Match Reaction QPR 1-2 Arsenal

If a new manager comes in they'd need some time to adapt a few seasons perhaps, but once they did (providing it was a good manager), I'm pretty confident they'll outperform Wenger. He's not doing a good job, the basic errors he makes are shocking to be honest, 4th place or not his achievements since 2006 are average at best.

You can't expect a new manager to come in and change things just like that, this club is all about Wenger and has been for a long time, it's an unhealthy situation.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You say 'fair enough' to that but go on to talk about the City game and upcoming Cup game as if they'll be 'significant' in some sort of way if we win. It's just shifting goal posts. We've beaten Bayern and Dortmund recently. We've beaten Barca some years back and I remember hearing a similar train of thought each time. From the fans and team. "Well, if we can beat ........., it proves we can one of Europes best' or whatever bollocks people want to attach to that one moment. Why is it significant?

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No game is significant with Wenger, we've gone years losing to top sides consistently, yes we beat City in one game (when they were not in great form it must be said) but it amounted to nothing, the manager is incapable of making his team kick on. In the past a big win again a top side would have given the team great confidence and belief and would have probably led to a title charge whilst playing great football (if well positioned), now we're just going through the motions, playing average football and generally looking very unconvincing even if we do end up with a win.

We dont need to wait for some game, event or milestone in the
future to gauge where this club is heading with Wenger.

The body of evidence is already sufficient. We know exactly where we are going if we stick with him. There is nothing more to learn.

This club has changed its ownership, it's Board it's CEO, it's medical team, it's chicken balti pie recipe, it's assistant manager, it's stadium, it's buying strategy, and hundreds of players.

But nothing will change until it gets rid of its manager.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You say 'fair enough' to that but go on to talk about the City game and upcoming Cup game as if they'll be 'significant' in some sort of way if we win. It's just shifting goal posts. We've beaten Bayern and Dortmund recently. We've beaten Barca some years back and I remember hearing a similar train of thought each time. From the fans and team. "Well, if we can beat ........., it proves we can one of Europes best' or whatever bollocks people want to attach to that one moment. Why is it significant?

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It's not shifting goalposts. We beat Dortmund and Bayern in games which didn't really matter. The Bayern game was a great shot in the arm but we caught them cold when they were 3-0 up, they got a bit complacent and we gave them a real scare. The Barca game was awesome, and it was the first leg, but we didn't finish the job.

I can't remember the last time we won a really big game, especially away from home, in a game like this when it really mattered.
This season we've beaten City away - it's the first time we've won a big away game in a while. Last year we won the Cup - first time we've won a trophy in far too long.
If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games.

I agree we shouldn't read too much into individual games or moments but that argument works both ways, the Monaco result was awful but these things happen to every club. The issue at Arsenal is it happens too often and it happens in these big games with wearying regularity. So I do see Monday's game as a bit of a litmus test. I agree we shouldn't go overboard about it if we win but it would be a good sign. IMO it's shifting the goalposts far more if people say we 'always' bottle these big games and then dismiss good results as one offs. You can't have it both ways.

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

it's chicken balti pie recipe.

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Wenger out :fury:

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Originally Posted by Özim

No game is significant with Wenger, we've gone years losing to top sides consistently, yes we beat City in one game (when they were not in great form it must be said) but it amounted to nothing, the manager is incapable of making his team kick on.

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We've won every league game but one since that game :shrug:

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Originally Posted by selassie

Well I am of the opinion that we will only go so far with Wenger in charge and I think we are pretty much at that level now. Wenger for me is far too rigid in every area of his management style to move this team forward.

IMO Our lack of progress has nothing to do with lack of money and the moneybags clubs ahead of us. It's all to do with Wenger and his flawed methods in regards to building the squad and his flawed tactical approach to the big games.

He may not be incompetent I'll give you that, but he certainly isn't a progressive pragmatic manager with the right ideas to move this team forward.

When we replace him we should be aiming for a top class manager with a proven record on delivering, we should identify where wenger is going wrong and I think we all know where and we should be looking at bringing in a manager who has a track record of delivering success and getting the very best out of players. We have a fairly decent squad now, we need someone who can come in, organise them and take them to the next level, I accept we need investment in areas but we are not a million miles away, not with a top level manager in charge. Wenger is not that man, that much is clear.

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I agree with pretty much all of that apart from the bit in bold, I'd say it's a bit of both.
IMO we should be ahead of where we are but I don't think we'll ever have it easy while the billionaire-fueled clubs are allowed to run riot.
Since they got going the only team who have managed to wrest the title from their grubby paws is Utd under Fergie - IMO he's the GOAT, that last season they had no right to win it with that squad. Since he left they've not looked close to winning the title again.

Wenger needs to have a better team than everyone else in order to win the title - he's not someone who can make a team more than the sum of its parts. So I can't see us winning the title under him again. But I don't think there are many managers out there who could win the title for us in the current climate. Not saying there aren't any, but some of the managers touted as successors on here have not consistently delivered.

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's not shifting goalposts. We beat Dortmund and Bayern in games which didn't really matter. The Bayern game was a great shot in the arm but we caught them cold when they were 3-0 up, they got a bit complacent and we gave them a real scare. The Barca game was awesome, and it was the first leg, but we didn't finish the job.

I can't remember the last time we won a really big game, especially away from home, in a game like this when it really mattered.
This season we've beaten City away - it's the first time we've won a big away game in a while. Last year we won the Cup - first time we've won a trophy in far too long.
If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games.

I agree we shouldn't read too much into individual games or moments but that argument works both ways, the Monaco result was awful but these things happen to every club. The issue at Arsenal is it happens too often and it happens in these big games with wearying regularity. So I do see Monday's game as a bit of a litmus test. I agree we shouldn't go overboard about it if we win but it would be a good sign. IMO it's shifting the goalposts far more if people say we 'always' bottle these big games and then dismiss good results as one offs. You can't have it both ways.

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:doh:

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If we win this game it will be a sign that we can step up in these big games.

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I'll keep this short because it's obvious this isn't sinking in.

If beating the big teams were some sort of precursor to our progress as a club, shouldn't we have made more progress in Europe by now? During the Cesc era we were beating the best and even managed a CL final. Fact is, we've gotten worse in the Champ League even though we've beaten title holders and runners up.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you saying the same thing about the Bayern game being some sort of confidence boost and meaning something when Zim was it was a nothing game? Now it's funny how you're switching the goal posts and saying that game wasn't significant. Funny that.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you saying the same thing about the Bayern game being some sort of confidence boost and meaning something when Zim was it was a nothing game? Now it's funny how you're switching the goal posts and saying that game wasn't significant. Funny that.

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Yes, it was a confidence boost. Our final 10 games of the season after that we W8 D2 L0 after that which helped us to a top 4 finish. So the result wasn't completely meaningless, but we didn't go through to the next round so in other ways it didn't mean as much as it would had we done so.
It doesn't always have to be one extreme or the other.

Don't selective quote, answer the other part.