The Bitter Truth?

I'm not really sure you're onto anything with the whole staff thing, zombie.

Going off the 2012/13 accounts for both clubs, your wage bill for both staff and players was £20m higher than ours (not including social security and pension costs - £135m and £116m respectively) and we seem to employ, on average, 10 fewer players and training staff than you do. Our accounts don't break it down, but yours showed you had 64 training staff.
What I would say is that we employ an additional 60 or so part time (less than 20 hours per week) coaching and scouting staff that doesn't seem to be included in those figures, for example a consultant nutritionist who works a couple of days a week, whereas yours doesn't mention whether it includes both. Though frankly I can't imagine that amounts to a massive amount of money in any case.

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Originally Posted by Dein-machine

We posted a loss last year on our P&L accounts - so did virtually every other big team in Europe if you want to take player spend into the equation. Arsenal's cash reserves are bigger than those of most of the other premier league teams put together. When you buy a £30 mill player you will immediately see revenue in the form of shirt sales, increase in season tickets etc but the player becomes a £30 mill asset which can either appreciate or depreciate. It increases the value of the company & can be used as a means to borrow ( should we need to ), just like any other business.
Our biggest overheads are our wages - approx £150 mill per year + stadium repayments = £19 mill per year. Our turnover last year I think was approx £250 mill. That turnover doesn't include our new kit & other sponsors. I'll let you do the maths, but bearing in mind this has been happening for years ( since 2002 ) & Wenger has managed to spend just as much as he has sold in that time, you should see why we aren't & haven't been short of money - its all a fabrication which enables Wenger to repeatedly try & show us how he can win the league with his basement buys - Arsenal fans paying the highest ticket prices in Europe to allow Wenger to fuck us over year after year with the blessing of the board.

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:gp:

Dein Machine :bow:

Quite surprised that this has become a financial argument. For me, the reason why I am no longer interested in talk of how much we have to spend is that 2 clubs - Everton and Liverpool - have shown that arguments about Arsenal's cash reserves are facile. That is part of the watershed for me. Never before have teams with their own financial concerns pushed us so hard.

Financially, it is a disgrace that AFC has encouraged a situation where we make money for billionaire shareholders who have invested nothing on the playing side. But it is IMHO a sign of how diminished we have become as a club that we plead poverty to excuse a lack of ambition, and a lack of success.

If you look at the cold, hard facts - we have finished pretty much where we should have done in terms of financial resources for the past decade. Yet we praise our manager for achieving parity. I believe that Wenger has not exceeded expectations. He has met them. And in his biggest spending season he is in danger of performing below what should be expected from a club of our stature.

I have a fondness for Wenger now - but I have become disenchanted by the way in which he has milked our goodwill for recurring seasons.

Also. Has their ever been a football team in history that has asked their own fans to applaud corporate efficiency ahead of success on the pitch?

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Originally Posted by selassie

Excellent post :gp:

My thoughts on this are that whilst it's not entirely Wenger's fault, he is largely to blame for the state of the current team, he built the team it's his mess. I personally don't feel he can achieve anything more than the annual 4th place scramble irrespective of whether he is given large funds or not. 4th place scrambles are not good enough for a club of our stature and financial muscle, we should be aggresively challenging for honours now.

My personal opinion on our financial situation having read up on it in the past is that we have always had a budget per say, but have choosen not to spend, we have been very sensible with the funds. We (Arsene) is cautious at the best of times, we were/are awash with money and he didn't spend much in the summer...with a limited budget, early Emirates years, Arsene didn't spend a penny.

Finally, I do believe a lot of these rules and policies have been self-enforced. Whether that is right or wrong is up for debate.

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The 'bitter truth' question is that given the praise that we have received for planning and forsight re the Emirates Stadium - with a guaranteed 64K attendance at every match do we really believe that post 2005 we have been so far behind what we could afford at Highbury that we have sold the crown jewels every year but last - when basically we had none?

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Originally Posted by IBK

Quite surprised that this has become a financial argument. For me, the reason why I am no longer interested in talk of how much we have to spend is that 2 clubs - Everton and Liverpool - have shown that arguments about Arsenal's cash reserves are facile. That is part of the watershed for me. Never before have teams with their own financial concerns pushed us so hard.

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Agree with a lot of your post but I would point out that neither Everton or Liverpool have been in Europe this year. As well as Liverpool have done this year, they'll find it hard to repeat it next year with the added strain of a CL campaign, especially if someone makes a big enough bid for Suarez, someone is bound to try and turn his head. Everton will be in the Europa league (if not the CL!) and again that will add strain to their squad. Kinda agree that 4th is about par for us but I don't think achieving it every year like Wenger has is as easy as some people on here seem to think.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Agree with a lot of your post but I would point out that neither Everton or Liverpool have been in Europe this year. As well as Liverpool have done this year, they'll find it hard to repeat it next year with the added strain of a CL campaign, especially if someone makes a big enough bid for Suarez, someone is bound to try and turn his head. Everton will be in the Europa league (if not the CL!) and again that will add strain to their squad. Kinda agree that 4th is about par for us but I don't think achieving it every year like Wenger has is as easy as some people on here seem to think.

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Given it's taken us 5 years to even get close, I'd have thought that would be quite obvious.

http://le-grove.co.uk/2014/04/09/you...on/#more-19006

Pretty shocking regarding our 'use' of video analysis.

Nothing shocks me anymore about Arsene`s Arsenal. We are a shambles of an organisation bent to the whims of one individual and with an owner so laid back he may as well be horizontal and six feet under

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Nothing shocks me anymore about Arsene`s Arsenal. We are a shambles of an organisation bent to the whims of one individual and with an owner so laid back he may as well be horizontal and six feet under

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Its just bad tbh. This manager is actually nicking a living! what does he do for a man who gets 7m a year? if he doesnt sign the right players, doesnt prepare well for the big games, doesnt win any trophies and cant motivate his players then surely its time for him to resign.