Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

See

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Originally Posted by LDG

Besiktas - We struggled through CL qualification 1-0 on aggregate with some really poor football. If their strikers weren't dogshit, we would have gotten bungled.

Leicester - Drew 1-1 against the newly promoted whipping boys. We were awful

Dortmund - Got outplayed by a woefully out of form Dortmund, possibly one of the worst performances this year for application and preparation

Southampton (Rumbelows Cup) - Got banged out of the league cup in the first round

Spurs - 1-1 at home against a side who were really struggling. We didn't turn up and spurned a great chance to get our season going

Chelsea - 0-2 after last season, you would expect we'd be right up for this. No. We bottled it again, and had it not been for poor finishing on Chelsea's part, we would have been trounced again. The result was very flattering on us.

Hull - 2-2 looked like a nailed on thrashing when Alexis netted early. Then we proceeded to gift them two goals, and only just about managed to get level through Welbeck at the end. Was there, and it was shite.

Anderlecht - 3-3 Three up at half time, and another Arsenal collapse saw us give away three second half goals. Shocking

Swansea - 1-2 Same old, same old. No respect for the opposition. Fucking dire football, which then was repeated in....

Man Utd 1-2 at home against a shambolic Utd team there for the taking, just like Spurs were earlier in the season. We just gave it to them on a platter.

Stoke 2-3 again, we should have known what was coming at that shit hole. After all, it happens every year. And we got another gutless performance, and let fucking Peter Crouch (Peter Fucking Crouch) score in the first minute. 0-3 down at half time!! Against Stoke!!

Saints 0-2 same again. Gutless, rubbish, insipid performance

Spurs 1-2

Monaco 1-3 (only two weeks ago)

Enough rubbish for you??

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Not enough evidence.

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Originally Posted by AFC Leveller

Not enough evidence.

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Well, it isn't. Few if any of those are humiliations and you can cherry pick any team's results like I have with Chelsea and do the same.

He cherry picked 14 results, that's impressive Cherry picking tbf.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well, it isn't. Few if any of those are humiliations and you can cherry pick any team's results like I have with Chelsea and do the same.

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I don't give a monkey's about Chelsea (and even if I did, I'd ask you to look where they are in the table)

I want this Arsenal team to perform to it's full potential, and eradicate the perennial failure to be where a club of our standing should be. We have the team, therefore, we should be doing much better. And only one man is responsible for that.

I hold no ill will towards Wenger. It's just time to go, as nothing has changed. And unless I'm completely wrong (and I'd love to be proved wrong), we'll carry on doing exactly the same, year on year.

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Originally Posted by LDG

And unless I'm completely wrong (and I'd love to be proved wrong), we'll carry on doing exactly the same, year on year.

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Well, I guess the question is: is this yet another false dawn or is there actually a change in quality and mentality which will see us sustain our recent form over the course of a season and thus seriously challenge next year.

I've suggested a few things which may indicate a change: we won the Cup last year, we're back in the semi-final this, we've beaten both Manchester clubs away, one in a Cup Quarter final - the exact sort of game where we traditionally crumble and I think you're being harsh dismissing that, that was only their 3rd home defeat this season. If we beat Chelsea then it will be another sign that we can stand up and be counted in games against teams we should be rivalling.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well, I guess the question is: is this yet another false dawn or is there actually a change in quality and mentality which will see us sustain our recent form over the course of a season and thus seriously challenge next year.

I've suggested a few things which may indicate a change: we won the Cup last year, we're back in the semi-final this, we've beaten both Manchester clubs away, one in a Cup Quarter final - the exact sort of game where we traditionally crumble and I think you're being harsh dismissing that, that was only their 3rd home defeat this season. If we beat Chelsea then it will be another sign that we can stand up and be counted in games against teams we should be rivalling.

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Can we somehow incorporate making posts 'favorites' on here? I would love to have that ability. Why? Because I am 200% sure you looked at some false dawns every season and thought that this just may be it. I would love to go back and do some research but 13,500 posts is a lot to look through!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well, I guess the question is: is this yet another false dawn or is there actually a change in quality and mentality which will see us sustain our recent form over the course of a season and thus seriously challenge next year.

I've suggested a few things which may indicate a change: we won the Cup last year, we're back in the semi-final this, we've beaten both Manchester clubs away, one in a Cup Quarter final - the exact sort of game where we traditionally crumble and I think you're being harsh dismissing that, that was only their 3rd home defeat this season. If we beat Chelsea then it will be another sign that we can stand up and be counted in games against teams we should be rivalling.

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May, might, could....

The overwhelming evidence, every time we've started getting optimistic, is that we'll fluff our lines. I really am hopeful that we'll finally, after all this waiting, make an assault on the major prizes and consistently challenge the moneybags clubs.

The evidence of past failures, and the patchy/poor form up until the last few months says otherwise.

My point is, that we already should be there. I think we all know that if Wenger hadn't found his Coq, we probably wouldn't have had this moderate success of late. And that really was a stumble into luck, rather than judgement of a player he thought was dead a buried. There are still major questions over his man-management and tactical nouse....and that won't change because he's still stubborn. So that will prove his undoing when it comes to crunch time.

Say we were in a position to challenge Chelsea at the end of April, and we come up against them. I think we all know what will happen.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Can we somehow incorporate making posts 'favorites' on here? I would love to have that ability. Why? Because I am 200% sure you looked at some false dawns every season and thought that this just may be it. I would love to go back and do some research but 13,500 posts is a lot to look through!

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Why are you completely ignoring the reasons why I've said there may be a difference? :lol:

Wenger is slow to adapt at times but he does do so. I'm as worried about his unnecessary gambles in the transfer market as much as anything else. Going into the season the way we did was never sufficient for a convincing title challenge and imo it was quite needless, negligent even. A back up CB is nowhere near as problematic an issue to address as lacking the basic quality in the first team.

So what if you end up with a player you don't want for the next 10 years......we already have players in the squad we don't necessarily want.

Had Gabriel arrived last summer, we might well be looking at a title challenge this season. Mertesacker could have been hooked when he was struggling as could have Chambers when he was having his difficulties had we had Gabriel half a season before we signed him.

We are now an interesting situation because when the season ends there is no glaring hole to plug. You'd ideally want someone in to compete and compliment Coquelin who are superior to Flamini and Arteta and in an ideal world a world class centre forward but those are finer details. Giroud has made considerable strides forward though so the position doesn't require the same attention we would have given it before.

If Wenger isn't quite so behind the ball with squad preparation I'm happy for him to stay. We've relinquished possession in enough games to be convinced that we are willing to tweak our game to get the results. As we showed against West Ham the flowing football doesn't have to be a thing of the past either.