, most strikers tend to convert around 20-25 percent of their chances. Goals in itself are a matter of luck. They are freak occurance that happen in a match. It's why Jonathan Wilson famously said goals are overrated. It's not diminishing the importance of goals, but looking only at goals tends to diminish the process that less to the goal. Özil is a special player because he creates chances at an absurd clip. Those chances lead to opportunities on goals which would hopefully lead to the freak occurance of a goal. The more chances you have at a goal, the greater the chances of that freak occurance taking place.
Strikers like Cavani missing a boatload of chances are frustrating to see, but we should be more frustrated at the striker who doesn't get a single shot on goal in a match. That's why most of us are complaining about only getting 3 shots on goal the last 180 minutes Arsenal have played. That's pathetic. I'd rather have Cavani missing a lot of chances but still getting a goal than what we are getting now because the we will regress back to the mean eventually.
Also before this hot streak of Giroud, he was converting something like 2 goals in his prior 25 shots. That's pathetic.
The problem with that argument is that you are conflating quantity and quality of chancesQuote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
If Cavani had four or five reasonable chances to score and missed four and scored one, than yes what you are saying would carry some weight
In both Paris and at the Emirates, the chances Cavani missed were actually far easier than the ones he scored
In Paris he rounded Ospina and had an open goal only to find the side netting, he was clean through on goal a number of times
That after his first minute header he missed all of these not just decent chances but glaring chances cannot be chalked up to statistics
The same in London, the goal he scored was actually very good in that he ghosted into the box and was picked up by no-one, but again clean through on goal....an absolute free header and he misses both.
That's a problem and if we are being honest the two Arsenal games are not outliers, i remember the ridiculous amount of chances he missed against Chelsea in 13/14 quarter finals at Stamford Bridge just one of which taken would have taken PSG through to the semis but instead Chelsea punished that profligacy and scored the second goal and went through instead.
It's a factor but not the difference between top class. Was Adebayor in that elite bracket? He'd often carve out a lot of chances. I disagree on this one. Some of the best strikers in football would have quiet games but bury that one chance they had in the dying moments of the game. That's the mark of an elite striker. I think what your describing about chances comes down to good athleticism and that's different to actually being a good striker. Put Walcott up front and he'll get chances.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
As for Kos...I'm don't mean now, I mean his first couple of seasons. He wasn't very good.
Yep pretty much, and aside from his terrifying pace and his amazing technical ability.....this is what made Henry a great strikerQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Cavani's runs and the way his movement bamboozles defenders is pretty impressive, but if he's creating these amazing chances for himself that he's not finishing than what's the point.
Yep. It’s losing sight of the purpose of a striker. We rarely see real technicians in that position these days. Ronaldo really changed what it meant to be a striker when he arrived on the scene. The Real Ronaldo. He could dribble like a winger but score like a striker and he’d drop deep. It was the same for Henry. We can’t dismiss the striking element as just pure luck. If that were the case, we’d be able to get away with Sanogo or Gervinho playing up front when Wenger tried it some years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
The fact that Cavani is getting good chances shows his quality.
If he was taking four shots from 40 yards out, then I wouldn't say a good word. Getting those chances show he has quality.
Also, and what my main point is, how often do you see strikers convert their only chance? It's easier to remember singular moments and forget a)consistency b)when they miss on that single moment.
I'm not saying Cavani is in the Suarez, Auba, Lewandowski, Aguero, or even Costa class.
What I am saying is that his performances over these two legs were elite.
They weren't elite because he missed a lot of sitters!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
His movement is elite, I won't argue with that but his finishing leaves a lot to be desired...it wasn't a one-off either, he's a very patchy finisher, needs at least 5 or 6 clear cut chances before he buries one.
If he was leading the line for us missing the chances he does this place would be in meltdown!
He's like a slightly upgraded version of Giroud with pace.