Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

It's anecdotal evidence of course, all i'm saying is that i've been to games at the beginning of our time at the emirates and recently and there was no noticeable difference in the level in the people leaving at the 80 minute mark. It doesn't matter if it's a midweek evening encounter or a saturday afternoon kick off

There is no excuse for starting the way we did last night, of course i don't blame that on anyone but the manager and the players

Would we still be performing like this if the fans got here on time, stayed to the end and got behind the team more?....quite probably but there's also an argument to be made that a more buoyant atmosphere does help the players. A one off example but i remember we were getting outplayed by Barcelona at home six years ago but even watching on tv the crowd were as noisy as i've ever known them to be and i think that filtered through to the players and it helped them go up that extra level.

That's not the same as blaming fans for the players performances, that's saying the crowd atmosphere does make a difference.

In 2006 when we first moved to the Emirates there was no where near the same negativity amongst the fan base (understandably the fans have been very patient over ten years for no real reward) but people leave out of a sense of habbit rather than what's going on, on the pitch. If it's an evening game and we're already comfortably winning.....that's fine....get home for work in the morning i get that. But on a saturday afternoon? really.....whilst i think TFL could have been a bit more helpful with making better access to drayton park and opening it up on matchdays......i've left the ground early once (2-0 home defeat to schalke) and usually make my way out at the final whistle and the difference for me in getting back to either highbury and islington and finsbury park is 10-15 minutes at most.

Now yes just to confirm i'm only basing this on my own experiences which yeah are probably about 10% of the overall games played at the emirates, but no i'm not in anyway trying to make excuses for Wenger what happened last night was on him and the team completely. And yes i do think the atmosphere will improve if he's not here next season, but at the same time i honestly wish our ground was more intimidating to away teams

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That's if you live in Central London. There are people that live on the outskirts of London traveling to games. From Surrey, Kent, Essex...and if you miss a particular train, you may be waiting 30 minutes just for the next one. Some people work weekends or have kids to look after. Nobody can judge. Also, the crowd atmosphere is separate to those that arrive late or leave early. We're talking about a small fraction leaving the ground, it's not the whole stadium. I agree with MO on the singing section but I wou;dn't be so quick to judge whoever has to leave early or arrive late.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Fans have been buggering off early ever since the move to the Emirates. There is definitely a new kind of fan attending games now.

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Happened at Highbury too. It may be more now but it didn't start with the move to the Emirates.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Would we still be performing like this if the fans got here on time, stayed to the end and got behind the team more?....quite probably but there's also an argument to be made that a more buoyant atmosphere does help the players. A one off example but i remember we were getting outplayed by Barcelona at home six years ago but even watching on tv the crowd were as noisy as i've ever known them to be and i think that filtered through to the players and it helped them go up that extra level.

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It does make a difference. A while back Wenger had a bit of a moan about the crowd. The club have spent years relentlessly marketing themselves at the more affluent, middle-class fan and pricing out the more traditional raucous support and that's what they've got.
:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

That's if you live in Central London. There are people that live on the outskirts of London traveling to games. From Surrey, Kent, Essex...and if you miss a particular train, you may be waiting 30 minutes just for the next one. Some people work weekends or have kids to look after. Nobody can judge. Also, the crowd atmosphere is separate to those that arrive late or leave early. We're talking about a small fraction leaving the ground, it's not the whole stadium. I agree with MO on the singing section but I wou;dn't be so quick to judge whoever has to leave early or arrive late.

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I live in mid essex, the 10-15 minutes i am referring to is the difference in the time it takes to get back to the nearest station from the Emirates. If you leave ten minutes before the end you will get there 10-15 minutes quicker than you would if you stayed to the end, now add to that the ten minutes between the time they do leave and the end of the match....30 minutes tops. Like i say i get that completley during mid-week, not on saturday afternoons though.

I have gone to the ground when i've had to go to work the next day, if i get back before midnight i'm doing well, all i'm saying is if you are consistently turning up late to games, leaving early and heading down for half time refreshments 5-10 minutes before half time how engaged are you really with what's going on, on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I live in mid essex, the 10-15 minutes i am referring to is the difference in the time it takes to get back to the nearest station from the Emirates. If you leave ten minutes before the end you will get there 10-15 minutes quicker than you would if you stayed to the end, now add to that the ten minutes between the time they do leave and the end of the match....30 minutes tops. Like i say i get that completley during mid-week, not on saturday afternoons though.

I have gone to the ground when i've had to go to work the next day, if i get back before midnight i'm doing well, all i'm saying is if you are consistently turning up late to games, leaving early and heading down for half time refreshments 5-10 minutes before half time how engaged are you really with what's going on, on the pitch.

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If you use the C2C you know that if you just miss one train, it could be a 30 minute wait for the next one. Same goes for Southern rail and that's if it's actually running.

But who are you or Moh to judge? That's your experience. People have other things in their lives going on. I don't think the players or manager care. It's not tied into noise levels.

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Originally Posted by Özim

This bloke :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOGCWvIL_0E

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Just seen this. :haha:

I'm sure AFTV must be paying him now to say the most asinine things.

When we pay both Ramsay and Giroud we lack fluidity, are static and easy to defend against. last night (first half) and the first half against Bournemouth were almost identical, we started poorly, made mistakes defensively and didn't provide any threat upfront (guess who started that game). We are a much better team when we play with a mobile forward, how long does the manager have to persist with Giroud and Ramsay before he realises they are just not up to it. Giroud is a good sub, he brings something different but when he is played from the start, we cannot start high tempo, we cannot play that high intensity game and it results in boring football along with negative results.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

If you use the C2C you know that if you just miss one train, it could be a 30 minute wait for the next one. Same goes for Southern rail and that's if it's actually running.

But who are you or Moh to judge? That's your experience. People have other things in their lives going on. I don't think the players or manager care. It's not tied into noise levels.

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You honestly don't think a player's confidence levels are going to change based on the atmosphere in home grounds?.....are our players so different from the rest of the players in the premier league in that respect.

I respect that people have better things to be doing, but seriously every game?.....like you say it's the more seasoned fans who go week in week out who are likely to be doing this.
All i'm saying is if it is the same people week in week out who are season ticket holders arriving late and leaving early would they not be better off giving in their season tickets, this is not just my opinion I worked with a guy who was an Arsenal season ticket holder for years used to meet him for drinks at the Bailey (before it closed) before games and it annoyed the hell out of him and he had further to travel than I did. And more than that it's not something that is particular to Arsenal, i've been to Anfield more than a few times as my brother lives up in Liverpool and the fans at the ground leave early and if you check the liverpool forums and vlogs they get just as frustrated with it.

People can do what they like at the end of the day, i just think it's a little bit pointless paying what is a lot of money and not even bothering to watch the whole 90 minutes.

And it's not even people like Moh, DT gets fed up with it as well....he blames the club as well for not doing enough to create the right atmosphere and again I think he's right.

I think DT is the last person i'd want to socialise with (though to be fair on him i wouldn't want to socialise with any of the muppets from Arsenal fan TV) but i'll give him his due, he's there week in, week out (he was one of the few of those lot who travelled out to Croatia for our champions league tie against Dynamo Zagreb) and unlike a few people on this board (and i don't mean you) the guy desperately wants to be wrong in his negative assessments.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Just seen this. :haha:

I'm sure AFTV must be paying him now to say the most asinine things.

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He's just entrenched, there is nothing Wenger could do that Ty would criticise him for. There are fans like that, they've bought into the Wenger mythos and they won't be dissuaded.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You honestly don't think a player's confidence levels are going to change based on the atmosphere in home grounds?.....are our players so different from the rest of the players in the premier league in that respect.

I respect that people have better things to be doing, but seriously every game?.....like you say it's the more seasoned fans who go week in week out who are likely to be doing this.
All i'm saying is if it is the same people week in week out who are season ticket holders arriving late and leaving early would they not be better off giving in their season tickets, this is not just my opinion I worked with a guy who was an Arsenal season ticket holder for years used to meet him for drinks at the Bailey (before it closed) before games and it annoyed the hell out of him and he had further to travel than I did. And more than that it's not something that is particular to Arsenal, i've been to Anfield more than a few times as my brother lives up in Liverpool and the fans at the ground leave early and if you check the liverpool forums and vlogs they get just as frustrated with it.

People can do what they like at the end of the day, i just think it's a little bit pointless paying what is a lot of money and not even bothering to watch the whole 90 minutes.

And it's not even people like Moh, DT gets fed up with it as well....he blames the club as well for not doing enough to create the right atmosphere and again I think he's right.

I think DT is the last person i'd want to socialise with (though to be fair on him i wouldn't want to socialise with any of the muppets from Arsenal fan TV) but i'll give him his due, he's there week in, week out (he was one of the few of those lot who travelled out to Croatia for our champions league tie against Dynamo Zagreb) and unlike a few people on this board (and i don't mean you) the guy desperately wants to be wrong in his negative assessments.

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Again, if people have families to get home and want to see before bed, that's their business. None of yours. Even if they don't, it's none of your business. It's a small fraction of people.

Also,the noise levels are separate from people leaving. You can’t honestly think the players notice the difference between 50,000+ fans making noise to a few 100 fans leaving at the end? Did they notice against Burnley when we had to win a last minute penalty? Or home against Southampton? I doubt it. We still went on to win the game. Heck, the fuckers hardly clap the fans when the game is over. Pointless conversation and fraction of the problems we have. I'm done discussing it.