Has anyone expressed surprise?
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Has anyone expressed surprise?
Not so much surprise as anger - everyone but you & a couple of other deluded soles still hanging in there for Wumger to get it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
True. My hopes for the title fell off in January. That transfer window was a total cock-up. We've seen it all before and said it all before. I'm just watching to see what unfolds. I'm not going to get myself worked up over this.
Define 'get it right'? Winning the title? Was that ever a realistic expectation this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I fear a textbook Arsenal Collapse but so far I'm fairly content with how things are going this year. Saturday was a bad result but those happen to every team in every season.
We do have a horrible run coming up and I fear for us but I seriously doubt anyone would be calling for Wenger's head had we won on Saturday and were one point off the top. We didn't, fine, but one result going either way shouldn't be the difference.
Let's see where we are in May. Another collapse and I'll join you with the pitchforks.
Just seen this in the 'Official Manger Email' that gets sent around.Quote:
In the second half we had much more possession and we needed to be patient. In this kind of game you need to avoid any mistakes and then wait for a good chance yourself, but we couldn't do that.
Does this explain why there is a lack of urgency in our play sometimes? I don’t like the idea of staying patient, waiting for an opportunity and being so risk averse. It may also explain why he’s so slow to change things. I’ve seen him say this several times and I think this is where we’re going wrong. The slow paced back and forth passing won’t work if we’re not forcing the opposition to commit to a risky challenge and we’re always looking for the safe pass or clear and clean shot. His faith in a chances presenting themselves seems so flawed against this sort of opposition.
This is the problem. We play the same way no matter who the opposition are and what the occasion is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Sometimes we force the issue (see first 20 mins vs Bayern) but it doesn't happen nowhere near enough.
Not sure.
I think the problem is that sometimes we play like absolute turd.
If we could stop playing like absolute turd, think we would do much better. :good:
Indeed. But can Wenger see how bad we’re performing and why isn’t he doing something to change it? I can only link it to that quote. Maybe he thinks a chance will eventually come.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
Yeah maybe. That may be a case of feeling that he's picked his best side for the start of the fixture and that it requires time on the pitch for the magic to happen. Tactical changes, even ones that don't involve a change in personnel, tend not to happen during the first 60-70 minutes of a match.
As for the team's on-pitch patience, I'm not sure this is the issue. We have played well with patience and badly with patience. The problems happen when we don't show up at all. Something somewhere in there is not working quite right, but Mental? Physical? Technical? Tactical?
Buggered if I know.
I think the message he conveys to the players is problematic. Shouldn't we be looking for more urgency when we look that flat? Shouldn't he be telling his players that? He advised them to stay patient and chance will come. That's probably the wrong message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
I think that if you go into a game with the menatlity of slowly slowly catchy monkey....it is hard to completely shift thinking in the course of a game whilst it is in progress. The opposite is also true where if you start a game gung-ho it can be difficult to suddenly switch to patience or the waiting game unless of course the team just incidentally gets tired out. The tactical shift is difficult mid game, not least because Wenger isn't a stand on the touchline shouty manager...... Well he screams at the 4th official but that isn't to change our tactical approach!
That is why there are a handful of managers of better clubs who make changes early and sometimes 2 subs at a time because of how difficult it is for a team to collectively change tack without any actual physical change happening. The subs coming on will be of a certain nature geared towards changing the tactical mindset and they will bellow out instructions to their team mates to ensure the tactical shift infiltrates the rest of the team. Wenger's first and most prominent instructions usually come at half time which is telling in itself.
Because Wenger favours energy and fitness levels over tactics in regards to his subs, his subs never impact games in quite the same way. When they do it is often simply because the fresh legs approach and/or the superior fitness levels of the team gets the better of the tiring opponents. The individual's he has at his disposal can also have a direct impact because of their specific skill set but it is quite hard the way we are set up as a team and organised for us to switch out tactics mid game for these reasons.
Charlie Adam banned for 3 games... Stoke appeal :lol:
worst part is, there were 2 incidents before that, that should have seen him get 2 yellows :-/ 3 of our 5 losses have come from bad refs now (and our draw vs Chelsea). If we have had proper refs in all our games, we would've been 1st now and city would be fighting for 4th spot... But i guess its still all Wengers fault :d
dem wefs
Are you seriously blaming the refs for us not being top right now or are you as I suspect, just kidding about?
We can blame Mike Dean though.
He's a fucking cunt.
I agree with all this. Our twin concerns should be (1) Why Liverpool as they were in the Summer were sufficiently attractive a proposition for Suarez for him to stay with them over us, and (2) Why, having already fucked up over Higuain, we had no other proper targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Turns out the Suarez saga unfairly made us look like a laughing stock. However we made ourselves into a laughing casserole with Kallstrom.
Well we lost, so it's hard to argue otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
7amkickoff wrote an excellent post in the aftermath of the Liverpool game:
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2014/give-up-on-life-pants/
Of particular relevance:
Quote:
It’s also incredible that this Arsenal team, who built their top of the table form by hitting the opposition quickly, jumping out to an early lead, and then parking le autobus, has now reverted to a team which boils slowly and has to play catch up. It’s not a perception, either, it’s real: Arsenal used to score early but have only scored in the first half of games twice in the last 11.
Im just stating facts, if the very controversiel ref decisions that have been made against us in a couple of games and the one for example city have been getting for them in a couple of games, had been done properly, thats how it would be after you withdraw and add the few points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
1) Turns out that Suarez staying at Liverpool is similar to a prisoner with 10 years left on his stretch "deciding" to stay. If they won't let you out and you want to keep working then you have to stay. I don't really have a problem with Henry fucking a player over, about time. Should happen a lot more, like once a week. Put the little loves in their place. Hate his cowardice when he painted up the other parties concerned in a colour that applied solely to him though.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
2) Higuain and Suarez were ambitious targets, nice to see. But both of these player's clubs did a lot of fucking around. Maybe we could handle a third and a fourth fuckabout.
Not sure about us being top, but if the refs had applied the rules in many games where they failed to we'd be well clear of city now. These decisions don't even come close to evening out over a season, in fact the net results diverge as time goes on. Certain players in this league are allowed to kick their opponents off the pitch with impunity. They are a protected species. Somebody somewhere must decide who's on the list and send the word down because it's so consistent and so organised. Vieria would have had half the cards he got with us if he'd played for Utd. This shit's been going on for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Do you not think anything has ever gone against City?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
We aren't top because we haven't been good enough to be. A few weeks ago when we were top, we were there because we had been good enough to be.
We should accept those facts and move on.
Henry is a cunt for the comments he made about us - but he managed what AFC failed to do for year after year and wouldn't we have loved to see some of the same in those years from our club?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Agreed re the ambition of our targets - but its the failure to have any proper alternative plans that is the concern.
City have way more decisions for them, than against them this season, you cant deny that (and im not saying its corrupt refs, just super incompetent)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Wenger has done enough in his control to see us in 1st place, but a 3rd party he cant control, has slowly taken that away ever since the beginning of this season. So i cant follow the whole "Wenger out" train, because if it hadnt been for dodgy decisions, we would have been 1st.
If not for dodgy decisions: Arsenal 1st place, everyone loves Wenger.
A couple of dodgy decisions: Arsenal 4th place, everyone hates Wenger.
It just doesnt make sense to me :)
Tbh i wouldnt want to support a club being lead by cunts like that, the way the entire club, top to bottom, were trying to make us look bad, well knowing that we were right all along, is just a super cunt move and i seriously wouldnt be able to support something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
I would.
Only if we'd done it, as it would be lack of class / Wenger being a dick etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
As it's Liverpool. It's ok. :good:
Even you jonas cant believe the spin put on this"A couple of dodgy decisions: Arsenal 4th place, everyone hates Wenger."Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
Do you honestly think people want wenger out because of a couple of refereeing decisions .
People want change because of
9 years without a trophy.
Failure to have any sort of structured transfer policy.
Failure to set up teams to deal with the opposition and tactics.
Failure to change the team and make substitutions as and when the need arises (and no making a sub every match on 68 mins doesnt count.)
Failure to address squad depth due to injuries.
I wonder what the next thing will be, if we actually manage to win something this year. Wenger out, because he has a stupid jacket on!!1 :d
Dont worry, We will probably win the shiny 4th place trophy again....just. And you and your dear leader can go out and have a right old knees up. Paradise retained!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
Three match ban for Adam is confirmed.
Sorry, i will never support Arsenal again :( Wenger out! :fury:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
There are some fairly logical reasons for thinking Wenger's taken us as far as he can and we should look elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by saintnickle
What annoys me is the hysteria.
Had we won on Saturday we'd be a point off the top of the table. I seriously doubt anyone would have been calling for Wenger's head then.
Fine, we lost, but that result shouldn't be the difference between Wenger :bow: and Wenger :fury:
I appreciate that one result is against a backdrop of 9 years of ups and downs and no trophies but at the start of the season, especially after the Villa game, the issue was could we stay in the top 4. No-one seriously expected a title challenge this year, that shouldn't be the criteria for success this year. IMO we've done very well to stay up there as long as we have. I am concerned about a massive collapse and if that happens then the progress we seemed to be making will disappear. Right now though we're 12 points ahead of where we were last year and we're in the FA Cup quarter final with a winnable home tie.
Concerns about the 'big games', squad depth and the ability to last a season remain and we can only really assess where we are in May.
Right now though no-one would sack their manager based on how we've done this year so far.
The :fury: is because of 8 years of past failures doing the same thing and failing at the same. The :fury: is because pretty much everyone knew that this was coming. If this happened only during this season, nobody would be :fury:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Let's keep facts into perspective that this has happened time and again. Lets not pretend that supporters are angry just because we are 4 points off the leader. There is more to it... in fact almost a decade worth of similar failure for the pissed off fans.
Tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
And we haven't collapsed quite yet. The :fury: is a bit premature, IMO.
So effectively a red card missed by the ref.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
Of course, of course.
You have the answer right there in front of you, Letters. It all stems from the frustration of always getting close, but then finding some way to fuck up when the pressure is on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Patience has worn thin among the fanbase and, the fickle bastards we are, most won't hesitate to call for Wenger's head the minute we seemingly start faltering.
I think it is further compounded by the fact that we bottled it against relegation fodder. Even more frustrating considering that we knew we needed to keep pace by winning these easier set of fixtures leading up to the blitz of tougher opponents, if we wanted to be in with a shout towards the end.
We went out against the orcs and just never looked like winning. This is something which has been plaguing us for quite a while now and I think it's only fair that some fans see only one common denominator in all this.
I've wanted Wenger gone for some time now, but the respect, admiration and gratitude I developed for the man when he revolutionised our club, the BPL and club football in general, made it a bit easy for me to tentatively throw some support behind him when it looked like he was ready to challenge the big boys. But then, as the season progressed, that old feeling of deja vu slowly seeped in as the same cock ups began to recur.
I'd love for him to leave on his own terms, whenever he chooses to. Leave on a high, flaunting the league title in the face of his detractors, but sadly, I don't think he has it in him anymore. All belief has been dashed, as I think he's gotten us as far as he can.
All's not lost though, and when he walks, he will have made a great club greater, leaving them in the enviable position of being self made and standing on solid footing. Absolutely nothing for him to be ashamed of.
Mate you need to take you head out of the clouds, you blame everything but the people who should be blamed, this nonsense about refs has got to stop, yes City have had favourable decisions but so have we, the only reason you don't see them is bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
The refs aren't the reason we aren't top, the reason we're not top is because we haven't really turned up in big games and have begun to run out of steam come crunch time, together with some of the decisions made by our manager.
I'm sure you'll find one or two like you on every forum in the country, people who point to decisions and claim their team should be higher up than they are because of the refs, it just isn't true.
:fury:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
With regards the "No-one seriously expected a title challenge" line, I ask why? The reason is because in the last 8 years we haven't progressed like we should have and as Wenger had many times stated, we should be expected to challenge, we have massive resources, a stable club with a manager who has been there for years, we have everything you need to be successful, Ferguson managed it with Man U so why can't Wenger with us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
For me the reason we're never genuinely seen as winners is nothing to do with money, it's to do with the obvious flaws in our manager's methods, at Christmas we were 7 points clear with a chance to go 10 points clear in the end we were outplayed by Everton at home and then proceeded to drop more points (at City and then against Chelsea), I'm sorry but we shouldn't have been tired at that stage of the season and given our position and form should have beaten them at home, at the time people claimed it was a good result, but it clearly wasn't. Then we had our 2nd hard run in February once again we came unstuck with 2 defeats and a draw (at home) again showing when it gets tough we seem to lack the resolve to get the results.
IMO part of the problem is our generally passive approach to game, rarely to we start with any kind of tempo, we let the opposition settle and against the better sides it's suicidal as once on top you're not going to get a 2nd chance. In addition to that, when things are going wrong, where is Wenger, from my observations he sits on the sidelines and does precious little as highlighted when Liverpool slaughtered us and he refused to make any kind of change to stem the flow.
It's not about the Stoke game and not really about this season, it's about seeing the same pattern unfold time and time again and watching a team who just don't seem to have the stomach for the fight, after almost 9 years you can only conclude that it's the manager that doesn't give them that fire, that doesn't inspire them and make them believe they can beat anyone, it's compounded by the fact he no longer signs players with true inspirational qualities that drive teammates to victory.
It's not been a bad season, there's been improvement in some areas, but for me there hasn't been improvement in the areas I wanted to see thus far.