Summer transfer joy and happiness

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Originally Posted by SMatthews

Man Utd finished second in 2018 - as funny as it is, the mass introspection about their current situation is way off the mark. Panic always sets in when it comes to the media and fans, drawing up doomsday scenarios that rarely come true. They have money, are still a huge draw and will be back - although not under OGS.

And that financial pull is the big difference between the Prem and Serie A. When Inter won the CL years ago they - and the rest of the league - weren't set-up to capitalise off the pitch. The fact the two clubs share the same stadium is also a massive drawback in today's money driven era. The theory is that the Chinese have bought into both clubs because it connects them to Berlusconi and the economic and political heartland of the country - the owners are apparently under pressure from the Chinese government to capitalise on financial opportunities that will benefit their home country.

If Man City aren't reigned in by UEFA - and it's hard to see how they will be given their backers have more money than the governing body - then no-one else will be winning the title any time soon.

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I'm not even taking into account money.

Those clubs refuse to rebuild and just tried to reload instead.

I don’t know what that means.

And money has to be taken account when talking about success in football, there’s no separating the two anymore.

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Originally Posted by Özim

It shouldn't no, but do we just want to be just one of the best losers or do we want to challenge, if we're just interested in top 4 and not interested in winning then yes we can improve the defence with some decent player and settle for that, but if we want to move up a level or two we need to start finding top quality players who can take us there, you're going to need one outstanding CB who can organise the defence to do that.

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I'm not saying we shouldn't identify the best we can get, clearly. I'm saying that finding us out own VDV is nigh on impossible....and even if we did we wouldn't pay the money for him anyway. But nevertheless we can improve in other ways. Plenty of examples of players not of VDV's standard who would improve us.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Plenty of examples of players not of VDV's standard who would improve us.

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this is the key point for me - we could immediately improve by getting reliable quality players who haven't been Wengerised and who turn up and put a good shift in for pretty much every game - and minus the monumnetal goal-conceding fuckups we get from the likes of Xhaka aand Mustafi

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Originally Posted by Mac76

this is the key point for me - we could immediately improve by getting reliable quality players who haven't been Wengerised and who turn up and put a good shift in for pretty much every game - and minus the monumnetal goal-conceding fuckups we get from the likes of Xhaka aand Mustafi

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There are plenty abound. Duff and Dunk (Brighton CB pairing) are better than anyone we have apart from Sok and the late lamented Holding. (Kos is not aggressive enough and too fragile). Basically anyone is better than Mustafi.....apart from the United lot who are also crap. I wouldnt take anyone from their motley crew

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Originally Posted by Özim

Realistically if you want to rebuild slowly you have to buy young players who are going to be around for years, otherwise if you bring older players and especially players in their late 20s which seems to be what we seem to be interested in (very short sighted and costly IMO) you'll constantly have to replace ageing players, Klopp pretty much did it in 2-3 seasons, there's really no reason why we shouldn't be able to rebuild in 3 seasons.

First stage is to get rid of the duds and not offer them new contracts, offering Xhaka a new contract last summer was ridiculous, he's never going to make it and is a liability.

What strikes me about Arsenal is that it's full of excuses, when Wenger was around it was the fact we were paying for a new stadium, then that we had a young team and it will take a bit of time for them to get experience, then it was that other clubs had too much money, there's also been excuses about injuries (when in reality maybe our medical team wasn't up to scratch, out training seemed to cause injuries and we brought in and stuck with injury prone players) and now it's that the owner won't spend and we need to spend years rebuilding.

When does it end, what will it be next? Personally I'm tired excuses, I don't want another manager who sticks around for years and doesn't deliver with everyone being happy with scraping 4th. I'm alarmed that Sanelhi and co are delighted with Emery's work, to me that's the sign of a club stuck in mediocrity, failing to get top 4 in such a poor season isn't great, yes we've got to a European final but we've really stuttered along the way and as we know this competition isn't full of top quality teams, so we've not exactly had to beat amazing teams.

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Pretty good post that summarizes us in a nutshell.... a club full of excuses!

You don't need to shell out a +100 million to improve a defence, you need 3 or 4 good players that know how to play in sync and a coach who knows what he wants, simple. Its like in modern day football people think money is everything and readily give excuses for coaches who don't have loads of it. Cut your coat according to your cloth... Wolves finished as the 4th best defence in the country with players bought on a shoestring budget. Even the circus that is Newcastle conceeded less than us and anyone who knows anything about football could have predicted that a Rafa team of midgets would still be able to defend to a certain "advanced" level.

We know what our onfield problems are, in fact every EPL team has known/exploited it for the past few years; it's this coach's job to fix them with the resources he has available, resources he was well aware of before he took the job. No more excuses pls.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

There are plenty abound. Duff and Dunk (Brighton CB pairing) are better than anyone we have apart from Sok and the late lamented Holding. (Kos is not aggressive enough and too fragile). Basically anyone is better than Mustafi.....apart from the United lot who are also crap. I wouldnt take anyone from their motley crew

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I always marvelled at AW's inabilty to recruit a decent domestic CB after the coup that was Sol.

It really confused me how a so called world class coach would watch his team get battered year after year, in a league known for producing great CBs, by the most basic of teams, playing the most basic of attacking styles. I still struggle to understand why his go-to response was to recruit an unnamed defender from an unfamiliar league in a mid level team that had won or was known for nothing!! (Merts being the only exception I can think of)

Its like choosing to die slowly of hypoglycemia in a candy shop!

Anyway I hope Emery is smart enough not to tread the same path.

As much as we roll our eyes at the diabolical machine that is Man City.....someone the other day made a simple but good point on a radio station I was listening to. When they lose the ball, they give everything to win it back. There's no reason any other team can't do that. Of course you are more incentivised to do it if you have a genuine chance to win the league and your manager is Guardiola who would kick his Gran to the ground to win a game....but still. Money doesn't directly buy that kind of work ethic. ]

If we do nothing else to the team and defence other than to get them to run like maniacs when they've lost the ball....then Emery will improve us defensively.

Wengers problem as ever was his fragile ego. If everyone says he has a poor defence. He will make sure that in the next window he buys midfielders or an attacker. If you tell him Maldini is available. He will buy Stepanovs to prove he can find his own Maldini. He is a man who held on to his job so tight, he squeezed the life out of it.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Its like choosing to die slowly of hypoglycemia in a candy shop!

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

As much as we roll our eyes at the diabolical machine that is Man City.....someone the other day made a simple but good point on a radio station I was listening to. When they lose the ball, they give everything to win it back. There's no reason any other team can't do that. Of course you are more incentivised to do it if you have a genuine chance to win the league and your manager is Guardiola who would kick his Gran to the ground to win a game....but still. Money doesn't directly buy that kind of work ethic. ]

If we do nothing else to the team and defence other than to get them to run like maniacs when they've lost the ball....then Emery will improve us defensively.

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:good:

The crazy thing is, if the whole team does it as a collective, then no single, individual player actually has to work that hard or run that far - each player only really has to cover something like their own 15sq yard of space before they’re moving into one of their team mate’s ‘zones’. Put them all together and you have a grid

It really is more about mindset and mental conditioning than anything that requires superhuman levels of fitness or defensive technique: stay alert, keep your eye on the game and be ready to get under someone’s feet if they move onto your patch...

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

As much as we roll our eyes at the diabolical machine that is Man City.....someone the other day made a simple but good point on a radio station I was listening to. When they lose the ball, they give everything to win it back. There's no reason any other team can't do that. Of course you are more incentivised to do it if you have a genuine chance to win the league and your manager is Guardiola who would kick his Gran to the ground to win a game....but still. Money doesn't directly buy that kind of work ethic. ]

If we do nothing else to the team and defence other than to get them to run like maniacs when they've lost the ball....then Emery will improve us defensively.

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Also the pressure is on the players as if you aren't going to put the effort in, City will find someone else who would. The fact Sane isn't a regular starter is ridiculous where he would be one of our best players.

it doesn't bother me what City have done, because they are so enjoyable to watch.

There are consequences at City for sure and everyone is held to account if standards are not met. That’s something I think we lost sight of as a club a long time ago, they are the building blocks of success as far as I’m concerned. If you don’t keep the bar high you’ll never go on to be successful.

However for City those consequences have only been so stern because they have the financial muscle to chop and change as they please, in a way we and most other clubs simply can’t.

When you’re paying big money for a player you aren’t just paying for talent. You’re paying for mentality.

You can’t build a team on a budget that can sustainably challenge for the PL anymore. Most players have the same level of talent at the top of the game, it’s the mentality that separates the best from the rest. That’s what allows the very best players to bring their A game each week.

We can improve without spending hundreds of millions but we won’t improve THAT much. The best we can achieve on a small budget is third - which was all of 2 points away at the end of last season.

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Originally Posted by SMatthews

When you’re paying big money for a player you aren’t just paying for talent. You’re paying for mentality.

You can’t build a team on a budget that can sustainably challenge for the PL anymore. Most players have the same level of talent at the top of the game, it’s the mentality that separates the best from the rest. That’s what allows the very best players to bring their A game each week.

We can improve without spending hundreds of millions but we won’t improve THAT much. The best we can achieve on a small budget is third - which was all of 2 points away at the end of last season.

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yeah city we cant compete with but we should be looking at the Liverpool model and following that.... IF the owners were interested. I know that took time to develop but buying and selling and coaching can help.

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Originally Posted by Bumble

yeah city we cant compete with but we should be looking at the Liverpool model and following that.... IF the owners were interested. I know that took time to develop but buying and selling and coaching can help.

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That would still mean operating above the level we currently seem to be set at. Granted, they did lay out £100m on two strikers and two crazy contracts, so we can do it. The money just has to be spent well. Which it hasn’t been for a while.

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Originally Posted by Bumble

yeah city we cant compete with but we should be looking at the Liverpool model and following that.... IF the owners were interested. I know that took time to develop but buying and selling and coaching can help.

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We should be way ahead of Liverpool, we had the stadium, the paltform to build from, then Wenger went on a one man crusade to save football by not spending and building a team of kids and the rest is history.

We messed up our chance, we were all set to compete with the big boys now we've missed our chance and have to settle for scraps and watch other teams who have planned far better do what we should have been doing.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

I'm not saying we shouldn't identify the best we can get, clearly. I'm saying that finding us out own VDV is nigh on impossible....and even if we did we wouldn't pay the money for him anyway. But nevertheless we can improve in other ways. Plenty of examples of players not of VDV's standard who would improve us.

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It’s possible - we’re just not going to be acquiring a finished product at the £75m end of the market (not until we’re back to being a consistent CL side again, anyway). For now, we need to be shooting for a Celtic-VVD, rather than a established-PL-VVD. Maybe even a pre-Celtic VVD? In all honesty, City and Liverpool are probably going to dominate this league for a couple of years yet, so I’m kind of ok with taking on a bit of a project with the right player.

As with everything with us right now, though, it all seems to hinge on how the club is being restructured. To pull something like that off we need to: hire a TD and head of recruitment who can spot the right players; improve the coaching and mentoring; and probably get the wage bill under control (so we can afford to ride out any non-CL years without needing to sell off half the squad before the job is done).

Trying to find a young up and coming CB would be our best best, someone who could potentially become top class, from the names we're being linked with so far it's been older players however which is a mistake IMO.

We don't seem to be able to get the balance right, when Wenger was about he signed all the young players he could but none had any experience or had shown any real talent at a decent level, now we seem to be after older players who will need replacing sooner rather than later (Sokratis is already 31 for example), we should be looking for young up and coming players or players around their mid 20s if we want to build a decent team.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Trying to find a young up and coming CB would be our best best, someone who could potentially become top class, from the names we're being linked with so far it's been older players however which is a mistake IMO.

We don't seem to be able to get the balance right, when Wenger was about he signed all the young players he could but none had any experience or had shown any real talent at a decent level, now we seem to be after older players who will need replacing sooner rather than later (Sokratis is already 31 for example), we should be looking for young up and coming players or players around their mid 20s if we want to build a decent team.

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i agree - i actually think we're only one good CB away from having a decent defence if we have Holding coming back and also if you assume Bielik might be good enough, which i've a suspicion he is

i keep saying it, but just as important is not ever giving Emery the option of playing Mustafi ever again - he is a fucking disaster area - beats me why the rest of the team haven't frozen him out by now - his fuckups against Palace alone cost us the top four then and there

he just HAS to go

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Originally Posted by Mac76

i agree - i actually think we're only one good CB away from having a decent defence if we have Holding coming back and also if you assume Bielik might be good enough, which i've a suspicion he is

i keep saying it, but just as important is not ever giving Emery the option of playing Mustafi ever again - he is a fucking disaster area - beats me why the rest of the team haven't frozen him out by now - his fuckups against Palace alone cost us the top four then and there

he just HAS to go

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The fullbacks need a lot of work too, IMO - at the moment we’re shelling out around £400k/week on Bellerin, Kolasinac, Monreal and Lichsteiner, and yet somehow Maitland-Niles has ended up doing most of the work! Definitely not getting value for money there...

So Gabriel Martinelli to us is everywhere saying deal done.

No idea who he is, but apparently #decent

Didn't she win the US Open?

Let's hope he's better than the last Gabriel we signed :pray:

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Didn't she win the US Open?

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In that case at least we will have signed a player with a lot of balls

We need to get in quick as we've got big competition for this guy with no less than Watford, Leeds and Middlesborough after him!

Don't know anything about him, just hope he's a decent tricky winger if we do get him.

I hope he’s not a former post man

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Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72

I hope he’s not a former post man

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Presumably Letters would know if he is... :rimshot:

I see what you've done there.

I think we need to start bringing some of the younger players in on a more regular basis this season. The old heads have proven to be the same old shit and the younglings will more likely have the hunger and desire to do well.

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Originally Posted by Aubameyang's Wang

I think we need to start bringing some of the younger players in on a more regular basis this season. The old heads have proven to be the same old shit and the younglings will more likely have the hunger and desire to do well.

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Yeah given we can't spend much we need to using Nelson, Saka, Willock, Medley etc

Looking ahead further, I really hope next season's fixture list gives us a gentler start then Man City followed by Chelsea away, a (hopefully) revamped Arsenal side with some of the younger players will benefit from some early momentum

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Originally Posted by Aubameyang's Wang

I think we need to start bringing some of the younger players in on a more regular basis this season. The old heads have proven to be the same old shit and the younglings will more likely have the hunger and desire to do well.

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I really don’t see what we have to lose at this point? Let’s be honest, we’re already an erratic, inconsistent shambles who are being hindered by a bunch of players who haven’t mastered the basics - I’m sure we can achieve much the same thing with a bunch of younger players who won’t cost us an extra £70-100m a year in wages for the privilege!

We should have blooded the likes of Saka, Willock and Nketiah more this season as early as January. We knew our season was over, and should have started prepping for the new season as early as possible. Another failure in planning IMO.

All too familiar I'm afraid.

Willock looked fantastic against the Chavs in the final, full of pace and desire. We needed some of that during the season and maybe we would have been better off!

If he is the standard we can expect from the younger players that are earmarked for success, then damn well bring them on I say!!

It's time for a new era, we sell the dross, bring in some new players and youngsters and let them have a full season crack at it.

We have been embarrassed beyond belief for a long time, what else is there to lose at this point?

Just hope that if they do come in...they are given the patience needed and that we don't expect them to be consistently good.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Just hope that if they do come in...they are given the patience needed and that we don't expect them to be consistently good.

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A tough ask for the internet.

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Just hope that if they do come in...they are given the patience needed and that we don't expect them to be consistently good.

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It might not be 100% popular, but at least this time it might be universally viewed as a necessary measure to take us forward again, and not just a self-inflicted vanity project that is holding us back? That might make all the difference in terms of achieving acceptance amongst the fan base, and I expect any grumbling would be directed at the owners and the people running the club, rather than the players.

Personally speaking, I think the kids would already have succeeded before they even stepped on the pitch, if they help free up that extra 50-70m from the wage bill (plus whatever we make in sales) to reinvest - they’ll be giving us the means and the freedom to rebuild over the next 2-3 years, so as long as they’re not so bad that they get us relegated, I’ll be happy to back them...

Talk of a £300k a week offer for Auba from China.

Whether true or not, it brings into focus something I’ve mentioned a few times. If the club are staying true to their word, there’s a decision to be made about Auba. Two years left on his contract. Are they going to give him a new contract? Can we afford to, given the situation with money and Micky and Ozil’s contracts? If not, are we going to sell him as the club said we would with players in this situation? No one seems to be talking about this anywhere which I find odd.

Surely one of these Chinese clubs could take Ozil off our hands.

If we could somehow lose Ozil, Xhaka and Mkhitaryan without it costing us to much it would be amazing, all 3 are liabilities we could do without. I'd settle with losing all of those for free without having to pay off thie contracts, I'd even settle for us paying some of it just to get rid of these guys.