Yep, it pretty much reinforces the point that he is more interested in proving people wrong than just doing what is necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Printable View
Yep, it pretty much reinforces the point that he is more interested in proving people wrong than just doing what is necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
That's how I see it too, I wasn't that keen on him initially but he really grew into his role and was scoring goals, providing assists and was then dropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
It wouldn't be so bad if the alternatives were great but he was dropped for Ox who has been garbage all season!
That's not even all of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...-the-top-level
He really think he's proved people wrong. He's stuck by a striker that hasn't scored in the crucial parts of the season when challenging for the title but scores once the race is officially over! What an absolute idiot!Quote:
Olivier Giroud was questioned recently and Im happy I kept confidence in him because I thought he had a top-level performance, the manager told Arsenal Player. He was fighting, he had control of the ball, he was finishing and he gave an assist.
Giroud has totally flopped, 15 odd games without a goal, poor performances to boot, when it mattered most he went missing and yet Wenger still believes this guy is up to scratch, it's totally ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
What hope do you have when you have a manager who thinks like a loser, any other manager would be prioritising the signing of a striker and certainly wouldn't be praising a guy after one half decent performance after a long barren spell in a game which in reality didn't mean a great deal in the grand scheme of things.
Whoever questioned him should have pointed out his indifferent performances and lack of goals and the fact we've struggled for goals ourselves.
Really sick of his unwarranted praise for his players, he gives out the praise like it's going out of fashion but you won't hear a word of criticism no matter how bad a player is. The way he treats the players and always absolves them of any blame annoys me too, that's part of the problem too they are too precious for him to say anything negative to.
He's an absolute idiot. Goes along side his 'away winner champion' quote.
:doh: The title race is OVER, Wenger.Quote:
Olivier Giroud was questioned recently and I’m happy I kept confidence in him because I thought he had a top-level performance
Oh and in case he's wondering we drew that match we didn't even win it and the guy scored one goal hardly a mind blowing effort, he's a squad player at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I really think he's missed a trick with this. The wide forward role isn't just a consolation prize for players who haven't made it in through the middle, or somewhere to shove players who we can't find another place for - the role is highly valued amongst the elite. Look at the list of top, top players who have either played wide attack in the past, or are still playing there making a name for themselves... Sanchez, Reus, Griezmann, Mahrez, Bale, Müller, Robben, Ribery, Mhiktaryan, Aubameyang, Dybala, Neymar, Suarez, etc, etc. Messi and Ronaldo for fuck sake! Both those guys played wide for a lot of years. Our greatest ever striker, Henry, played wide before he signed for us, and he played wide again when he went to Barcelona. van Persie played a large chunk of his early career wide. I'm sure I've seen Aguero doing his bit down the right when he has to - makes no odds to him (in fact, most South American forwards are a bit like that). That wide right spot could have been anything that Walcott wanted to make it, and could easily have become the gateway to the CF spot somewhere down the line, but he just didn't want to see it. Such a shame - I'll probably never rate things like his control that highly, but that pace of his could have been used to devastating effect (defensively as well as offensively) if he'd really focussed on learning the job. Grrrr...Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yes, wide right was so clearly and obviously the best position for him. He's an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
@honigstein
A change of tack from Wenger? After having earlier offer rebuffed, he's come back to pay full whack for Xhaka. (€50m, including add-ons)
https://twitter.com/honigstein/statu...11920553762816
:o
@honigstein
Gladbach are trying to get a replacement signed before announcing the deal.
Is this Xhaka really that good, never really heard of him or indeed seen much of him? Interstingly seems to have been sent off 5 times in 3 years, so seems to have a bit of aggression about him, probably not a bad thing considering the players we currently have.
If we do end up spending this amount on this guy I would think a decent striker coming in would be unlikely.
Priority would have been a striker followed by a CB with a DM third for me.
I would call those inverted goal scoring wingers. All of the players you mention have superior dribbling technique and can glide past defenders with ease. It’s the evolution of the winger but not that far from what we used to see from Overmars and Pires. Players cutting in on to their stronger foot and scoring rather than playing on the opposite flank putting in crosses. Walcott is a different player. He can’t dribble at high speeds. He doesn’t have the close control to weave in and out of defenders. It’s something he should have learned but when it comes to dribbling, I don’t think it’s a skill you can develop so late on. I’ve never seen a player that was really bad at dribbling turn into a Ronaldinho.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Theo has pace but playing him wide is like seeing Podolski out wide. He has a bit of pace but can’t really dribble like the players you mention. You remember how stiff Podolski was and how anonymous he used to be during games. He’d need others to set him up with a shot. It’s like starting Michael Owen or Jermain Defoe on the flanks early in their careers. These sort of players are different and do more damage when the ball isn’t at their feet. It’s the opposite of a Robben, Ribery or Neymar. Again, it boils down to whether or not you’re a dribbler that likes to take your opponent on. If Theo weren’t so short, he’d probably have gotten more games up front ages ago. The manager should have recognised the type of player he was earlier in his career instead of trying to shoehorn him into something he’s not and not training him and instructing him adequately for that role.
I can extent that thought on to a lot of young players I’ve seen that’s grown up under Wenger. Ramsey and Cesc are good examples. Wenger had them focussing on goal hunting and he set goal targets for Cesc instead of telling the boy to track back and tackle harder. Be a more complete player and balanced before going for goals. That weakness in Cesc went undeveloped for so long it’s now so that he can’t really be trusted to play as CM without someone doing the leg work for him. He messed him up at Barca and he’d be playing as a striker instead of CM. Ramsey is the same. He’s goal hunting and focussed on runs into the box, timing his runs and arriving late into the box instead of helping to build play at the back like what we’re seeing from Elneny. I think Wenger is a bad youth coach. For older players that have had more first team experience, he’s great. But he’s like a bad car instructor that has drivers roaming the back streets doing the basics but won’t teach them how to parallel park or navigate a roundabout. Project youth has been an absolute flop and Theo Walcott is the poster child. Theo should have been smart enough to jump ship earlier. I’m sure if Wenger had Bale and Spurs Walcott, we’d have probably see a role reversal. I seriously doubt Bale would have become the player he is under Wenger. He’s had over 10 years picking out the best young talent from academies across Europe and hasn’t produced anything close to the players he’s bragged about nearly signing.
Why not! I'd certainly take Toral as an option over either Walcott or Ox at the moment. At least he looks hungry and seems to know what he is. Still has to prove himself at this level, but he's certainly aced the Championship test! Either give him a chance or let him go, because I see no value in farming him out on another loan, or shoving him back in the reserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
To be honest, I'd quite happily sack off a massive chunk of the first team squad at the moment, and promote several of the more promising younger players. Several of the senior players are either already at the end of their Arsenal careers, or will have their best years behind them, another handful might be looking to leave, and yet another group simply aren't good enough or reliable enough - there's potentially a lot of changes on the cards here, and we're not gonna be able to do it all with new signings...
We need a striker. That's the main thing we need over everything else. We saw the difference Suarez made with that bang average Liverpool team. Had them pushing for a the title to the very end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Honestly, we'll get the same results under Wenger. He's a shit coach. We can't get World Cup, CL and League winners to perform consistently so throwing kids into the deep end won't work. They all look hungry at first. I remember Ox and Walcott's first games. Instant impact when they played. It was the same with Jack. But once they stop playing of adrenaline, the form dips and they stop developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
He's certainly worth a place in the squad based on a season where's taken plaudits like that - and it's only his second full season as a pro, which looks promising. Of course the Championship is the Championship but I can't recall a player going out on loan and getting such high praise. I agree about the current first team sqaud too and the fact that a swathe of new signings are not going to resolve the issue. The only concern is what Wenger will do with someone like Toral. He's an attacking mid I believe, so a place on the wing could be the only spot he gets a shot at in the near future, which is far from ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I know it's comical, it's like he just erases the 15 games where Giroud went missing in the most crucial part of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Interesting. I've always thought of it as being the evolution of the traditional goal-poacher role, but I can see the inverted winger thing too? I suppose it can be either - I've seen players who come to the role from more of a striking background, and others who were more traditional traditional wingers. The role as it is now demands a bit of both, but I think you can still tell what background the player has come from when you look at them, and both can work in their own way. Pires and Ljungberg are a good example of the difference: Pires was far more of a dribbler and a creative, and was more likely to cut inside onto his stronger foot from a bit further out, whereas Ljungberg was more of a burst-through-the-lines type, as he'd look to overlap the forwards and finish first time. I agree that there's no chance that Walcott was ever being another Pires, but I think he could have made a passable Ljungberg? Doesn't necessarily matter if you're not the best at dribbling - you can work around that by building a solid understanding with your fullback. I never thought Freddie was an amazing dribbler either, but it was never an issue because he knew how to work with Ralphy on the overlap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
With Ramsey and Cesc, I don't have a problem with them being focussed more towards hunting goals, per se - it only becomes a serious problem for me when we put them in central midfield. I just think it's a fundamental mis-match between playing style and the demands of that particular role. As you say, what you want to see in a modern central midfielder is more what we're seeing from Elneny - you need to have the ability to do a bit of everything, but it has to be married to positional discipline and solid judgment. Cesc and Ramsey as attackers? No problem with that at all. Cesc and Ramsey as central midfielders? Doesn't work for me - not with how we've trained them to play.
Very selective memory has Arsene. Its why I am not sure the defeats really hurt him that badly. Yes, during the game and in the immediate aftermath I think it gets to him, but after that it seems to be quickly consigned to just another case of bad luck, conditions were not perfect, poor referee etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I know he has never been in the business of publicly slamming his own players, which I get. But maybe after 20 years of repeating the same sort of thing, he does generally believe what he's saying now.
Yeah, I'd never really heard of him before this season, but he sounds like the kind of player we need in the middle? Heard him likened to Schweinsteiger in terms of style, which sounds promising in as far as it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Not sure where I'd put a CM in our list of priorities? I agree about the desperate need for a striker and a CB, but I also think that our season fell apart alarmingly quickly when we lost Cazorla, and that's not a situation that I'm keen to find ourselves in again. As things currently stand, we'll have 3 senior players who can do that controlling job from CM for next season - Cazorla, Elneny and Wilshere - and of those 3, Cazorla has just done his cruciate at 31 (and may even be looking for one last move - who knows?), and Wilshere is Wilshere! That leaves us with just the new boy as the only option that I have any kind of long-term confidence in. Coq is a different type of player altogether, and Ramsey, IMO, should be classed as an attacker - if we can bring in another proprt central midfielder, then I'm all for it. Not particularly fussed about the order the signings are made in, just as long as they are actually made...
Well 3 of them will be out the door, so we need numbers in there at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Spot on,he gets over bad runs and results very quickly, they never seem to affect for long and one shirt unbeaten run or the odd decent performance for a player are good enough to convince him things are perfect or that a player is good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner23
You can't trust him to see things as they are as he's ridiculously easy to please.
Same goes for Toral as I was saying about Walcott: if he wants to play for this club, at this time, then you take whatever spot is available and make it your own. His preferred role might become available at some point down the line, but at this stage of his career he shouldn't be focussed on anything more than doing the job that the team demands, and making a name for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
I've never really seen minor switches like that as being a problem for talented attackers anyway - the skill set involved is pretty much the same whether you're playing left, right or central: creative passing, accurate shooting, intelligent movement, (ideally) decent dribbling ability, etc. If you think of it as going from point A to point B, where point B is always the opponents goal, then does it really matter that much where point A is? Most attacks are pretty fluid these days anyway, with any attacker popping up anywhere depending on how the play unfolds...
Are there many goal poachers playing wide these days? When you say goal poacher, I think of players play Inzaghi, Owen and Raul. Thomas Muller perhaps for the modern game? I don’t know.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Yes, you’re right to mention Ljungberg and that’s who Wenger has told Theo to base his game on. Freddie wasn’t a dribbler and recall he played a ACM role for Sweden instead of playing the flanks like he did at Arsenal. I guess because he comes from a midfield background he’s more inclined to work his way into the box using other players around him. Thinking about it more, it reminds me of how we’ve tried to use Rosicky on the flanks, Nasri or even Ramsey. But even though these players look more polished than Theo, it never really worked because we’d still have problems breaking a team down. Different era for Freddie. I don’t know how well a Ljunberg type would work for us today. Players like Rosicky, Nasri and Ramsey are more rounded players than Theo. They’re central players that can play wide but that natural inclination to pass just feeds into that overplaying mentality we have. Square pegs in round holes. I don’t know if I’d want that sort of player on the flanks again.
But Theo certainly could have tried to get more involved with the build-up play. I don’t know what’s happened to Theo’s game recently. He’s fully focussed on making runs in around the box instead of trying to work the ball a bit more. It makes him look even more useless. I don’t know why Wenger hasn’t pointed out the low figures on his passing and touch of the ball stats. Or why Theo himself can’t assess a situation for himself and adjust his game. I really don’t know why we have so many players that can’t take the initiative. It really pisses me off. They can’t adjust their game on the fly. They just keeping doing the same crap over and over. We struggling to control the middle of the park but Ramsey continues to show no discipline in his movement and won’t making supporting runs as we see from Elneny. Ozil constantly passing and passing instead of trying to create a shooting opportunity for himself for a change. Giroud spending the whole game trying to wrestle defenders instead of losing his marker and making penetrative runs. Wilshere releasing the ball earlier so he doesn’t injury himself. I don’t know why they’re so brain dead and dull. Wenger is partly to blame but I don’t see him as an inflexible manager that tells these guys to stick to the script or else. So I partly agree with the criticism of the players as well.
Either they're a bunch of fairweather players, the manager can't motivate them or they are drilled and told they have to play this way by Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Watching Leicester was refreshing for me, their players showed so much desire to win and were so well organised and worked so hard, something we never see from our lot. We've had to watch teams with a lack of genuine desire to succeed for years now, you never really see us fighting for every ball, closing down players or making it hard for the opposition, our players are like drones taught to play one way who don't seem to be able to use their brains to adapt to different situations.
Probably all of the above. The few players we have that try to make something happen will leave. The ones that are clearly struggling will plod along until we're forced to sell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Hard to muster enthusiasm for any of this. What's most alarming is how the freshness Iwobi and ElNeny initially brought to the team has vanished. They are now both playing like Wenger players, in other words they are half as effective as before and suddenly they are making the same sort of mistakes as the rest of the team. The contributions they were making that got you out of your seat in appreciation, a rare commodity at Arsenal these days, are on the wane.
Oxlade Chamberlain, I thought he'd go on to be the brightest young talent in the league. Wengerised.
Young Callum Chambers looked excellent when he first arrive. Then he was switched around the place, used in a random fashion and his game has gone the way of the rest. That nonsense about him being a holding midfielder, the same shit Wenger was spouting about Chamberlain. Lunacy of course but par for our particular course. Wengerised.
Campbell. Maybe he's better off dropped. At least he hasn't been assimilated yet and might still have a career in a more football oriented environment. Resisted Wengerisation. Dropped.
Cech. A great keeper of course but I'd have expected so much more input from him over the course of the season. I anticipated him being a massive presence both on the pitch and off. But no signs of it. It's not how it works at Arsenal. Here we have one leader, one ego, one idea, one law. Cech has too much experience under his belt and has won too much, he'll be immune to Wengerisation. All those trophies will be like a vaccine. But we've not extracted all we can from him. He's wasted. Like Ozil, like Alexis.
Walcott. The most Wengerised player of the bunch. You can keep going. One reality emerges. Wenger ruins players unless the player has enough character and ambition to resist. It's about time Wenger was pulled up on his record and some hard questions asked. How much failure can be accepted without serious questions? There's still this myth going around that Wenger is the ideal man to shape a young career. Well where's the evidence? Surely there should be some evidence?
Relating this to the summer transfers, unless we are planning to sign those massive characters who can bring enough individually to overcome the handicap they'll have to suffer with Wenger as a manager, does it really matter who we sign? We all know what will happen to anyone who comes here after a few months under Wenger's (ahem) expert tutelage. Wenger's not changing his system so that's the system anyone who comes here will be forced into, effectively killing their game in the process.
Maybe it's just better to sign nobody and wait this out.
Meanwhile rumours going around of an Alexis/ Ibrahimovic swap deal. I don't see it. Ibra would be way too hot for Wenger to handle, he wouldn't want him within a mile of the place. I mostly mention it because, as expected, the rumours are gathering pace in relation to the winners we have in the squad, Ozil and Alexis. Of course they aren't going to stay here, why would they? The unnatural shit going on at this club isn't part of their nature. They win shit. They need to be at clubs that also want to win. We all saw Wenger celebrating his latest 4th place trophy triumph. Ozil saw it, Alexis saw it, the players across Europe contemplating Arsenal as a destination saw it.
Not much to get enthusiastic about.
It's Wenger. How can there be any doubt? 12 years of this. Different players, makes no difference. It's Wenger. Wenger turns good players into shit players. That's what all the evidence tells us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
The frustrating thing is that it's not even universally true, there are games where we are well organised, attack with verve and desire but the problem is they are few and far between.
Games like Man United, Man City, Bayern Munich, Leicester away, Olympiakos away etc show we are capable of both decent and effective football.
Even at White Hart Lane we put in a good performance and did well to nullify Spurs' pressing game until Coquelin stupidly got himself sent off
But there are too many games where we look like we are going through the motions and just don't care.
I agree. I heard Iwobi and Elneny had terrible games against City. I hope Iwobi doesn't follow tradition. Most of these players have the raw ingredients to succeed but they seem to hit a glass ceiling very early. I forgot about poor Chambers. He'll end up like Jenkinson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It reminds me of the early Cesc era where we'd beat some of the biggest and best teams but look terrible against the smaller teams. It's all a cycle. In fact, this is the worst Arsenal team I've seen play under Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Over the course of a season I can't really disagree, however I'd say specifically the worst I've seen Arsenal play was away from home between August 2005 and May 2007, with the odd exception like winning at old Trafford we scored 40 goals in 38 games lost the majority of games 1-0 because we didn't have the ability to break things down and it was pass, pass, pass lose posession in the opposistion final third.
It was like when we went 1-0 down you could switch off because you knew the outcome. Remember losing 1-0 to Sheffield United when Paddy Kenny the Pilsbury dough boy came off injured and Jagielka was in goal final half hour and not a single save to make....
Wenger writes these things off, comes up with some excuse about how they are anomalies, then he presses on using the same old pattern. That's why we see these terrible low points repeated season after season. The Southampton drubbing. Stuff like that can happen to any team, but not with the regularity it happens at Arsenal. And not with the awful predictability attached. The football is not going to improve because the man in charge doesn't thing there's anything wrong with his team or himself. For him, everyone and everything else is wrong, harsh injustices that deprive his team of the results they are due by some pre-ordained right. That's why despite all the humblings we can still show such arrogance against the "lower" teams. Then he laments we haven't done well enough in the games we should have won. Should have? You have to turn up to win. There's are no freebies and now the new money is in the game Wenger has better get wise, if he still as it in him. Hard times coming for Wenger unless he reevaluates everything and makes the necessary personal and personnel changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Yes, I think I remember patches of that season. The lows were low. Shocking tactics and defending for some games. But I also remember it being the season we’d at least see some sublime stuff. Was it that season RVP scored that sublime volley? We scored some cracking goals and I remember being so impressed with Denilson that season. You could see the potential from the young kids at least. We made it to the Carling Cup final with our kids. Beating Liverpool 6-3 was also a great game to watch. The moves just flowed when we were at our best. I haven’t seen us play anywhere close to that this season. It’s been dire. Not great goals to recall, no cracking games where you can say we played beautiful football….it’s all been disjointed and very basic goals. Nothing really well crafted and worked that gets you off your seat. Not for me anyway. It's been horrible to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Yeah pretty much agree with this, it won't matter who we sign this summer because Wenger is incapable of implementing tactics based on the strengths/weaknesses of the opposition. There is no proper structure to the team, it's as clear as day and night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We'll probably finish in or around the top 4 next season due to the quality of some of our players, yes we do have some very good ones. We'll not win PL or CL ever again under Wenger because his principles and ideals are too pie in the sky and he refuses to adapt or modify his approach.
I personally think if Poch or even Ranieri was in charge of Arsenal this season we would have won the league.
Like I say there are examples where it's clear Wenger seems to have learnt from his errors, where we are clinical in front of goal and then close the game out....and we do what many teams seem to do to us.
But there is such an inconsistency with it, because it's like Wenger thinks "that's not the Arsenal way".
Some games we adopt a pre match tactic but it falls apart because the guy seems not to have any sense of in game management.
It seems to me like there are signs that he is capable of doing what is needed to take the club forward but it's like his stubborness takes over and it becomes not enough to win, he has to win by his rules.
He is definitely not a proactive manager, he used to be but he's too old and set in his ways to want to be an innovator. But his ego wouldn't allow him to delegate more of his weak areas to capable and trusted underlings. There is clearly been something done with the defence by Steve Bould as statistically in the last few years we tend to charge down more than stand off and there are a lot less long shots or shots outside the box (despite this weekend rather treading on the tail of that somewhat) but we are still too passive and indecisive from set pieces and our full backs don't so enough at times to stop crosses.
I honestly think if the board and the man himself hadnt allowed him to become such a demagogue, the last five-ten years would have been a lot more productive for this club. He's not a total incompetent because a total incompetent wouldn't have consistently got us top four but better oversight from the board and a man prepared to take both advice and criticism would have flourished in a decent environment.
Journalists who have known Wenger for years have said he has gradually changed since Dein left the club, more resolute in taking his own counsel, taking things very personally, being stand offish with people. He has created a bubble around himself and the board have helped him doing it.
The first half of the first game against Utd. Direct, decisive football. I remember being pissed about the second half. We relaxed and settled for what we had. Some fans claimed this was sensible, a long season ahead and all that. I never agree with that sentiment. If players can play 90 minutes they shouldn't be here and we should be ambitious (not stupid, but ambitious) for every one of those 90 minutes. When you slack off enough times it becomes a habit and it's sure as hell our favourite habit at Arsenal. It costs us every season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But the first 45 minutes of that game was worth watching.
45 bloody minutes is all we can muster up! :lol: It's been horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'll be honest I was referring specifically to our league games where we scored on average one goal a game off the back of the odd 4-0 win, but mainly couldn't score. It was depressing that you could be 90% sure if you conceded the first goal you weren't coming back into the game. And yes we haven't scored any goal of the season contenders this season but I have to say I prefer average goals to no goals.
Away from home PL - 05/06 and 06/07 combined our record was 13 wins 9 draws and 16 defeats
I don't recall feeling like that. Frustrated but never to the point where I'd lose interest in watching the game or nodding off to sleep. It's hard for me to pick 5 games where we've played really well this season and I think I've heard the same said on Arseblog's podcast and other places. People are switching off because it's that predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
But whatever floats your boat really. It's your preference at the end of the day. This isn't mine. I can't take another season like this.