Better season

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes, said in a time when he was under pressure to deliver trophies having gone years without one.
But he repeatedly highlights the importance of winning trophies, he's merely making the point that a trophyless season isn't necessarily a complete failure.
And he belittles the League Cup in those quotes, not the FA Cup.

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Splitting hairs as usual. The only one pontificating what Wenger thinks here is you, other people are simply stating their own opinions. The FA cup is a more prestigious cup than the League cup but only in as much as coming 2nd is more prestigious than coming 3rd in the PL. The only position that matters is coming 1st. Maybe you think we had a better season than City who came 2nd and won nothing? Yes we are just behind Chelsea who won the PL and that tiddlywink cup.

No but he said finishing third is better than winning a domestic cup and he's already listed both cups low on the prioritity list in the past. He's also said which is harder to achieve so it's not just from a business perspective either.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

The only one pontificating what Wenger thinks here is you

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People do it all the time on here :lol:
But when it's rhetoric about how Wenger doesn't care about winning or whatever then no-one picks anyone up about it because it fits in with the general mood on here.

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The way you are waving the FA cup around I wouldn't be surprised if you reckon that what with coming 3rd and winning the FA cup, we had a better season overall than City who came 2nd in the PL

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We definitely had a better season than City :blink:
You seriously think that finishing 2nd (4 points ahead of us) and winning nothing is better than finishing 3rd and winning the FA Cup?
What, actually, is the big difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd? I don't remember Man City's 2nd place parade.

There wouldn't be a 'general mood on here' if Wenger was delivering results that match the resources he has at his disposal.

If Arsenal was a club of the same stature as Swansea then we'd all be singing from the rafters right now. 3rd place and the FA Cup - get out of here, what a season! Amazing manager, look what he has managed to achieve.

But we aren't a club of the stature of Swansea. We're supposedly one of Europe's elites. Yet we haven't won anything of major significance in a decade and we've often had our arses handed to us by rivals we are supposedly on par with.

The explanation/ excuse for this is we are victims of financial doping and can't compete with the volumes of cash the likes of the chavs and gypos dump into their teams.

Yet we were in a position this season to finish above one of those dopers, we had it in our hands. The end result was failure, yet again. So the tired old excuse can persist even though it is no longer valid. This is all certain fans have left in their bag of apologies for Wenger's self-evident underachievement. He has certainly achieved in areas the fans don't give a fuck about - delivering big value to shareholders, keeping big cash flowing into the club. But he has failed dramatically and repeatedly on the pitch. Monaco this year was the latest in a long line of examples.

This manager is not good enough to manage this club. That's what the facts tell us. The FA Cup doesn't even enter the reckoning because we aren't Swansea, are we?

If we're still arguing over the fine points of progress after a decade waiting then it's time to give it up. 12 points behind the champions, still? At this rate of progress it will take us another decade to get to touching distance.

Opinions are fine, the record is what speaks the truth though. And Wenger's record isn't good enough for a club of this stature.

It isn't. Look at it.

We have the 4th biggest resources, we finished 3rd :shrug:
And we won the FA Cup which is more than City or Utd (two of the clubs with bigger resources than us) managed.

EDIT: That was in response to "delivering results that match the resources he has at his disposal".

During Wengers reign at Highbury we won our league a couple of times, went unbeaten one year & very nearly won the Champions League. Then the stadium move. Did we:
A, Move to increase our spending power to enable us to become one of Europe's Elite clubs or:
B, Move to increase the clubs income to make our shareholders even richer than they already were.

If you think the answer is B, then he has been a master & should remain employed forever. If you think the answer should be A, then he has failed miserably & should have been replaced years ago.

Its down to the individuals opinion of why we left Highbury. My opinion is that I heard with my own ears Danny Fitz & Wenger tell us how this move was to push us onto European domination, so its an easy decision for me.

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Originally Posted by Letters

We have the 4th biggest resources, we finished 3rd :shrug:
And we won the FA Cup which is more than City or Utd (two of the clubs with bigger resources than us) managed.

EDIT: That was in response to "delivering results that match the resources he has at his disposal".

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Facilities, squad, unquestioning backing of the board, and plenty of financial resources.

It's not just a cash thing, as we saw when we moved clear of the gypos and would have finished above them had we not collapsed.

Business end of the season:

Chavs W3 D2 L1 Pts 11
Gypos W6 Pts 18
Us W2 D3 L1 Pts 9

Big games

Chavs 0-0
Mancs (and a very shitty bunch of mancs at that) 1-1

Anyone who thinks the FA Cup suddenly turns that into an acceptable finish to the season is making excuses for the manager.

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Originally Posted by Letters

People do it all the time on here :lol:
But when it's rhetoric about how Wenger doesn't care about winning or whatever then no-one picks anyone up about it because it fits in with the general mood on here.


We definitely had a better season than City :blink:
You seriously think that finishing 2nd (4 points ahead of us) and winning nothing is better than finishing 3rd and winning the FA Cup?
What, actually, is the big difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd? I don't remember Man City's 2nd place parade.

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Generally I would agree with you that we had a better season than City. I just threw that out there to test the waters. But in reality If I saw a City fan I wouldnt go bragging that we are a better team than they are. The league is the true determinant of quality. So yeah 3rd+Cup is marginally better than 2nd or no cup, but only for the nice shiny Cup in the boardroom. We are not a better team than City because they showed once again that when push came to shove at the tail end of the season they did what was needed while we as usual blinked in the face of opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Letters

People do it all the time on here :lol:
But when it's rhetoric about how Wenger doesn't care about winning or whatever then no-one picks anyone up about it because it fits in with the general mood on here.


We definitely had a better season than City :blink:
You seriously think that finishing 2nd (4 points ahead of us) and winning nothing is better than finishing 3rd and winning the FA Cup?
What, actually, is the big difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd? I don't remember Man City's 2nd place parade.

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The rhetoric on here isn't 'Wenger doesn't care about winning'. That's just wilful ignorance on your part. Wenger has made clear what he deems a priority to this club and that’s what some posters take issue with. In this thread, you’ve said you’ve said the following;

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But, as a fan, and surely as a player, it feels better to be lifting and parading a trophy than finishing top 4 and qualifying for the CL.

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I’ve pointed out, with Wenger’s own words, how he doesn’t think like the fans or players. He puts CL qualification over a domestic trophy and that’s the difference from your view along with some fans and players. He doesn’t see the domestic cups as a bigger achievement. It helps explain the barren run and why he never put pressure on himself to go for a domestic trophy in the past. It’s where you get yourself into a tangle because you put up this staunch defence of Wenger everytime. If I could drag up old comments when the whole 4th place is a trophy debacle started, I wouldn’t be surprised if you defended Wenger and played down the cups importance.

George Bush doesn't care about black people.