Top 6 Mini League so far:
Liverpool, 8pts (played 4, lost 0)
Tottenham, 5pts (3, 0)
Arsenal, 5pts (4, 1)
Man City, 3pts (2, 1)
Chelsea, 3pts (3, 2)
Man Utd, 2pts (4, 2)
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Top 6 Mini League so far:
Liverpool, 8pts (played 4, lost 0)
Tottenham, 5pts (3, 0)
Arsenal, 5pts (4, 1)
Man City, 3pts (2, 1)
Chelsea, 3pts (3, 2)
Man Utd, 2pts (4, 2)
We lost to liverpool :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
I have no idea what you're talking about :whistle:
It is relevant. NQ and others, with some justification, think we can't win the league because Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
That's a valid viewpoint but I'm wondering whether wins in either/both of those games would have started to change that viewpoint or whether they'd just have expected us to cock something up further down the line regardless.
11 years since we last won it. There is a clue in there somewhere. We always find a way to klutz it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You know the answer to that already. Nobody will believe until we've actually gone and done it. We've had every single scenario under the sun with this team. Experienced players, money to spend, new assistant coach, new defenders, gone on to win the FA Cup twice...the springboard effect we've all hoped for just hasn't happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I can't remember anyone saying we could win the league under Wenger at the start of the season, pretty sure that included you too Letters, which is why you were saying we need someone new. I don't think anyone will reassess things unless we are in with a realistic shout at the start of April. We've been in similar positions quite a few times at this point, even up to Feb/March. For now though I'm happy enough seeing us in the mix and taking points where would typically lose them. There does seem to be more resilience in this team but whether that translates into real killer mentality later in the season, I've no idea. That said, no one team has shown they are ready to run off with the league yet either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I'd have settled for strong performances in BOTH games and clinching the top spot in our CL group. But I already knew we wouldn't get that because I'd seen how weak the performances were in non-pressure fixtures against mediocre opponents leading up to tis period. I'd also seen what we are capable of when we played the chavs. So what I was looking for was some indication that Wenger could take the positives and feed those, rather than fall back on consolidation and his cautious, averages approach to the season as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The old saying goes take each game as it comes, but Wenger doesn't do that. He takes each game as a part of an overall season where the season's goals are paramount. That might sound sensible but it constantly gives him an out for the poor performances, the lack of ambition and fight in key fixtures. Because there's always the next game in the sequence to make amends, to bring the average back on track. To secure that overall 4th or higher place result. I don't believe champions operate on that level. Champions peak for each challenge and every competitive event is viewed as a challenged with its own merits. Then when you take the combination of these individual challenges you end up with a sequence of performances that complete your season.
So the performances are hugely important indicators. I don't see much value at all in nicking 3 points off a Hull or a Watford because if you had to nick the points in the first place then you have a problem. That's not to downplay the challenge of each game in a competitive league, on the contrary, being up for each of these individual challenges and not taking opponents lightly and always being prepared regardless of the opposition, not fielding insultingly weakened teams, not downplaying the significance of a competitive challenge simply because that challenge occurs in a minor cup, not making these assumptions that Wenger makes and almost always backfire on him, that's what builds a competitive season.
Right now we have a good enough team to secure a top 4 spot without that team having to be competitive at the level you would expect of serious champions. I think most of these players are spoiled kids and need to be led, guided even forced into being at the peak of their abilities at the right moments. That's the job of the manager but if he has a philosophy of, oh well, never mind, there's always next week, then that's going to transmit right through the team and the individuals. Thankfully we have key individuals that can pull our arses out of the fore when Wenger has inflicted complacency in the majority. Alexis with his lung bursting efforts (sounds like he wants to leave and I'm not surprised), Koscielny with that extra sprint and stretch to get that last ditch tackle in and just about prop up a defensive unit that Wenger so terribly neglects.
Wenger is the problem. This little patch of games was a test and we have failed in the same manner as all his teams have failed in the last decade. It doesn't really matter who is in the team because enough of them seem to thrive on the philosophy of the man in charge. There's always tomorrow. This is why we often have to go behind in a game to suddenly play. This is why we can go 80 minutes without a shot on goal and then suddenly, as if by magic, we can play. This is the basis for our glorious runs that just about see us sneak back into the top 4. Here is why we can really stick it to the very top teams from time to time and ALMOST beat them, coming out instead with a glorious failure. It's all flattery to deceive because underneath it all there's Wenger's philosophy and it never goes away.
This season is done, we just saw the exit polls and now we just have to wait for the counting. We'll get top 4 but it won't be the top spot because we don't have a manager who can drive the players at that competitive level. Hell, he can't even compete with Ranieri at Leicester City FFS! That's not to say only Wenger is in this boat. There are plenty of frauds being paid sickening amounts of cash in return for their complacency. But only one of them gets to sit in the same spot taking the piss for two decades.
I'll say we can win the league when we're parading the trophy around North London on an open top bus. We even managed to finish 4th when the title race was deemed to be a two horse race. I used to think we were best of the rest in terms of money spent and available, then up pops Leicester to do what we could have done when the other clubs were not their best. We topped the league for most of the season not long ago and slipped to 3rd or 4th.
Right now the league doesn't look too bad, but I'm not at all convinced by most of our performances yet.
Agree with much of the above. I'm content enough while we're in the mix but while I think we have the squad to win it I'm not sure we have the mentality and that does come down to Wenger. I'm a bit conflicted about yesterday's result, on the one hand it wasn't a bad point and given our record up there and that it was a bit of a smash and grab I'll take it, on the other hand a win up there and/or against Spurs would have been 'a statement'. That said, had we won them people would still be anticipating a balls up later down the line.
I don't think any of us will truly believe until we've got the trophy in our mitts, I think we have a chance but there are 5 or 6 teams who all seem pretty strong this year so it's going to be an interesting race this year. I don't see anyone running away with it.