Summer Transfer Misery 2017/18

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

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A Wenger apologist who only dives in to attack the messenger whenever his French fancy man is criticised. The rather transparent disguise is the odd, I wanted him sacked, I wanted him sacked comment. And then everything else is, oh please be reasonable, oh lets wait and see, oh we won the FA Cup, oh we finished 5th, but who can we replace Wenger with, there's nobody, but Wenger built the stadium with his bare hands.

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case. Unfortunately I'm a stupid cunt and it took me a lot longer to twig. And some still haven't.

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

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Wenger told beIN SPORTS about Sanchez's failed move to be reunited with Pep Guardiola: 'It was not very close, it's very difficult for me to speak about that because what I want now is the player to focus on his career, on his season and Arsenal.

'I always think first, make sure that my commitment is at the level that is expected from people paying me and have confidence in me. On the player's side it is exactly the same.'

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Not very close? The gypos tell a completely different story and Alexis was sitting with their representatives waiting to sign. That the player we said we were not selling under any circumstances, sitting there waiting to sign after we accepted the gypos bid. The same player it now emerges we were talking with the gypos about for months, always intending to sell.

So Wenger, stop lying you cunt.

"I will not talk about this, except to beIN sports who I whored my arse out to on deadline day when I should have been at work justifying my 10 million quid salary."

The only reason the gypos didn't land their target was because they were relying on the Keystone Cops at our gaff to sign a replacement. We had from Tuesday to do it but we waiting until the bloke was warming up for a fucking world cup qualifier to start the ball rolling.

I take it back. It's better when this bloke doesn't speak because all that comes out of his gob is lies.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Well stop posting here then.

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But then I'd have to try and find some real friends :(

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Already you've gone wrong and just jumped into a counter argument without thinking about what you originally said. Weigh up words vs actions. You always seem to suggest nothing is being done and it's quite clear a lot is going on behind the scenes but it's still not enough to bring the desired results. I didn't suggest he's a genius operator. I don't even care if what he's done is obvious to most people. That's not the argument. The question is, has he tried to do something or has he sat back and ignored the fans concerns. On evidence I see, we have made changes to our set up. If he's all talk we wouldn't see structural changes at all.

You're entitled to your opinion on Gazidis, but if you're going to provide a real counter argument and not just arguing for the sake of it, it would make sense to establish who pushed for these changes at the club and why they haven't been as effective as they should have been. Is it Wenger pushing for these changes? Is it Stan? Again, I haven't argued that it's taken a genius to work out that we need to address these problems, I'm arguing that someone is paying attention to the criticism and trying to address it with action and not just words.

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Bringing in a couple of coaches, one of whom left the club because he had his hands tied is not evidence of much more than token effort that is not serious structural change.

Maybe he did plot serious structural change behind the scenes, but he got as we both know totally outmanuevered by Wenger. And all you are left is wondering is why someone who is apparently so savvy and talented doesn't have enough self respect to think fine I'm off. Chips Keswick you can understand he knew what the deal was when he stepped in for that old coffin dodger Hill Wood.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Unfortunately, whether Gazidis has been fighting or lying down is neither here nor there in the grand scheme, and I tend to think he has been fighting. The fact he hasn't resigned makes him as bad as Wenger in my book. As soon as that cunt Wenger ran of whining to Stan, Gazidis should have said fine, you want to keep this prick? Well keep him and I'm off. That would have done more for Arsenal in one hit than anything he can do behind the scenes with both arms tied behind his back. How can he possibly put up with this situation, if he is not to some degree at least complicit?

They all need to go. And none of them will go.

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How? If you believe he's fighting, don't we need someone pushing for change at that level? If he were to walk, who comes in to replace him? It would be left to Wenger to pick his own boss and he'll pick someone that won't try to challenge him. I'm sure if we left Wenger to do the CEO job, he'd play down our ambitions and attempt to stifle expectations instead of play them up. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the club can claim we have no money left to spend and fans just believe him. They'd still be playing the stadium repayment card if they could.

Also, I think a lot of people are leaning too heavily on this idea that Gazidis should walk as if his pride should be hurt and as if you need integrity for what he does. He's not as bad a Wenger. Not even close. Wenger is an athlete and I've laid out my argument before about why a sportsman like Wenger should walk away from the job. The lack of silverware and not being able to win should crush his professional pride. Gazidis is a suit. It's not the same. He could be a spineless, weasel of a man that only cares about himself and his goals. We've seen plenty of suits like that in the corporate world. But that doesn't mean such people can't do the job that's required of them. They're more than willing to schmooze and scheme their way to the top for self interest. So why would a man with with that sort of character walk away from Arsenal after losing one power battle with Wenger?

Forget the fans. Even if he's only looking out for number one, walking away with a bloody nose doesn't make sense, especially if Wenger's stupid enough to still want to work with him after seeing him try to slip the knife in his back. Walking away may prove a point to some fans, but it might not. I'm sure he'd be accused of cowardice if handing in his notice either way. But the point is, we don't need a nice guy in that role. If he's prepared to look weak one day to come back strong the next, it really doesn't matter if the purpose is to get one over Wenger and get him out.

Again, not saying this is all what I believe him to be, just thinking about the sort of slime that usually operate in that world.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

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They slaughtered Xhaka Khan on the Tuesday Club. All true though. Worth listening to the latest Arseblog podcast. Has Tayo from the Tuesday Club joined along with the yankee, Elliot from Arsenal Vision Podcast. Elliot made some great points from what I've heard so far.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Bringing in a couple of coaches, one of whom left the club because he had his hands tied is not evidence of much more than token effort that is not serious structural change.

Maybe he did plot serious structural change behind the scenes, but he got as we both know totally outmanuevered by Wenger. And all you are left is wondering is why someone who is apparently so savvy and talented doesn't have enough self respect to think fine I'm off. Chips Keswick you can understand he knew what the deal was when he stepped in for that old coffin dodger Hill Wood.

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You're not really raising any relevant points or new information. You have no way to back up your points.

If bringing in new coaches isn't serious structural change, remind me of what's been said about Arsenal's backroom staff and men Wenger has kept around? A token move? If it were a token move, Jonker would have stayed on as Head of Youth for the easy money. But instead, he jumped at the opportunity to manage Wolfsburg.

Define serious structural change and how should we go about changing the culture of the club with Wenger in charge and Stan being part of his cult?

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

How? If you believe he's fighting, don't we need someone pushing for change at that level? If he were to walk, who comes in to replace him? It would be left to Wenger to pick his own boss and he'll pick someone that won't try to challenge him. I'm sure if we left Wenger to do the CEO job, he'd play down our ambitions and attempt to stifle expectations instead of play them up. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the club can claim we have no money left to spend and fans just believe him. They'd still be playing the stadium repayment card if they could.

Also, I think a lot of people are leaning too heavily on this idea that Gazidis should walk as if his pride should be hurt and as if you need integrity for what he does. He's not as bad a Wenger. Not even close. Wenger is an athlete and I've laid out my argument before about why a sportsman like Wenger should walk away from the job. The lack of silverware and not being able to win should crush his professional pride. Gazidis is a suit. It's not the same. He could be a spineless, weasel of a man that only cares about himself and his goals. We've seen plenty of suits like that in the corporate world. But that doesn't mean such people can't do the job that's required of them. They're more than willing to schmooze and scheme their way to the top for self interest. So why would a man with with that sort of character walk away from Arsenal after losing one power battle with Wenger?

Forget the fans. Even if he's only looking out for number one, walking away with a bloody nose doesn't make sense, especially if Wenger's stupid enough to still want to work with him after seeing him try to slip the knife in his back. Walking away may prove a point to some fans, but it might not. I'm sure he'd be accused of cowardice if handing in his notice either way. But the point is, we don't need a nice guy in that role. If he's prepared to look weak one day to come back strong the next, it really doesn't matter if the purpose is to get one over Wenger and get him out.

Again, not saying this is all what I believe him to be, just thinking about the sort of slime that usually operate in that world.

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I probably overstated it when I said fighting. Dissenting might be closer to the mark.

Why would Gazidis walk rather than weasel his way to the top? Because he's already supposedly at the top. The senior executive at the club. And even with all his weasel ways he ends up impotent. I've seen execs quit just for having their decision questioned in a meeting. The corporate world is all about pecking order and deference. Once the founder has gone you tend to get left with shitty functionaries who know how to steer a ship but wouldn't have the first clue how to build one or repair it when it breaks down. If Gazidis has tried yet failed then that failure has to be judged as absolute. He's demonstrated he'll never have the influence to do anything significant so he's literally pointless. He made his play and came up short, apparently against a saint of a man who loves the club and the people. Yeah right, is that the sort of man who prevails in these confrontations. The dirtiest, shittiest, double dealing scumbag tends to come out on top. Not a pride thing with Gazidis, it's a power thing. Plainly he has none so it would be better to get somebody else in who might be an even bigger cunt than Wenger. Worth a try. Instead they have chosen to present a pathetic unified front, as if their spats in the media never happened. Imagine if Gazidis had said, well I tried but that cunt Wenger won't listen to reason and is against all notion of change, wouldn't that be some pretty nice ammo to pound the two bastards who remain? And of course Gazidis would have to resign if he told the truth. But he wants the cash, he's prepared to admit the job is bigger than him in return for it and that he's Wenger's bitch. His choice. Castrated. Loser. I guess he fits in now.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

They slaughtered Xhaka Khan on the Tuesday Club. All true though. Worth listening to the latest Arseblog podcast. Has Tayo from the Tuesday Club joined along with the yankee, Elliot from Arsenal Vision Podcast. Elliot made some great points from what I've heard so far.

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3 games in a row. Identical mistakes. That's a terminal problem, especially under a manager like Wenger. We paid more for this guy than we initially bid for Lemar. Wenger claims he understand value?

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Originally Posted by Letters

But then I'd have to try and find some real friends :(

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The only thing we have in common.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

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Ancient history includes the same timeframe Zim was talking about?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

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What like Lemar in this very window? I don't know what people on podcasts are talking about most of the time.

If they mean the players we do buy, Wenger has already got them gooey-eyed by that point somehow, so they aren't going to consider anybody else.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I probably overstated it when I said fighting. Dissenting might be closer to the mark.

Why would Gazidis walk rather than weasel his way to the top? Because he's already supposedly at the top. The senior executive at the club. And even with all his weasel ways he ends up impotent. I've seen execs quit just for having their decision questioned in a meeting. The corporate world is all about pecking order and deference. Once the founder has gone you tend to get left with shitty functionaries who know how to steer a ship but wouldn't have the first clue how to build one or repair it when it breaks down. If Gazidis has tried yet failed then that failure has to be judged as absolute. He's demonstrated he'll never have the influence to do anything significant so he's literally pointless. He made his play and came up short, apparently against a saint of a man who loves the club and the people. Yeah right, is that the sort of man who prevails in these confrontations. The dirtiest, shittiest, double dealing scumbag tends to come out on top. Not a pride thing with Gazidis, it's a power thing. Plainly he has none so it would be better to get somebody else in who might be an even bigger cunt than Wenger. Worth a try. Instead they have chosen to present a pathetic unified front, as if their spats in the media never happened. Imagine if Gazidis had said, well I tried but that cunt Wenger won't listen to reason and is against all notion of change, wouldn't that be some pretty nice ammo to pound the two bastards who remain? And of course Gazidis would have to resign if he told the truth. But he wants the cash, he's prepared to admit the job is bigger than him in return for it and that he's Wenger's bitch. His choice. Castrated. Loser. I guess he fits in now.

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Gazidis leaving and making such a statement would get people on here taking but not much else. What's the ammo? Who has the gun? What are they going to do with it? It's a lot of noise and empty threats. The fans and media can play their part but we still need someone inside the club that can actually make a play for Wenger's job. I can't see Wenger and Stan appointing anyone else that could pro ideas a threat to them. There is reason why Henry wasn't allowed to coach here and it makes sense for them to usher Jonker out of the door. That's two members of staff with eyes for a managerial role. It is the opposite of people like Bould who has openly declared that he doesn't want the manager role. That's no ambition.

Also, Ivan hasn't got the top job. It seems like it in name but he doesn't have the influence. This story will develop and we'll continue to hear more information. But from what I can see, Wenger is the one resistant to change and he's managed to fend off potential threats. I don't think he'll survive another two years.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Ancient history includes the same timeframe Zim was talking about?

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Zim, like most of us do, bring up old Arsenal related news and occurrences. Letters is spending his time digging out the dead GW site to try and discredit Zim. :lol: He looks ridiculous. Zim can be over the top and extreme with his views but we don't need Letters to dig up old shit to know that.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

A Wenger apologist who only dives in to attack the messenger whenever his French fancy man is criticised. The rather transparent disguise is the odd, I wanted him sacked, I wanted him sacked comment. And then everything else is, oh please be reasonable, oh lets wait and see, oh we won the FA Cup, oh we finished 5th, but who can we replace Wenger with, there's nobody, but Wenger built the stadium with his bare hands.

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case. Unfortunately I'm a stupid cunt and it took me a lot longer to twig. And some still haven't.

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:gp: by the way.

Shouldn't Zim and Letters have something to agree on now?

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

What like Lemar in this very window? I don't know what people on podcasts are talking about most of the time.

If they mean the players we do buy, Wenger has already got them gooey-eyed by that point somehow, so they aren't going to consider anybody else.

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If he was a real transfer target he'd be signed up. He never was.

Wenger is a cunt.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Zim, like most of us do, bring up old Arsenal related news and occurrences. Letters is spending his time digging out the dead GW site to try and discredit Zim. :lol: He looks ridiculous. Zim can be over the top and extreme with his views but we don't need Letters to dig up old shit to know that.

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Quite impressive how after defending Wenger for years, Letters has found something on Zim that allows him to showcase this debacle of Wengers last 13 years as a victory for him.
LedumbProf himself would be proud. We are truly in an ideal situation.

Letters clearly picked a bad example, as actually for once given what I remember of the time Zim wrote that...it wasn't an unreasonable sentiment to be losing faith in someone who had gone from the unbeaten season to balless defeats peppered everywhere.

The broader point is that Zim seems to dine out on his exaggerations. And it's hard not to roll your eyes at times.

We all reached our conclusions about Wenger at different times, I reached mine in 2011.

Even now I still don't hate Wenger, I resent him for what he's doing being so selfish and arrogant. We've always been known as a team that "didn't like it up em". But now on top of that actual spineless capitulations and shockingly bad football which fans are paying a premium for.

He isn't stupid it's not that he doesn't recognise that. He just won't do anything to fix it because everything has to be done his way and he doesn't want to challenge his players.

If he was as tough and ruthless with his players as Ferguson was than I doubt we'd be seeing this decline so badly. Ferguson himself wasn't a tactical genius, but he knew when to delegate, when to change things and was a great motivator.

Wenger doesn't like confrontation so could never be like that.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case.

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And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive :lol:
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

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I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases

1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.

Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.

The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so" :lol:. If you take the same position on a subject, especially one like this where fortunes tend to fluctuate then you will always be able to declare yourself "right" at some point. People can lie about my opinions if they like but I'm not going to defend what Wenger is doing now and haven't done. But I will argue against stupid comments about him being our "worst manager ever" and "13 years of failure" or start questioning whether he was ever any good in the first place. Those are stupid comments and deserve ridicule.

You guys can't talk about 'nuance' and 'over simplification' in Zim's posts if you're only reacting to one or two click bait lines from a post and ignoring context.

Gilberto was a good player with Vieria in a 4-4-2. That combination worked. With Cesc in a 4-4-2, he was terrible. The system was terrible. Can anyone deny that? It took a while for Wenger to figure out that he can't play those two players together in a 4-4-2. We were getting bullied and overrun. Gilberto wasn't a bulldozing all action DM and Cesc was a lightweight on defence that needed protecting.

In today's squad, it would be like trying to play Ozil and Xhaka in a 4-4-2. Even when changing to a 4-5-1 and the Gilberto/Cesc combo starts working better, he'd start to make odd choices, like playing Cesc on the wing, Eboue on the wing, Senderos as right back, Diaby on the wing....bench Gilberto all together and move Cesc to playing as a number 10 and put players behind Cesc that don't have the skill to recycle the ball effectively....hence, the birth of Tip Tap football.

All hallmarks to the sort of problems we see today. Back then, we used to blame the players and the Board because we thought Wenger was being forced to make odd decisions because of money restrictions. So early criticism of Wenger would often get waved away. It was true to extent because we couldn't spend what our rivals spent. But there were obvious flaws in Wenger's tactical thinking back then and it's clear now that the problem is the way he thinks and sees the game. I can't fault Zim for spotting that early. A lot of his earlier gripes were about team selection and the sort of performances we're getting from certain players and our transfer policy.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases

1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.

Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.

The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so" :lol:. If you take the same position on a subject, especially one like this where fortunes tend to fluctuate then you will always be able to declare yourself "right" at some point. People can lie about my opinions if they like but I'm not going to defend what Wenger is doing now and haven't done. But I will argue against stupid comments about him being our "worst manager ever" and "13 years of failure" or start questioning whether he was ever any good in the first place. Those are stupid comments and deserve ridicule.

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This the the problem. Key points in bold. You say Wenger has always had these flaws when looking back. It was hard for you to see when we were winning. So why continue to hammer away at another poster because he's always seen the flaws and never been afraid to voice them? Why call it revisionism if you're now looking back and seeing the flaws but couldn't see them back then?

Also, it's not just a case of Zim just saying 'Wenger Out' for 10 years. If you look at that post, he's talking about inexperienced players not being ready, failing to replace ageing players, not buying experienced quality, all stuff we've agreed with and repeat today. You're mate, GP, laughs about the Gilbert comment below....

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He has failed to bring in quality experienced players (last summer and in January) and instead brought in more kids, we have plenty and most of the time they don;t cut it. The best kids tend to come through our ranks like Gilbert!

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but fails to see how relevant this comment still is. I remember when Gilbert was first getting games and he looked the business. A year or two later it went downhill for him. Isn't that what happened to Jack Wilshere and Gibbs? Haven't we seen that with Iwobi and Bellerin? An explosive start but now things are starting to go sour. We're still signing inexperienced kids and none of have turned out well for us. Ox, Chambers, Jenkinson, Campbell, Walcott.....all these examples of seen before and it's still going on now. Everyone is singing Nelson's praises now but how knows what will happen with him here.

Again, I don't think you can accuse anyone of lacking nuance if you're only looking at debating the extreme comments. That's not a problem with this place, it's problem with you picking out a base level argument and hammering away at it for 10 years or so. It's not just Zim either. Someone can put together an intricate and sophisticated argument and you'll take the most meaningless, throw away comment from that post, quote it out of context from the body of the argument and decide to tackle that one point. That's not a problem with this place. You have plenty to choose from when it comes to an interesting debate. Heck, I still dont know why Zim triggers you so much.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Wenger is a cunt.

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:haha:

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Originally Posted by Letters

And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive :lol:
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.

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You're such a shockingly dishonest and petty individual. If you'd have added the entire quote it would reverse the context and obliterate the point you are trying to scribble. Which is why you picked half the quote.

And I didn't utter one single lie about your, what did you call them, opinions? That's ambitious. I wish somebody had the time to trawl through your posts like you are doing to others. If they categorised them into certain types of post is would be massively illustrative and incredibly embarrassing for you. The kill the messenger posts, the attack and redirect posts, the one liner wind-up efforts, and the endless, endless parrying you do for Wenger.

In fairness I think it's always been obvious Wenger wasn't a great tactician and with the exception of the odd season here and there was never particularly proactive or successful in the transfer market.

The difference between then and now is the constant use of social media. What we liked and didn't like about him was discussed in the pub with mates.

And from what I remember. I don't think anyone was too sure about him until we clinched the first double.

Just as I remember even going back 10-11 years Zim was hardly a lone voice in criticising Wengers team selection and match tactics.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

You're such a shockingly dishonest and petty individual. If you'd have added the entire quote it would reverse the context and obliterate the point you are trying to scribble. Which is why you picked half the quote.

And I didn't utter one single lie about your, what did you call them, opinions? That's ambitious. I wish somebody had the time to trawl through your posts like you are doing to others. If they categorised them into certain types of post is would be massively illustrative and incredibly embarrassing for you. The kill the messenger posts, the attack and redirect posts, the one liner wind-up efforts, and the endless, endless parrying you do for Wenger.

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:lol: Does it all the time.

Word starting to come out today about how badly we fucked up the Lemar transfer. Story goes that Law and Wenger WENT ON HOLIDAY in the middle of the negotiations and left the player, his representatives and Monaco hanging in thin air. Can't confirm it yet but hopefully somebody will dig and get the full details out. Another claim is we told Alexis we'd accepted the bid from the gypos but did not tell him it was dependant on signing Lemar at the 11th hour. So Alexis was under the impression the deal was done, a team was over in Chile to finalise the deal, but we left them sitting there and never contacted them again, the window closed and that was that.

:haha:

Sounds like we've managed to piss off every single club, person, player involved in both these deals. And yet we bent over and took it right up the hole from Liverpool when they came calling for Ox.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

In fairness I think it's always been obvious Wenger wasn't a great tactician and with the exception of the odd season here and there was never particularly proactive or successful in the transfer market.

The difference between then and now is the constant use of social media. What we liked and didn't like about him was discussed in the pub with mates.

And from what I remember. I don't think anyone was too sure about him until we clinched the first double.

Just as I remember even going back 10-11 years Zim was hardly a lone voice in criticising Wengers team selection and match tactics.

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I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we're all guilty of it to varying degrees. But blind devotion is not a wonderful thing and way, way too many of us were guilty of that for way way too long. Wenger and the club surfed it all the way to where we are now. A 10 year, slo motion train wreck with more and more passengers losing their blissful and snooty smiles and replacing them with masks of pure horror as the reality started dawning.

Some people are now saying the criticism of Wenger is being exaggerated. I'd love to know how? Worst manager in the world? The challenge still stands. Name a single manager who is worse, as things stand today and not based on events of 20 years ago, sticks of broccoli or Thierry Henry. Who, in world football, is fucking up more than Wenger? Name somebody. Who is playing their players out of position? Who is leaving their new signings on the bench for big games? Who is grubbing around for profits in the transfer window? Who is ruining young players to such a comprehensive degree? Who lies as much? The list could go on and on and on. He fucks up EVERYTHING. Again, no exaggeration.

And it was obvious it was coming. But of course, as fans, we'll be the blindest and most trusting of all. That's probably why some are still clinging to Wenger. They can't admit what the rest of us have had to admit, just how blind and gullible we've been.

The amusing part is watching Letters slow, incremental descent from blind devotion to pretend distant detachment.
It started with " I won't hear a bad thing said about him" to
" Don't anybody dare call him a cunt". To
" Nobody can prove that he is incompetent". To
" I know he really loves the club" to
" I wish he would leave on a high but I don't want him embarrassed".
Now what is left is.
" I secretly wish he would win the treble and shut these fucks up". At which point he would go back to line 1.
" I won't hear a bad thing said about him".

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

The amusing part is watching Letters slow, incremental descent from blind devotion to pretend distant detachment.
It started with " I won't hear a bad thing said about him" to
" Don't anybody dare call him a cunt". To
" Nobody can prove that he is incompetent". To
" I know he really loves the club" to
" I wish he would leave on a high but I don't want him embarrassed".
Now what is left is.
" I secretly wish he would win the treble and shut these fucks up". At which point he would go back to line 1.
" I won't hear a bad thing said about him".

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Going back to Gutenberg's New Worlde Almanac, published c.1440, I notice you said:

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Originally Posted by YeOldeGlobalgunner

I love Arsene Wenger!

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And now you want him sacked :haha:

:doh:

Make up your mind.

#1000InternetPoints

I invoke the Shaggy defence
"It wasn't me"

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Going back to Gutenberg's New Worlde Almanac, published c.1440, I notice you said:



And now you want him sacked :haha:

:doh:

Make up your mind.

#1000InternetPoints

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:haha::haha:

Interesting to see the absolute meltdown at Barca over their transfer window. Lose star players? Fail to bring in the players the fans want to see? And this is with a club that has won titles and CLs and competes at the very top level every season. The fans know that to ease off for just a second gives the advantage to their rivals. And Barca chiefs are out explaining and apologising and trying to placate the fans.

The cunts at our place? Lying as usual. According to Le Cock, who has competed for fuck all in a decade, it was everyone else's fault they raked in a profit during our most important transfer window in years. Catalyst for change? Same old same old. Lucky this lot have Arsenal fans to answer to, rather than Barca fans. Can you imagine?

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This is a club remember where the manager sets his own (modest) goals, fails to meet them, but is kept on anyway. This is a club where under-achieving players are rewarded with bumper contracts that make them unsellable. This is a club where Yaya Sanogo recently found gainful employment for four years.

Sanchez challenged the mediocrity, and must be gotten rid of as a result. Good riddance. Please leave Alexis, and allow Arsenal to sleepwalk to a seventh-placed finish in peace.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...surprise-dont/

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

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Because he welches on it, and deliberately exaggerates things. Things are bad enough without someone picking away at the carcus. It's as annoying as the devoted followers of Wenger who make shit up to fit their narrative.

I don't particularly want or need to have an inquest into what fans thought 5-10 years ago, what exactly does it achieve. You know what your opinion was, I know what my opinion was. And yet Zim seems to have a time machine he hasn't told anyone about where he thinks he can go back and correct the mistakes of the past in the sense of people's rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Wenger, first of all its crying for the moon as I remember people ripping him to shreds in a post season q and a back in 2009 over signing Mikael Silvestre. There's always been been those who have critiqued the Wenger approach, obviously it was going to take time for more and more people to be convinced.
Second of all even if every fan was against Wenger years ago would it have made the difference we think it might?

Don't get me wrong I'm not sure where Letters is coming from about a lack of nuance, we aren't in a situation that requires nuance. It's blatant to anyone that if you don't think he should be manager anymore you have some bizarre agenda.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Because he welches on it, and deliberately exaggerates things. Things are bad enough without someone picking away at the carcus. It's as annoying as the devoted followers of Wenger who make shit up to fit their narrative.

I don't particularly want or need to have an inquest into what fans thought 5-10 years ago, what exactly does it achieve. You know what your opinion was, I know what my opinion was. And yet Zim seems to have a time machine he hasn't told anyone about where he thinks he can go back and correct the mistakes of the past in the sense of people's rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Wenger, first of all its crying for the moon as I remember people ripping him to shreds in a post season q and a back in 2009 over signing Mikael Silvestre. There's always been been those who have critiqued the Wenger approach, obviously it was going to take time for more and more people to be convinced.
Second of all even if every fan was against Wenger years ago would it have made the difference we think it might?

Don't get me wrong I'm not sure where Letters is coming from about a lack of nuance, we aren't in a situation that requires nuance. It's blatant to anyone that if you don't think he should be manager anymore you have some bizarre agenda.

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Wasn't it Letters that decided to dig deep into archives of GW along a few of the other mods and Emirates bringing up what Zim would say about Gilberto?

If you find it annoying, you don't have to engage or attempt to challenge his posts every time. Even when there is an attempt to congratulate the team on a good result or celebrate a win on the thread, Letters is quick to take a swipe and drag out old stuff which takes the conversation down a level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Wasn't it Letters that decided to dig deep into archives of GW along a few of the other mods and Emirates bringing up what Zim would say about Gilberto?

If you find it annoying, you don't have to engage or attempt to challenge his posts every time. Even when there is an attempt to congratulate the team on a good result or celebrate a win on the thread, Letters is quick to take a swipe and drag out old stuff which takes the conversation down a level.

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Seconded.

Zim has a certain way of presenting his opinions, as do I, as do all of us, but you can scan back and you'll see he doesn't initiate attacks on other posters and his targets are relevant. Wenger. The board. The players and sometimes those absolute fuckhead Wengerites who, yes, are entitled to their own opinions but they don't get a pass for being fucking stupid. Zim takes the piss out of Wenger, Letters takes the piss out of Zim. There is a HUGE difference in that. In fact Zim often tries to diffuse conflict by posting a reasonable and non-inflammatory response even when under the most vigorous abuse. Whereas Letter's style is far more likely to be a rush and flee, one line backstabs when he thinks it will attract attention. Zim concerns himself with Arsenal and its many woes, whereas Letters seems to use the place as a venue for amusement and trolling. Just my opinion. But also correct.