Match Reaction vs Fulham 10/11/12

[QUOTE=LDG;218930]

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

I'm not starting any BS matey. I'm fed up with Wenger too. He's a fucking mentalist!

But a new manager will not change a thing (in the long run at least).

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Look. In the grand scheme of things most Arsenal supporters accept we cannot defeat the almighty trioka of ManC, ManU and Chels, but we could at least try giving them a game on the pitch instead of pitching up and capitulating on the spot which even Norwich would not do. What I think most people expect is that we hold on to 4th and do it with some semblence of dexterity. I tell you any of 12 among the remaining 17 managers not at the big 3 clubs will be able to show enough competence to do that. I exclude Big Sam and Mark Hughes in that both of whom I hate with a passion.

If the team pull in the same sort of performance as we've seen over the past few weeks at next weeks derby game, then I'm sure a few more people will undersand why we need a new manager. The attitude and performances we have grown used to seeing us simply unacceptable. We have problems at Board level but I say a better manager could do more with the resources Wenger is given. This team has no passion, no discipline and you can see how poor Wenger is every time the team step out on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Look. In the grand scheme of things most Arsenal supporters accept we cannot defeat the almighty trioka of ManC, ManU and Chels, but we could at least try giving them a game on the pitch instead of pitching up and capitulating on the spot which even Norwich would not do. What I think most people expect is that we hold on to 4th and do it with some semblence of dexterity. I tell you any of 12 among the remaining 17 managers not at the big 3 clubs will be able to show enough competence to do that.

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With the current squad, of course! That team is more than capable....and realistically, given another 20mil, should be challenging for the title.

But this is the biggy.

When the players, the board will want to sell off for profit leave (see Chambo, Walcott, Wilshere, Cazorla, Giroud etc etc), in each transfer window. There is an expectation from the board, that another manager will spend less than we sell.

Put anything other than a top draw manager in charge....and you will not get quality....you will get real awful shit, the like of Joey Barton et al. And we won't be able to sell them for a profit....do you see the horrible fate that will behold if we don't get a top draw manager?

You're seeing a short-term fix as the solution. And right now, there just isn't a long term one.

The big fix is what is needed, and it is the one thing nobody can achieve.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Kindly list them, or at least a few

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Finding a new manager, for one. Which creates a whole raft of issues around how that manager will get on with the board and the players and rest of the staff.

It could create unrest amongst the players who are loyal to Wenger (hard to say right now how big a problem this will be right now, a few years ago it would have been a bigger problem).

We don't have much to lose any more and if Wenger goes then I won't be as sad about it as I would have a few years ago but it's not a magic bullet and everything will be fine once he's gone. We'd still have a board who are content with 4th place and we'd still not be able to compete with the top 3 financially.

at least it might look like we're trying on the pitch. which matters. a lot.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Finding a new manager, for one. Which creates a whole raft of issues around how that manager will get on with the board and the players and rest of the staff.

It could create unrest amongst the players who are loyal to Wenger (hard to say right now how big a problem this will be right now, a few years ago it would have been a bigger problem).

We don't have much to lose any more and if Wenger goes then I won't be as sad about it as I would have a few years ago but it's not a magic bullet and everything will be fine once he's gone. We'd still have a board who are content with 4th place and we'd still not be able to compete with the top 3 financially.

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There is no new manager who is in sync with his board right from the start. As long as the manager is achieving the clubs expectations whether they be staying in the league, mid table finish, Europa, CL qualification or winning the PL title. Problems only start when these objectives are NOT being met. Arsenal s unique problem is that the manager IS meeting the boards expectations but not that of the fans. The only reason people rant here is that we dont agree that we cannot and therefore should not even try to compete with the top 3. What we are now seeing however is that we are not even able to compete with the middling teams like Everton, Newcastle et al. At our current rate we are just as likely to end up 12th as 4th. the problems are on the pitch not in the board room. We should have beaten Fulham, Norwich and Sunderland with a moderately competent manager like Martinez of Wigan, and if we had an excellent manager like Klopp, or Guardiola we would be sitting on maybe 25 points even with this current squad.

As for players being loyal to Wenger, we have seen that the quality ones are mosdef Not loyal as they all leave ASAP. The likes of Djourou, Squillaci, Fabianski, Ramsey, Diaby, Rosicky et al, Well they all love Wenger and would be understandably distraught if he were to leave.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

There is no new manager who is in sync with his board right from the start. As long as the manager is achieving the clubs expectations whether they be staying in the league, mid table finish, Europa, CL qualification or winning the PL title. Problems only start when these objectives are NOT being met. Arsenal s unique problem is that the manager IS meeting the boards expectations but not that of the fans. The only reason people rant here is that we dont agree that we cannot and therefore should not even try to compete with the top 3. What we are now seeing however is that we are not even able to compete with the middling teams like Everton, Newcastle et al. At our current rate we are just as likely to end up 12th as 4th. the problems are on the pitch not in the board room. We should have beaten Fulham, Norwich and Sunderland with a moderately competent manager like Martinez of Wigan, and if we had an excellent manager like Klopp, or Guardiola we would be sitting on maybe 25 points even with this current squad.

As for players being loyal to Wenger, we have seen that the quality ones are mosdef Not loyal as they all leave ASAP. The likes of Djourou, Squillaci, Fabianski, Ramsey, Diaby, Rosicky et al, Well they all love Wenger and would be understandably distraught if he were to leave.

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The problems are on the pitch AND in the board room, IMO. As you say, the board seem to have set top 4 as their expectation level. That in itself seems like a problem to me. Competing with the top 3 is very difficult but we certainly should be trying and we should be a lot closer. The board seem content enough to see us finish top 4 every year, keep making profits on player sales and trust that Wenger is good enough to keep us up there.

For all his faults Wenger has met that target every single year. Are you seriosuly suggesting that manager who has delivered that every year isn't even a moderately competent despite the huge resources some clubs have and the amounts of money teams like Liverpool and Spurs have spent to try and unseat us?

Wenger is becoming a problem at the club but he's not the only one. Replacing him with another manager will not fix all our problems.

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Originally Posted by LDG

You think the objectives will be football based? I wouldn't be suprised if Ivan Gazidis took over as manager.

Or Tony Blair.

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I laughed out loud at the Tony Blair suggestion, very funny.

Then I stopped laughing and got worried. You shouldn't have said that. I know Kroenke doesn't come here, but what if he did?

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Originally Posted by Letters

The problems are on the pitch AND in the board room, IMO. As you say, the board seem to have set top 4 as their expectation level. That in itself seems like a problem to me. Competing with the top 3 is very difficult but we certainly should be trying and we should be a lot closer. The board seem content enough to see us finish top 4 every year, keep making profits on player sales and trust that Wenger is good enough to keep us up there.

For all his faults Wenger has met that target every single year. Are you seriosuly suggesting that manager who has delivered that every year isn't even a moderately competent despite the huge resources some clubs have and the amounts of money teams like Liverpool and Spurs have spent to try and unseat us?

Wenger is becoming a problem at the club but he's not the only one. Replacing him with another manager will not fix all our problems.

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The board's ambition isn't even top 4. They already said they could cope without CL football. Think about that. What does "cope" mean? It has to be related to finances again because dropping further down the league and out of Europe is hardly coping. There are only 3 clubs with big finances we can't match, so what football excuse could we have for dropping to 5th? This board couldn't give a shit about football, everything they say leads to that conclusion. They have also said they want Wenger to stay for life. By that I assume they mean the life of Kroenke's tenure because after that why would he give a shit? Of course Kroenke wants him to stay. It's like the owner of a bank. If he has a great manager that not only balances the books but also makes a profit then why on earth would he be replaced? And why would the owner give a shit about the customers? It's about the money and personal gain after all.

The only way we get rid of Wenger is if Kroenke goes. Or Wenger decides he wants to go himself. To achieve either the fans will have to deliberately damage the
club so it becomes a cost rather than a benefit for Kroenke. This is where they have us by the balls, no real fan will want to harm the club.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

The problems are on the pitch AND in the board room, IMO. As you say, the board seem to have set top 4 as their expectation level. That in itself seems like a problem to me. Competing with the top 3 is very difficult but we certainly should be trying and we should be a lot closer. The board seem content enough to see us finish top 4 every year, keep making profits on player sales and trust that Wenger is good enough to keep us up there.

For all his faults Wenger has met that target every single year. Are you seriosuly suggesting that manager who has delivered that every year isn't even a moderately competent despite the huge resources some clubs have and the amounts of money teams like Liverpool and Spurs have spent to try and unseat us?

Wenger is becoming a problem at the club but he's not the only one. Replacing him with another manager will not fix all our problems.

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no but if it can solve some then it makes it all a little easier.

it may even backfire but until we try, we'll never know. i'd rather that than watch us roll over and die every week.

wenger has to leave at some time, so why not now.